Author Topic: Trade for Kawhi?  (Read 7517 times)

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Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2018, 06:54:46 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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all of the leaks were anti Irving though, especially the way the trade request was leaked.  They made Iriving look very bad.  If the leaks came from Irving they would have made him look better.  So when Irvong does interviews and says things like nothing ever came from me and most of it isn't true, I believe him because they made him look bad.

The Cavs are going to do whatever LeBron tells them to do, in this regard.   I seriously don't know why Gilbert just does not sell the team to LeBron.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2018, 07:42:18 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Kyrie, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford.

Rozier and Baynes off the bench.

If healthy, I would bet on that team vs Golden State ;D

Yes, if Kawhi is coming back in return, I'm willing to give up Jaylen Brown, the LaKings pick and additional draft picks plus matching salary fillers.  Don't get me wrong, I am really high on JB.  But Kawhi is already what we hope JB could become at his ceiling.

Kahwi is also only 26 this year.  Assuming his health checks out, we would have an in their prime team of Kyrie, Hayward, Leonard, Tatum, and Horford.  Steven's new 'lineup' of death would feature an extreme amount of two way talent.

Of course we are probably overreacting to this.  But it's already been reported that Kahwi has decided not to come back this year even though he has been medically cleared.  Make of that what you will.  It will come out soon enough if Kahwi is really unhappy about his situation.  Ainge probably has his ears to the ground.  Adding Leonard to the present roster would make us legit contenders next season.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2018, 07:48:29 AM »

Online Androslav

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Brown + LaKings pick + salary fillers for Kawhi.

Let's make it happen!
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2018, 07:54:43 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Oh by the way if Kawhi joins the Celtics, Lebron might just force his way out West.

Kawhi's career head to head record against Lebron led teams is 5-3.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=Q4xqU

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2018, 08:44:44 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Brown + LaKings pick + salary fillers for Kawhi.

Let's make it happen!
I doubt that would be enough to get Kyrie especially if the Lakings pick becomes the Kings pick. 

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2018, 08:56:11 AM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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Looks like he's going to be perpetually on the injured list. Shouldn't we be having this discussion on the 76er's forum?

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2018, 08:56:15 AM »

Offline iadera

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Brown + LaKings pick + salary fillers for Kawhi.

Let's make it happen!
I doubt that would be enough to get Kyrie especially if the Lakings pick becomes the Kings pick.

We already have Kyrie.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2018, 11:02:42 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since heís going to be a free agent. Oh wait, heís under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah thatís right. He canít choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.

He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs donít give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they donít commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. Thatís actually exactly what weíre trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We werenít even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.

If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.

Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.

Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We werenít on Kyrieís initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.

So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we canít trade for him? Give me a break, thatís ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we wonít be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since youíre not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we canít trade for a superstar.

And no, the spurs donít care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I donít know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving.  There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasnít traded.

Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here thereís no reason for him to publicly say he doesnít want to be here. So itís pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and thatís to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.

Itís difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know whatís actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrieís trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we werenít one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston.  David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...

Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?

Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrieís initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.

Iím not sure if you just canít accept Boston wasnít Kyrieís dream choice 100% of the way or what youíre really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements. 

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html

"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."

"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
Youíre posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like itís gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still donít know what youíre trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.

The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrieís trade demand went public, and we werenít on it. That list wasnít questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didnít want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.

Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They werenít realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldnít.

I donít know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didnít always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving.  You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either.  He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him.  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take

When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athleteís mouth to mean itís true, right? Got it. ::) Players donít just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports werenít true, Iím sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China.  It didn't come from.him.

Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer

I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.

But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis  :P ?

That's my $0.02
David Griffin thought Boston was on Irving's list

https://twitter.com/brohrbach/status/894637630192746497/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.celticsblog.com%2F2017%2F8%2F7%2F16109514%2Fdavid-griffin-includes-boston-celtics-on-kyrie-irvings-list-of-desired-teams

I know that. I watched the video and even created a thread about it back in August (until I realized others had created one so it got merged)  :P

But again, he never specified if Boston was high on his list or not. That's kind of my point. We don't really know, and so what I posted is just what my guess is.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2018, 11:03:56 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I heard on a podcast that if he gets out its to find a way back to California.
Well if you heard it on some podcast then it must be true. Especially since heís going to be a free agent. Oh wait, heís under contract? Then he must have a no trade clause. No? Oh yeah thatís right. He canít choose where he gets traded. This is real life, not MyCareer in NBA2k18.

He is only signed through next season. If SAS wants to maximize their return, they had better be sure that the team acquiring him would feel good about re-signing him. Lots of players give a 'list' of teams they would agree to be traded to. If he doesn't get traded to one of those destinations, he can just go there as a FA (provided one of those teams have the cap space) in 2019.
The Spurs donít give a sh*t about how the team acquiring him feels about re-signing him. They would only care about the package they are getting in return. The Celtics are going to open their treasure chest if it means getting a guy like Kawhi or AD, even if they donít commit on the spot about resigning in 2 years. Thatís actually exactly what weíre trying to do, and exactly what we did Kyrie. We werenít even on his first list of teams he wanted to be traded to.

If Kawhi wasn't happy with where he was being traded to, then he would likely leave after ONE season and that team would be left high and dry. That is why the Spurs would care - the team receiving Kawhi would be more likely to give up much more if they knew he wanted to re-sign.

Kyrie had TWO seasons left when he was traded and AD has TWO seasons left after this one. Also, the Cs were reportedly on Kyrie's list of six teams he would like to be traded to. When KG Danny began negotiations with Minny about KG, he first refused to re-sign here. It wasn't until we traded for Allen that KG gave an indication that he would stay.

Whether we like it or not, it does matter where Kawhi wants to go - both sides will basically only have a one-year try out before he can become a FA. If the Spurs trade a player of his caliber, they need to get the max return they can.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/21/kyrie-irvings-reported-preferred-trade-destinations-knicks-heat-spurs-timberwolves/
We werenít on Kyrieís initial trade request. That was the Knicks, Heat, Wolves, and Spurs. We still traded for him because it was a good deal, even though he certainly could leave next year.

So you hear some guy on a podcast say Kawhi might try to go back to California, and all of sudden we canít trade for him? Give me a break, thatís ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons why we wonít be able to trade for Kawhi, but him maybe wanting to go back to California is not one of them. Especially since youíre not even suggesting a team, simply a state. A lot of things can change in a year and a half, and this is one of the weakest reasons Ive ever seen of why we canít trade for a superstar.

And no, the spurs donít care about how the celtics would feel about re signing him. They only care about the package they are getting for him. I donít know why you cant see that. If Kawhi really forced his way out, they would accept the best offer for him, regardless of where that is and the probability of Kawhi resigning there.
that list wasn't leaked by Irving.  There were plenty of reports out there, that Boston was in fact one of Irving's preferred teams and was on his "list" the whole time, but that the Cavs were more reticent to trade him to Boston so the source leaking the names never leaked Boston.
Well there are tons of conflicting reports, especially after the entire saga and trade. Heck there are even still developing stories with the Kyrie trade, like the report that came out saying he would have knee surgery if he wasnít traded.

Obviously the Celtics want their fans to think Kyrie wants to be here, and once Kyrie was traded here thereís no reason for him to publicly say he doesnít want to be here. So itís pretty clear why all the reports about him wanting to be here the whole time, and play for Stevens came out, and thatís to benefit the celtics and Kyrie.

Itís difficult because we have so little information, and we barely know whatís actually going on. But the fact of the matter is that when Kyrieís trade demand went public, there were four teams on his list, and we werenít one of them. That list was just accepted for a couple weeks, and nobody questioned or denied it (including Kyrie), until we traded for him, and later we found out that conveniently he wanted to be here all along.
Boston was on a leaked list before he was traded to Boston.  David Griffin specifically mentioned Boston on several different occasions as a possible landing spot.
That shows where he might be traded, not where he requested to be traded...

Boston was mentioned as a possible landing spot for Tyreke Evans, does that mean he requested a trade here? Or even wants to be traded here?

Like I said before, there are a lot of conflicting reports. Fact of the matter is that when his trade request became public, we were not on Kyrieís initial list of preferred teams. If he really wanted to be here that badly, those reports surely would have been debunked as soon as possible so he could go where he wanted to go and put pressure on the cavs.

Iím not sure if you just canít accept Boston wasnít Kyrieís dream choice 100% of the way or what youíre really arguing..
That wasn't the tone of Griffin's tweets or statements. 

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/08/kyrie_irving_trade_rumors_2017_2.html

"He went to Dan Gilbert privately, told him that he thought he would be happier somewhere else," Griffin said. "The absolute worst thing this guy could've done is pretend to be all in and sink the ship from within. Most guys don't have the courage to do what he did. That's not youth and ignorance. That's a little bit more courage than people give him credit for. This is a guy whose list included really good coaching situations -- Brad Stevens and Popovich."

"The teams on his list -- Gordon Hayward in Boston and Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio -- he would be accompanied by other great players, so it's not like he's asking to lead a ragtag bunch," Griffin said. "He just wanted to put himself in a position, I think, where he could find out exactly what he has as a 25-year-old entering his prime."
Youíre posting one link about the opinion of one guy (who had already left Cleveland at that point) and acting like itís gospel being handed down from God himself. Again, I still donít know what youíre trying to prove. I hope you understand that in this day and age, there are going to be a lot of contradicting rumors from a lot of different people.

The facts we do have? A list of preferred teams came out when Kyrieís trade demand went public, and we werenít on it. That list wasnít questioned or denied by Kyrie or his people. As negotiations went on for the next several days, those were still the only teams that were leaked, and it was only later that the Celtics were added and it was learned Kyrie wanted to play for Stevens. The poster above said as well that Kyrie himself said he didnít want to come here initially, and it was only when DA contacted him that he wanted to come here. Maybe he can find an old link and your argument can be put to rest.

Maybe that's because Kyrie thought that wouldn't be realistic? Or even insulting? What contender would trade their 2nd best player to their biggest conference rival? That idea seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since that rival has a player at your position who just finished 5th in MVP-voting. Why would they be in front to make an offer?
It was very realistic. IT was significantly hurt and we needed a star. It actually made more sense than a lot of other teams, which is why it happened. And look at the wolves, who he did have on his list. They werenít realistic at all. They had just signed Teague to a $60 million dollar deal, so even if they wanted to trade him, they couldnít.

I donít know why some of you cant deal with the fact that he didnít always want to come here.
Except that list didn't actually come from Irving.  You can say he didn't deny it, but he didn't confirm it either.  He talked a lot here about how everything was coming from people that weren't him.  http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20745983/nba-kyrie-irving-explains-trade-request-more-first-take

When the former general manager of the Cavs speaks, with his name on it, I tend to believe him rather than some random unsourced leak that has its own agenda for making the leak.
And it has to be straight from the athleteís mouth to mean itís true, right? Got it. ::) Players donít just leak important trade demands straight from their twitter accounts. It can be from a different source, especially from a far more reputable source than the ex-gm who had quit a year earlier. If the reports werenít true, Iím sure Kyrie would have denied them when he was being asked about it
when the trade demand and list were leaked Irving was in China.  It didn't come from.him.

Griffin was still with the Cavs until free agency this summer

I'm just going to chime in, but it looked like from reports and everything, Boston wasn't on Kyrie's initial list ONLY because he figured Boston already had Isaiah who just had an MVP-caliber season and he didn't think going there would be a possibility.

But when he found out that Ainge and the C's were interested, it looked like he had Boston 2nd or 3rd on his preference list. He may have preferred the Knicks (pairing up with Porzingis) or the Spurs, although the Spurs were going to be difficult because of their salary cap issues (needing to dump quite a bit), and the Wolves had Teague at the time (and Butler). And idk, maybe the Knicks were high on Ntilikina? Or they didn't have enough to offer CLE outside of Porzingis  :P ?

That's my $0.02
I think most sensible people agree with this take. Some posters just have blinders on and like to think it happened their way, and their way only. Sorry to burst your guysí bubble.

I mean, to be fair, NO ONE has any idea. Not me, not even you.

As I had stated, it was my guess, or what I thought, not a legit report lol.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2018, 11:12:09 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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Looks like he's going to be perpetually on the injured list. Shouldn't we be having this discussion on the 76er's forum?
Good one.  ;)
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2018, 11:43:35 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?

I think Tatum is going to be special.

Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?

Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2018, 12:53:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?

I think Tatum is going to be special.

Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?

Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.
The Celtics will not trade Gordon Hayward unless he publically demands a trade.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2018, 12:56:38 PM »

Offline 18isGREATERthan72

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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?

I think Tatum is going to be special.

Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?

Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.

What?  That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2018, 12:58:36 PM »

Offline iadera

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Anyone think we could trade Jaylen brown + Gordo + non LA/SAC picks for Kawhi + salary filler?

I think Tatum is going to be special.

Kyrie, Smart, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford?

Throw in a top center from one of the next 2 drafts and this team is dangerous.

What?  That would be franchise suicide to trade the biggest FA we have ever signed within a year of signing them.

I'd do that for Davis, though. Actually, I'd do any trade that brings us Davis. Sorry, only Brad is off the table.

Re: Trade for Kawhi?
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2018, 01:20:22 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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I would do Brown, Yabu, Lakers and another pick for Kawhi.

Kyrie, Hayward and Kawhi are the new big 3...plus it would improve our defense.

I bet Ainge has already inquired about his injury and availability.