Author Topic: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj  (Read 3735 times)

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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2018, 10:23:18 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I think this is much ado about nothing. I believe Leonard is frustrated because he's not playing. This is why we hear Brad constantly talking about keeping Gordon engaged with the team - injuries are psychologically and emotionally draining. Pop will probably handle Leonard like he handled Aldridge and cooler heads will prevail.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 10:43:58 PM by RJ87 »
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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2018, 10:42:56 PM »

Offline azzenfrost

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Spurs is a mature organization. They'll be fine.
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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2018, 11:24:13 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think ESPN is trying to create a buzz and they just hired Woj. I'm sure they're paying him handsomely, and I know they want him to generate as many views as possible. Writers are now stretching by using anecdotes to connect dots that may or may not be there.

The other dynamic is that teams like the Patriots and Spurs are easy targets. No one cares about how much air was in Joe Flacco's football? Trouble with the Phoenix Suns doesn't quite have the same appeal as with the Spurs.

I don't buy it. Fiery competitors should be irritable when they're not on the basketball court. I bet Pop isn't always a day at the beach.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2018, 11:38:14 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

FWIW:  Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:

http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units

Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years.  Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.

But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.

Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway.   Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.

According to Basketball Referecne hes never played more than 27% of his times at SG. This discrepency may come from playing a lot with Rodney Hood who is of simlar size, but more often defends SG than Hayward did. Also, not sure I want a guy coming of a major ankle injury having to chase guards aorund the perimeter, especially not if the other guard is Irving who is below average defensively. That said I'd stll do it because that lineup is still really good. You coudl always just shift everybody up and insert Smart at the SG in crunch time situations anwyay.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2018, 12:40:04 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd.  Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.

Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.

I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 01:18:19 PM by celticsclay »

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2018, 01:16:55 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'm thinking that, with Kawhi likely hitting FA two summers from now, he's looking hard at the Spurs roster and realizing that, with an aging group of Parker, Manu, etc., and if they can't land another star FA (like a Lebron, or George, etc.), it's unlikely SAS stays in bonafide contention for long. Obviously with Pop, anything is possible, but he's (Kawhi) keeping his options open. Remember, it's not just the Rockets and Warriors, but up-and-coming teams like the Wolves, Pelicans (who could give them some trouble w/their size), etc. Oh, and the Thunder.

Still think there's less than a 5% chance he gets traded, but could he demand out this summer if Spurs have a somewhat lackluster playoffs and it doesn't seem they can land another star FA? Possibly.

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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2018, 01:23:35 PM »

Offline biggs

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I think this is much ado about nothing. I believe Leonard is frustrated because he's not playing. This is why we hear Brad constantly talking about keeping Gordon engaged with the team - injuries are psychologically and emotionally draining. Pop will probably handle Leonard like he handled Aldridge and cooler heads will prevail.

Totally agree with you.

So, how do we get Leonard? 😉
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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2018, 04:27:55 PM »

Online mmmmm

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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

FWIW:  Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:

http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units

Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years.  Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.

But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.

Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway.   Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.

According to Basketball Referecne hes never played more than 27% of his times at SG. This discrepency may come from playing a lot with Rodney Hood who is of simlar size, but more often defends SG than Hayward did. Also, not sure I want a guy coming of a major ankle injury having to chase guards aorund the perimeter, especially not if the other guard is Irving who is below average defensively. That said I'd stll do it because that lineup is still really good. You coudl always just shift everybody up and insert Smart at the SG in crunch time situations anwyay.

I would take the basketball-reference positional breakdowns with a grain of salt.  My understanding is that they are based on sub cards, which can be very misleading.  I.E., you often see two players come in at the same time as two go out and the announced substitutions make no positional sense.

Whether Hayward will have issues covering on defense due to the injury is always a possibility and would not be unreasonable to expect at first, but ultimately remains to be seen.   And is kinda irrelevant to his ability to play the SG position prior to this season.   

Hayward was an elite tennis player and was likely to play pro at that if not for a late high school growth spurt that suddenly made a basketball career real.  He has always had great lateral footwork.   If he heals well, then he hopefully will have it again.
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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2018, 06:05:18 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I'd actually consider a trade for some of their vets. C's could use the experience and Spurs could use less age.

Smart, Morris, Baynes and Yab
For
Ginobli, and Gasol.


Irving, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Gasol
Rozier, Ginobli, Tatum, Semi, Theis

Maybe try to use DPE on Ed Davis, Monroe, or Noel.
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2018, 06:18:17 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

FWIW:  Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:

http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units

Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years.  Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.

But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.

Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway.   Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.

According to Basketball Referecne hes never played more than 27% of his times at SG. This discrepency may come from playing a lot with Rodney Hood who is of simlar size, but more often defends SG than Hayward did. Also, not sure I want a guy coming of a major ankle injury having to chase guards aorund the perimeter, especially not if the other guard is Irving who is below average defensively. That said I'd stll do it because that lineup is still really good. You coudl always just shift everybody up and insert Smart at the SG in crunch time situations anwyay.

I would take the basketball-reference positional breakdowns with a grain of salt.  My understanding is that they are based on sub cards, which can be very misleading.  I.E., you often see two players come in at the same time as two go out and the announced substitutions make no positional sense.

Whether Hayward will have issues covering on defense due to the injury is always a possibility and would not be unreasonable to expect at first, but ultimately remains to be seen.   And is kinda irrelevant to his ability to play the SG position prior to this season.   

Hayward was an elite tennis player and was likely to play pro at that if not for a late high school growth spurt that suddenly made a basketball career real.  He has always had great lateral footwork.   If he heals well, then he hopefully will have it again.
 
 Ya I try to take everything with a grain of salt. But just looking at the numbers for guys like jaylen brown and all horford their splits seem to be reasonable between sg/sf for Brown and pf/c for Al. I'm also skeptical when when a guy says he's a position lower than he appears. Sf like to be called guards because it makes them look more skilled for projects purposes. Either way Hayward may very well be able to play SG, I just don't think it's wise to pencil him in without a Second thought. But for an MVP level talent you do it.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2018, 06:29:56 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If anybody thinks the Spurs are trading Kawhi, wait till I tell you about this awesome way to make money selling knife sets and makeup bundles door to door.
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Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2018, 07:49:57 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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If anybody thinks the Spurs are trading Kawhi, wait till I tell you about this awesome way to make money selling knife sets and makeup bundles door to door.

I'm listening...

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2018, 08:03:50 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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If anybody thinks the Spurs are trading Kawhi, wait till I tell you about this awesome way to make money selling knife sets and makeup bundles door to door.

I'm listening...

Danny just waitingfor the phone to ring......hello Pops ,  yes we can make a deal for Leonard .....sure ......lets talk ......Leonard would love CBS ball.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2018, 09:05:34 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd.  Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.

Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.

I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)

Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 02:54:42 AM by celticsclay »

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2018, 11:26:26 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd.  Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.

Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.

I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)

Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay or green have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow

It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.