Author Topic: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj  (Read 7494 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2018, 05:24:20 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15739
  • Tommy Points: 1386
San Antonio is 25-14 without Leonard this year (and with Pop).  I just don't see the Cavs, minus Lebron, even with Pop being 25-14 with the roster they have (and remember Parker has missed a bunch of time, Gay has missed a bunch of games, etc.).  I love Thomas and Love as pieces, but they are surrounded by a bunch of one dimensional role players and that dimension is by and large offensive oriented.  Thomas and Love are poor defenders, they would need to be surrounded by defenders to have any sort of shot at being better than mediocre at best.  The Spurs on the other hand have a MVP candidate in Aldridge, Parker (who has only played in half their games), Gasol (who is still very good), and then some more well balanced role players in Anderson, Green, Mills, Gay, and Manu.  That team is better than the Cavs with Thomas, Love, Smith, Korver, Thompson, Wade, Crowder, and Green.  There is nothing inconsistent in any of my statements.

Generally based on what you have said in discussing teams over the years is that the teams with the best players and star players win. The Cavs would have two guys you have said should be all-stars if healthy yesterday. You have them over a team with 1 all-star aldridge feels pretty inconsistent with your takes over the years on star players being what matters

 I also think your take saying Aldridge is an MVP candidate is a bit over the top. He is averaging 22 points and 8 rebounds with pretty average defense. Great comeback season? Sure
Comparable to what Lebron, Harden, Davis, Giannis, Curry etc are doing?...  (he is not even an all-star starter).

Also Tony and Manu are definitely declining just like Korver and Wade are. Parker was demoted to the Bench for the first time since he was a kid recently. Manu has some nice skills but is 40 now and can only play 19 minutes.  Gay hasn't played since December and it is unclear when he will be back.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2018, 06:24:34 PM »

Offline action781

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5217
  • Tommy Points: 609
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2018, 06:30:07 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2018, 06:31:35 PM »

Offline action781

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5217
  • Tommy Points: 609
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

If that's your biggest issue with this idea, then Kawhi guards SGs and Hayward guards SFs, problem solved.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2018, 06:59:00 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Tommy Points: 419
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year.  He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2018, 07:08:21 PM »

Offline keevsnick

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5515
  • Tommy Points: 549
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year.  He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways

Ya I don't know where you get that idea. Basketball reference for example doesn't have a single season with him at over 27% of his minutes at SG. He is almost always straight SF. Rodney Hood was the SG in most lineups with Hayward in Utah. Stevens does indeed interchange players, but you have to be able to guard someone. Hayward is a good SF defender, but against quicker SG he would struggle. A back court defense of Irving and Hayward would be a weakness.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2018, 07:15:58 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year.  He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways

Ya I don't know where you get that idea. Basketball reference for example doesn't have a single season with him at over 27% of his minutes at SG. He is almost always straight SF. Rodney Hood was the SG in most lineups with Hayward in Utah. Stevens does indeed interchange players, but you have to be able to guard someone. Hayward is a good SF defender, but against quicker SG he would struggle. A back court defense of Irving and Hayward would be a weakness.
exactly. It wouldn't be optimal at all for Hayward to play SG.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2018, 08:05:27 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Tommy Points: 419
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year.  He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways

Ya I don't know where you get that idea. Basketball reference for example doesn't have a single season with him at over 27% of his minutes at SG. He is almost always straight SF. Rodney Hood was the SG in most lineups with Hayward in Utah. Stevens does indeed interchange players, but you have to be able to guard someone. Hayward is a good SF defender, but against quicker SG he would struggle. A back court defense of Irving and Hayward would be a weakness.

Video games, the old Jazz depth chart and fantasy
http://www.nbalive.gg/16/players/6355-gordon-hayward
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jazz-sg-gordon-hayward-hits-game-winner-vs-cavs-wednesday/
https://www.facebook.com/SportsCenter/posts/959955444023298

I concede though that technically what you are using is a slightly better metric  :laugh:

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2018, 08:13:01 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5572
  • Tommy Points: 699
San Antonio is 25-14 without Leonard this year (and with Pop).  I just don't see the Cavs, minus Lebron, even with Pop being 25-14 with the roster they have (and remember Parker has missed a bunch of time, Gay has missed a bunch of games, etc.).  I love Thomas and Love as pieces, but they are surrounded by a bunch of one dimensional role players and that dimension is by and large offensive oriented.  Thomas and Love are poor defenders, they would need to be surrounded by defenders to have any sort of shot at being better than mediocre at best.  The Spurs on the other hand have a MVP candidate in Aldridge, Parker (who has only played in half their games), Gasol (who is still very good), and then some more well balanced role players in Anderson, Green, Mills, Gay, and Manu.  That team is better than the Cavs with Thomas, Love, Smith, Korver, Thompson, Wade, Crowder, and Green.  There is nothing inconsistent in any of my statements.

I agree the Spurs has a better cast, but not because of sheer talent alone. I for one think that the Spurs has a more balanced roster, and they are more disciplined and played hard., Now we don't know how much of the latter is because of Pop, or just how their GM put together their team.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2018, 08:17:29 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Tommy Points: 862
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue

LOL!

This deserved a Tommy Point.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2018, 08:23:39 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Tommy Points: 862
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

FWIW:  Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:

http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units

Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years.  Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.

But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.

Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway.   Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:31:46 PM by mmmmm »
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2018, 08:31:06 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Can you give me the long list of shooting guards that you think Hayward will have trouble defending? It's easy to say he can't defend a position, but when you stop and analyze the position I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find actual names that will give him difficulty.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2018, 09:26:26 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Can you give me the long list of shooting guards that you think Hayward will have trouble defending? It's easy to say he can't defend a position, but when you stop and analyze the position I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find actual names that will give him difficulty.
playing the 2 guard requires switching to guard the 1 at times. That’s why it’s a guard position for the most part.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2018, 09:35:36 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w

We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson.  I think Spurs would have to think about that one.  Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.

Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis

Could Kawhi even start at PF?  Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time

Can you give me the long list of shooting guards that you think Hayward will have trouble defending? It's easy to say he can't defend a position, but when you stop and analyze the position I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find actual names that will give him difficulty.
playing the 2 guard requires switching to guard the 1 at times. That’s why it’s a guard position for the most part.

The league requires switch-ability everywhere with the way the tempo is pushed/not allowing defenses time to set. However, based on your bolded statement then how is it even possible for players such as Redick, Ingles, Booker, Harden, etc. to be able to play the position? I think you're really underestimating Hayward's lateral quickness.

Re: All is not well in San Antonio according to Woj
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2018, 09:52:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd.  Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip