Author Topic: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?  (Read 2346 times)

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Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2018, 12:43:28 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2018, 12:49:58 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.

Gretzky is the GOAT of all GOATS.  He dominated his sport more than any player has ever dominated any sport.  Defense is played the way it is today because of him.  Goalies wear the size padding they do today because the only way to stop him from scoring was to wear larger pads.

Orr is an icon of Boston sports, and one of the top 5 hockey players of all time, but you won't find anyone outside of Boston sports fans that would ever claim he was better than Gretzky.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2018, 01:18:02 AM »

Online nickagneta

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.

Gretzky is the GOAT of all GOATS.  He dominated his sport more than any player has ever dominated any sport.  Defense is played the way it is today because of him.  Goalies wear the size padding they do today because the only way to stop him from scoring was to wear larger pads.

Orr is an icon of Boston sports, and one of the top 5 hockey players of all time, but you won't find anyone outside of Boston sports fans that would ever claim he was better than Gretzky.
That's just not true about how people feel about Orr outside of Boston. Real hockey enthusiasts see Gretzky and Orr on the same level with Orr being more transformstive to how hockey is played and Gretzky being how much hockey is dominated in the manner that Orr transformed it. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? For me its Orr.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2018, 03:58:04 AM »

Offline colincb

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1-2-3
Mays-Williams-Ruth
Gretzky-Howe-Orr
Brady-Brown-Montana
Russell-Jordan-James


None of these is an easy choice, you can pick some one else of these top 3 and not embarrass yourselves, and I won’t get into any back and forth troll fest if you idiots don’t agree.


The mods can lock the thread now.
This is all about money laundering.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2018, 06:17:20 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Skiing - the best woman of all time

Janica Kostelić
To become a top skier, you need money and snow. She didn't have one or the other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janica_Kosteli%C4%87

Most famous quote: “It seems the more difficult the conditions, the better I do.”

Even though I am a Croat (local-patriotism bias alert) I think she is the right choice for this sport. She had that true championship mentality and perseverance that is hard to find anywhere else.
I have seen her win at 14 in junior competition.
I have seen her win at 17 in senior competition.
I have seen her race without the stick - she finished 2nd that one. I guess she didn't want to disappoint the home crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOffj-h7-RE
I have seen her comeback each time after 10 knee operations. Better, hungrier still golden.
I have heard her brother, a world champion in skiing as well,
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivica_Kosteli%C4%87)
saying that she is on a different level than he is skiwise.
I have never seen her complain about anything - whether it is a loss, Croatia's poor standing in the FIS decisions, unperfect conditions or severe injuries.

Even though basketball player Dražen Petrović, is much more fabled than she is and almost all Europeans (not just Croats IMO) have a soft spot for him, I think there is a consensus in my country that she is the best Croatian athlete of all time. Also a product of our independent state (her father TBH), not Yugoslavian sports system. Born in a land without a real ski track, without skiing tradition, without money, her career and success are truly astonishing.

English trailer from the documentary about her and her family:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzHgeY-uu7I
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2018, 06:31:32 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Lance Armstrong in cycling.
His use of performance-enhancing drugs puts a big cloud over him being GOAT in cycling.
eh. Everyone doped. He did better while doping than everyone else. I think Barry Bonds should be in the hall too. He is one of the greatest baseball players ever. He was juicing, but he was better at it than anyone else while juicing and it's not even remotely close. In fact, I think Barry Bonds himself has a reasonable argument for GOAT.
In my book, to be the GOAT, you have to posses sportsmanship. Lance doesn't.
Including him in these conversations is degrading the other, true "giants".
"Everyone is doped" is not a true statement at all and is just watering down his failures as a professional athlete.
No place for these types on this thread IMO.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 06:59:23 AM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2018, 07:33:26 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT? 


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Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2018, 07:37:31 AM »

Online eja117

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Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2018, 08:39:14 AM »

Online eja117

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I look at the records/stats, but another major thing I look at was how far ahead of the next best guy was he, and then I look a little at the era they played in.

Like Babe Ruth...sorta a special case and a good illustration.  He was on his way to a HOF pitcher's career. Then mid career switches and changes the game as the best long ball hitter of all time. But look at how much better he was.  I think....in the year he hit 60 the next closest was Lou Gehrig with 47 and then the next was like 18.  He was more than 3 times better than the 3rd best guy. Then look at what it took to break 60.  Look at what it took to break his career record.  He would have had more had he not pitched, right? I realize there was no DH back then....yet...still.

Look at Secretariat.  Yes other horses have run almost as fast, but look how much he won by. He made the other race horses look like ponies.

Jim Brown. Almost certainly the best RB. Not only is he still in the top ten for all time rushing yards, but he did it when they played 12 games a year and he retired when he was 30.

But there are some downsides.....Otto Graham ....7 rings...but the league was like a third as big. So you gotta dock him

Bill Russell.....unfortunately the league in 1956 had 8 teams...by the time he finished it had 14. So you gotta look at other stuff. 2 time NCAA champion. Player coached those last two rings. Major high jumper. Olympic gold.  And he never got distracted by gambling or baseball or Nike.

Hockey is a tough one for me. I think Nick made very good points.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2018, 08:46:19 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport

The argument for Montana has come down to "well Joe never lost a superbowl". That is the one argument.

There are about 30 arguments why Brady is the GOAT. My favorite: he's not even done playing yet.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2018, 08:47:08 AM »

Online jambr380

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I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT?

I always just assumed that the best football player has to be a QB since it is the most important position. Jerry Rice would have been fantastic without Montana/Young (and dare I say Rich Gannon), but as much as he dominated, the game was never officially in his hands.

Running backs can have control of a team, but their longevity usually leaves something to be desired. I would say that is the case with Brown. Also, when a player that has never won a super bowl is often compared to you as being the best ever (Barry Sanders), that has to have an effect on this particular poll.

A player like LT (and defensive players in general) I suppose have a different argument; they are, afterall, the other 'half' of the game. Also, teams like Baltimore and TB have won SBs with less than stellar QBs. Still, though, as great as a defensive player is, his success is still highly dependent on the rest of the defense as a whole.

For this reason (and because I am a native New Englander!), I go with Brady. 8 SB appearances (hopefully 6th SB win) is unheard of and he has the resume to back it up.


Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2018, 08:48:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT?
Yeah this is where I'm at.  It is the same in baseball with hitters vs. pitchers.  I think goalies, defenders, and scorers are also harder to judge against each other in both hockey and soccer. 

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2018, 08:50:38 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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1-2-3
Mays-Williams-Ruth
Gretzky-Howe-Orr
Brady-Brown-Montana
Russell-Jordan-James


None of these is an easy choice, you can pick some one else of these top 3 and not embarrass yourselves, and I won’t get into any back and forth troll fest if you idiots don’t agree.


The mods can lock the thread now.

Yikes. You a jaguars fan?

I agree with this list, besides Russell. I think it goes Jordan-Kobe-Lebron. Please don't yell at me now!

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2018, 09:04:03 AM »

Online eja117

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Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport

The argument for Montana has come down to "well Joe never lost a superbowl". That is the one argument.

There are about 30 arguments why Brady is the GOAT. My favorite: he's not even done playing yet.
He lost other games that resulted in him failing to reach the SB as many times as Brady.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2018, 09:13:08 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Phil Taylor - Darts

Eddie merxx - time trial

Usain Bolt

Someone said Serena, but has she got clean air? Don't follow tennis

Maybe Lauren Jackson or Sue Bird?

Donald Trump



"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.