Author Topic: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?  (Read 2200 times)

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Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2018, 10:42:24 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Federer and Schumacher are ones that you didnít mention.
Schumacher was great but many people would argue Ayrton Senna was the best Formula1 driver.
I agree that Ayrton was freakishly gifted, but I think his premature death and thus lack of success compared to Schumacher makes him the lesser driver.

Schumacher at his peak is still the best Iíve ever seen convincingly

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2018, 10:42:26 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Lance Armstrong in cycling.
His use of performance enhancing drugs puts a big cloud over him being GOAT in cycling.
eh. Everyone doped. He did better while doping than everyone else. I think Barry Bonds should be in the hall too. He is one of the greatest baseball players ever. He was juicing, but he was better at it than anyone else while juicing and its not even remotely close. In fact, I think Barry Bonds himself has a reasonable argument for GOAT.
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Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2018, 10:57:59 PM »

Offline GC003332

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Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2018, 11:00:29 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Federer and Schumacher are ones that you didnít mention.
Schumacher was great but many people would argue Ayrton Senna was the best Formula1 driver.
I agree that Ayrton was freakishly gifted, but I think his premature death and thus lack of success compared to Schumacher makes him the lesser driver.

Schumacher at his peak is still the best Iíve ever seen convincingly
I'm a big Shumacher fan but the Ferrari was by far the dominant car in a few of his championship seasons. 

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2018, 11:03:46 PM »

Online nickagneta

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2018, 11:28:59 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2018, 11:40:59 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Big time sports like football, baseball, and hockey are harder to analyze who the best was because there are a lot more positions which makes it harder to evaluate who had the greatest impact of them all.

I believe Tom Brady is the best quarterback of all time, but does that mean he's the best football player of all time? It's hard to compare his impact to Jerry Rice or Lawrence Taylor, two players who are also considered the best to ever play but at different positions.

Babe Ruth is considered the greatest hitter of all time, but did he have a bigger impact on baseball then say Nolan Ryan?

Did Wayne Gretzky have a bigger impact on hockey then Martin Brodeur?

Note: I'm not as passionate about baseball or hockey as I am about basketball and football so I'm just naming names. Hopefully you guys are catching my drift.

With basketball, the players play on both sides, so it's easier to evaluate who the best was even if there are five positions in basketball. Comparing Michael Jordan and Lebron James may be tough because they are different players, but we atleast get to see how they played on both sides of the court.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2018, 11:59:01 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Brady, Ruth, Gretzky, Jordan. Ruth and Gretzky aren't far and away. Willie Mays played good defense as well and some prefer Gordie Howe.

So really only Brady and Jordan.

I don't care about the "sports".

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2018, 12:02:05 AM »

Online nickagneta

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Then you just just doesn't understand hockey or how much a player could transform a sport. Stop looking at the raw numbers. Gretzky was an awful defensive player. He couldn"t fight to save his life.

Orr could beat your ass. People were afraid of him. Orr was the best defensive player in the league. He was an 8 straight Norris trophy winnner, 3 time Hart trophy winner, a Conn Smtyth award winner and a two time scoring champion.

When he got the puck behind his net and brought it up and wove through whole teams to shoot and score, it was unheard of. It still is today. Orr was the GOAT

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2018, 12:04:37 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Then you just just doesn't understand hockey or how much a player could transform a sport. Stop looking at the raw numbers. Gretzky was an awful defensive player. He couldn"t fight to save his life.

Orr could beat your ass. People were afraid of him. Orr was the best defensive player in the league. He was an 8 straight Norris trophy winnner, 3 time Hart trophy winner, a Conn Smtyth award winner and a two time scoring champion.

When he got the puck behind his net and brought it up and wove through whole teams to shoot and score, it was unheard of. It stull is today. Orr was the GOAT

Sounds like Gretzky might not be able to make your first line b/c he's not a two-way player. Claude Julien, is that you?

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 12:18:44 AM »

Offline furball

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The only clear guy in the 4 majors is Ruth.  In basketball I would argue Russell, In Hockey, Orr.  And in Football...wait for iiiiit....Jerry Rice. 

Ruth you can't argue with.  If you look at what he did, when he did it, and the fact that he was also a great pitcher.  You can't touch him. 

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 12:27:23 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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The only clear guy in the 4 majors is Ruth.  In basketball I would argue Russell, In Hockey, Orr.  And in Football...wait for iiiiit....Jerry Rice. 

Ruth you can't argue with.  If you look at what he did, when he did it, and the fact that he was also a great pitcher.  You can't touch him.

Re: Ruth, not sure about that. He had great hand eye coordination, but was he really a great athlete? I would make the argument that Mays was a better athlete, even if Ruth was a better baseball player.

The same knock is on Brady. Greatest football player of all time, but is he the greatest athlete in NFL history? Wouldn't you think that someone like Jim Brown or Bo Jackson were better athletes?

It's an entirely subjective conversation.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2018, 12:33:04 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The only clear guy in the 4 majors is Ruth.  In basketball I would argue Russell, In Hockey, Orr.  And in Football...wait for iiiiit....Jerry Rice. 

Ruth you can't argue with.  If you look at what he did, when he did it, and the fact that he was also a great pitcher.  You can't touch him.

Re: Ruth, not sure about that. He had great hand eye coordination, but was he really a great athlete? I would make the argument that Mays was a better athlete, even if Ruth was a better baseball player.

The same knock is on Brady. Greatest football player of all time, but is he the greatest athlete in NFL history? Wouldn't you think that someone like Jim Brown or Bo Jackson were better athletes?

It's an entirely subjective conversation.
The question isnt who is the GOAT athlete. Its who is the athlete who is that GOAT in their sport.

All football players are athletes, but the best athlete isnt the best player. I can promise you that OP wasnt curious if people thought Brady was the greatest athlete to ever play football. He's the greatest football player to ever play football.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 12:35:50 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Then you just just doesn't understand hockey or how much a player could transform a sport. Stop looking at the raw numbers. Gretzky was an awful defensive player. He couldn"t fight to save his life.

Orr could beat your ass. People were afraid of him. Orr was the best defensive player in the league. He was an 8 straight Norris trophy winnner, 3 time Hart trophy winner, a Conn Smtyth award winner and a two time scoring champion.

When he got the puck behind his net and brought it up and wove through whole teams to shoot and score, it was unheard of. It still is today. Orr was the GOAT
I wont pretend to know much about hockey, so Ill defer to you here. Its just tough to look past those gaudy numbers.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 12:39:55 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
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