Author Topic: Government Shutdown  (Read 3341 times)

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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2018, 12:09:22 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I hate what is happening in Washington right now but can anyone on the right really be critical of those on the left now after the right's 6 years of obstructionist governing under Obama that included a government shutdown? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Just as much as I hate that people forgot that before it was  whataboutism for Obama it was for Bush by the left. The same story is just on alternating repeat and it drives me crazy that it keeps getting forgotten. Maybe both sides can wake up and elect an independent that will be focused on the correct solutions for the country instead of focusing on what will get them reelected.

Here are a few independents/moderates who could bring reason and confidence back to the WH:
John Kasich
Angus King
Joe Manchin
Mark Warner
Lindsey Graham
Rob Portman

King isn’t necessarily a moderate in my view.

I’d add a couple of ladies, Susan Collins and Heidi Heidkamp.   I wouldn’t vote for all of them, but they are mostly reasonable.



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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2018, 01:33:14 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I hate what is happening in Washington right now but can anyone on the right really be critical of those on the left now after the right's 6 years of obstructionist governing under Obama that included a government shutdown? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Just as much as I hate that people forgot that before it was  whataboutism for Obama it was for Bush by the left. The same story is just on alternating repeat and it drives me crazy that it keeps getting forgotten. Maybe both sides can wake up and elect an independent that will be focused on the correct solutions for the country instead of focusing on what will get them reelected.

Here are a few independents/moderates who could bring reason and confidence back to the WH:
John Kasich
Angus King
Joe Manchin
Mark Warner
Lindsey Graham
Rob Portman

King isn’t necessarily a moderate in my view.

I’d add a couple of ladies, Susan Collins and Heidi Heidkamp.   I wouldn’t vote for all of them, but they are mostly reasonable.
Agreed -- I like Collins and Heidkamp.   King generally ranks in the middle (to the right of most Dems) in terms of his voting record.  I know you're from Maine, so you probably have more insight on him.   Seems like a straight-shooting, honest, reasonable thinker to me. 

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2018, 01:57:23 PM »

Online nickagneta

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I hate what is happening in Washington right now but can anyone on the right really be critical of those on the left now after the right's 6 years of obstructionist governing under Obama that included a government shutdown? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Is this whataboutism?  It seems like that’s the new cry to shout down legit arguments.

To answer your question: it’s hyper-hypocritical by both sides.  But, Dems also deserve blame here, just like Republicans did before.

My proposal: a Constitutional amendment that severely limits CRs (maybe a max of two per term, up to two weeks each), plus a requirement that the budget be signed annually. Members of Congress during any session where a budget is not passed on time lose: their pay for the period of shutdown, a 2x loss of tenure for pensions, etc. during the shutdown time, and no campaigning activities for a period twice the amount of the shutdown, to be enforced immediately before their next election.

So, a 14 day shutdown equals 14 days pay (pro-rated upon days in session, rather than 365 days), a 28 day loss of tenure, and no campaigning for 28 days before their next Election Day.
Wasn't trying to be whataboutist. And what I should have added as a caveat is I meant the comment towards those in Washington and not for the general public, voters and CBers. And like Erik and others have pointed out, the shutdown in 2013 wasn't the first so Dems were hypocritical back then.

As I said earlier in the thread, both sides are to blame and I think its disgusting that they are using DACA and CHiP as bargaining tools. Those are people's lives they are playing with.

I love some of your penalties

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2018, 02:05:44 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Track record is relevant. It would be a lot easier for the Dems to make a concession on DACA if they knew they could count on the GOP to negotiate it in good faith. Sadly, past experience says this might be too much to hope for.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 02:19:48 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2018, 11:27:23 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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https://twitter.com/ChrisJansing/status/954838618593402880?s=17

Quote
OMB Director Mick Mulvaney: “I found out for the first time last night that the person who technically shuts the government down is me, which is kind of cool.”

He seems real broken up about it.

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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #80 on: January 21, 2018, 12:06:44 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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https://twitter.com/ChrisJansing/status/954838618593402880?s=17

Quote
OMB Director Mick Mulvaney: “I found out for the first time last night that the person who technically shuts the government down is me, which is kind of cool.”

He seems real broken up about it.

That's just...curious.

It's like some prison guard saying, "I just found out I'm the guy that gets to pull the noose".  Who finds that "cool"?

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #81 on: January 21, 2018, 12:20:31 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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https://twitter.com/ChrisJansing/status/954838618593402880?s=17

Quote
OMB Director Mick Mulvaney: “I found out for the first time last night that the person who technically shuts the government down is me, which is kind of cool.”

He seems real broken up about it.

That's just...curious.

It's like some prison guard saying, "I just found out I'm the guy that gets to pull the noose".  Who finds that "cool"?

That’s a hell of a political cartoon in the making. TP

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #82 on: January 21, 2018, 10:18:28 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Looks like Trump thinks this is a winning issue for him:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U-nm0vQwO5c

It is unfortunate politics as usual, but it is not the type of ad you release if you want to find middle ground.


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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #83 on: January 21, 2018, 10:41:50 AM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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Sun-kissed oaf John Kasich would be an awful president.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #84 on: January 21, 2018, 11:07:44 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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Sun-kissed oaf John Kasich would be an awful president.
I disagree.  For me Kasich was by far the most palatable Republican candidate and I very well may have voted for him over Clinton.
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2018, 11:44:10 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Saw this on Facebook, a comment on a video link (of Pres. Trump saying that a shutdown will be the President's fault) posted by a page called God...

Quote
So...some non-partisan facts:

The President is a Republican.

The House is controlled by Republicans.

The Senate is controlled by Republicans.

The party in control determines what bills come to the floor for a vote.

The Children's Health Insurance Program expired in September 2017.

The Republican House and Senate never brought a bill to the floor to vote on extending it. Not once.

President Trump, via executive order, revoked DACA protections several months ago. He gave Congress a deadline to fix the problem that he created completely on his own.

Congress failed to come up with a solution to the President's unprovoked actions.

Congress, which is run by Republicans, failed to address DACA, failed to address CHIP, and failed to address the budget, leaving essential government personnel, including the military, forced to function under months of a CR - continuing resolutions.

The President, who is a Republican, failed to outline ANY type of position on... well, anything... besides tax cuts for rich folks and corporations.

Today is the one year anniversary of Donald J. Trump being inaugurated. It is also the first time in American history that the government has shut down when one party has controlled all branches of government simultaneously.

No crazy pills. Just facts.

This has a point.
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #86 on: January 21, 2018, 11:54:50 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Its surprising to me that we're debating deporting a DACA or creating a path to citizenship when the initial problem of illegal immigration is still not solved. Do you also clean up the water from the overflowing toilet before shutting off the water? Whatever considerations you give to a DACA needs to be established after securing the border for good as to not have policy fuel more illegal immigration. I'm fine with keeping them here until then.
Not sure what you mean by "securing the border for good".  You're never going to be able to stop all illegal immigration.  DACA and the overall illegal immigration issue needs to be worked together.  There should be no issue with the policy fueling more illegal immigration because it would only apply to illegal immigrants that could prove they were already in the US before a certain date.

If you put an exception for one group of people, it stands a logical test that we'll repeat the same courtesy for the next batch. It's kind of like negotiating with terrorists in the sense that if you do it once you'll do it always. Best case scenario in my opinion is to secure the border as much as possible (shoot to kill if you have to) and then keep the DACAs and their families here, make them pay penalties, whatever taxes they didn't pay over their time but do not ever allow citizenship for them. We're partially to blame for their illegal immigration because we've been soft on it with this catch and release method. Just shoot them dead as you would a trespasser and they'll stop coming. They are not citizens and could be dangerous. We are only protecting our borders so no human rights violations.

Would your "shoot to kill" policy also extend to the large number if people over staying their visas?
I'm bitter.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2018, 12:05:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
This has a point.

One point you're ingnoring and the facebook post does not mention, guess just who voted against CHIP extension.

Quote
WASHINGTON - The U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday night approved on a temporary government funding bill that would avert a government shutdown on Saturday while reauthorizing the Children's Health Insurance Program for six years and suspending an Affordable Care Act tax on medical devices that several Ohio manufacturers oppose.

The measure to fund the government through Feb. 16, which was approved in a 230 to 197 vote, now goes before the U.S. Senate, where it faces an uncertain fate. If Congress and President Donald Trump don't approve spending legislation by midnight on Friday, the government will shut down for lack of funds

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/house_of_representatives_votes_1.html

Guess who voted in down in the Senate pretty much by party lines.   I like the facebook post but it ignores this fact.  Or should I say it admits it.

Besides we all know that people who get their news from Facebook cost Hillary the election and are misinformed.

https://www.recode.net/2017/9/27/16376502/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-donald-trump-fake-news

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2018, 12:09:18 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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Quote
This has a point.

One point you're ingnoring and the facebook post does not mention, guess just who voted against CHIP extension.

Quote
WASHINGTON - The U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday night approved on a temporary government funding bill that would avert a government shutdown on Saturday while reauthorizing the Children's Health Insurance Program for six years and suspending an Affordable Care Act tax on medical devices that several Ohio manufacturers oppose.

The measure to fund the government through Feb. 16, which was approved in a 230 to 197 vote, now goes before the U.S. Senate, where it faces an uncertain fate. If Congress and President Donald Trump don't approve spending legislation by midnight on Friday, the government will shut down for lack of funds

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/01/house_of_representatives_votes_1.html

Guess who voted in down in the Senate pretty much by party lines.   I like the facebook post but it ignores this fact.  Or should I say it admits it.

Besides we all know that people who get their news from Facebook cost Hillary the election and are misinformed.

https://www.recode.net/2017/9/27/16376502/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-donald-trump-fake-news
Both sides want CHIP extended and it should have been extended on it's own months ago.  However, it has been turned into a political football.  Much like pay for the military now is being used for political reasons.
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2018, 12:12:11 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Never has there been a time in our history where an a strong independent presidential candidate for 2020 could really have a legitimate shot at winning over the hearts and minds of the people. I would have gladly voted for a different qualified candidate outside the main parties this past election as I felt both choices were not the best...felt like I had to choose if I do to choose a side dish and the choices were cranberry quinoa or raw broccoli...

I guess it could be viewed as kind of cool to shut down something that is apparently not working on both sides of the aisle. Bizarre for that comment to be made assuming it was truly made.

Both parties under the scrutiny of fake news and me first attitudes are to blame for where we are today. At least it is a good time to start a side business with the new Tax plan...I am ready to start making more money and take advantage of this new tax system. My last successful business also flourished under Republican rule and came to a crashing hault under Obama(sold it).