Author Topic: Government Shutdown  (Read 3330 times)

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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2018, 12:31:39 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
My belief is that this is what President Trump and the GOP are hoping for.  Trump's historically low approval rating and the poor showing in special elections makes things look scary for Repubs in the midterm elections.  Creating a shutdown and casting all blame on Dems may be their best strategy for November.  We are witnessing politics at it's ugliest (from both sides).
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2018, 12:58:10 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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McConnell doesn't appear to have 50 votes from his own party for the House bill, so the impact of a filibuster is moot. The scuttled bipartisan deal reportedly had at least 56 - still not filibuster-proof but a lot closer.

Part of the issue is of course that Trump won't make his own position clear, presumably so he can exist in a superposition of taking credit for parts his base likes and blaming Congress for those they don't. Difficult for the Rs to whip their own caucus when the very base-popular President can turn on whatever they decide at the drop of a hat.

Very good point. I watched the WH Briefing, they just sidestepped the fact that McConnell can't get the votes on his own, throwing the blame at Dems. And your point about Trump fence-sitting (superposition, fantastic term I haven't heard since college physics) is well taken. Kind of part of his whole MO, 'Just win, and blame on others what you don't'.


Thanks. I genuinely - in this very specific context - feel bad for Congressional Rs.  They can make good faith negotiations (for once), find common ground for a bipartisan deal, and then have their own President stab them in the back because someone badmouthed it on Fox and Friends.  The erratic leadership and looming specter of a damaging public rebuke at any time for any reason is causing mass confusion and an inability to make "concessions" on policies both parties actually want in some form.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2018, 01:01:07 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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My belief is that this is what President Trump and the GOP are hoping for.  Trump's historically low approval rating and the poor showing in special elections makes things look scary for Repubs in the midterm elections.  Creating a shutdown and casting all blame on Dems may be their best strategy for November.  We are witnessing politics at it's ugliest (from both sides).

One of the lessons of the Obama admin for me is that everybody wrings their hands and gets angry at government shutdowns but ultimately they have very little impact on subsequent elections. Perhaps that was due to the Dems not pushing it hard enough last time but I think most non-partisan voters barely care and if they do tend to just hold everyone to blame.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I was angry at the Republicans when they did it. 



I will be angry at the Democrats as well. 

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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2018, 02:39:02 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Government shutdown?

Like permanently?

Where do I sign up?

The sooner the government disband the easier it will be for me to become King and make you all my subjects.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2018, 02:43:26 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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If the government shuts down, does that mean the pompous congressman lose all their special benefits etx?

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2018, 02:43:57 PM »

Offline blink

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This is what Trump tweeted back on 5/2/17

"either elect more Republican Senators in 2018 or change the rules now to 51%. Our country needs a good "shutdown" in September to fix mess!"

So who wants the shutdown again?

I personally hold the president and the congress (rep and dem) equally to blame for the shutdown.  It is all of them.  But to say none of this is Trump's fault is dumb.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2018, 02:58:11 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?

It's called the  Schumer ShutDown.

Military won't get paid, Fed Workers won't get paid, and The Dems Turned down a continuation of the Child Healthcare Insurance Program that 9 million AMERICAN children rely on.
They are holding out for a non budgetary DACA program that has a deadline in March.

Schumer and the democrats are putting non citizens ahead of Americans, just for political reasons. They should be ashamed of themselves.   Even if you don't like Trump, you should be offended with the Democrats "non citizens first" political strategy.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2018, 03:03:25 PM »

Offline FatKidsDad

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This is what the President had to say about the 2013 shutdown:

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369756-trumps-comments-blaming-obama-for-2013-government-shutdown-resurface
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2018, 03:37:00 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I feel for the Dreamers because its not really their fault and yet their lives are being used as a political football by both sides. They only know the United States as their country and home. Many have joined the military and have been putting their lives on the line for the security of this country. What do you say to them? "Thanks for risking your lives for America but we are going to deport you now."

Its inhumane and Washington as a whole should be ashamed for handling DACA in this manner.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 03:53:28 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2018, 03:44:40 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

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I feel for the Dreamers because its not really their fault and yet their lives are being used as a political football by both sides. They only know the United States as their country and home. Many have joined the military and have been putting their lives on the line for the security of this country. What do you say to them? "Thanks for risking your lives on the line for America but we are going to deport you now."

Its inhumane and Washington as a whole should be ashamed for handling DACA in this manner.
I get what your saying. But the dreamer , DACA, immigration has nothing to do with the budget.  Plus what's more important right now, ChIP Kids or illegal immigrants.  Instead of funding the government, the dems are using this as hostage.  Fund the government now, and then fight when the deadline for DACA hits in March. The Military and Fed responders should be paid.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2018, 03:46:39 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?

And what Lying Dicky Durbin and weasel Lindsay Grahm brought to trump would have allowed chain migration for these illegal immigrants , including their parents who brought them here illegally.

On a side note ...

The left says that these people didn't know any better because they were kids, yet think kids should be allowed to choose their gender.....


Lunacy

You are being consistent though, right?  I mean children aren't old enough to understand what gender they align with, but they ARE old enough to decide whether to illegally enter the US with their parents.

And BTW, many children were bought here at a time in life that no one would consider them responsible for the decision.   This takes only the smallest amount of compassion and absolutely does not require a bleeding heart to care about what happens with the "dreamers".  I think that's why 80% of Americans and sizable majorities in both parties favor a permanent solution including legal pathway for dreamers.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2018, 03:49:40 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

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This is what the President had to say about the 2013 shutdown:

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369756-trumps-comments-blaming-obama-for-2013-government-shutdown-resurface

So What!  T
It's sound like your more interested in Trump going down, rather than 9million legal  kids receiving The Child Health Insurance Program.

Those issues back in 2013 had to do with budgetary issues.  Right now, the dems are holding out for non budgetary issues like DACA. They won't fund the government unless they have a clean DACA deal which has nothing to do with paycheck. Trump can't do anything, if the Democrats are being unreasonable. 

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2018, 03:54:30 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I feel for the Dreamers because its not really their fault and yet their lives are being used as a political football by both sides. They only know the United States as their country and home. Many have joined the military and have been putting their lives on the line for the security of this country. What do you say to them? "Thanks for risking your lives on the line for America but we are going to deport you now."

Its inhumane and Washington as a whole should be ashamed for handling DACA in this manner.
I get what your saying. But the dreamer , DACA, immigration has nothing to do with the budget.  Plus what's more important right now, ChIP Kids or illegal immigrants.  Instead of funding the government, the dems are using this as hostage.  Fund the government now, and then fight when the deadline for DACA hits in March. The Military and Fed responders should be paid.

Yes, we've played this game from both sides now.  It was wrong to shut down the government in 2013 and it was a disaster.   I definitely understand the dems frustration and understand the doubt that everyone has that these important issues will be resolved the next time around if we buy a little more time.  But, you can't shut down the government.  It's bad politics and it's bad for people.

BUT... here's the thing... shame on all of them!    I thought Obama was a failed leader when it became clear that he was unable to bring the parties together.   Trump, in addition to all his other foibles, appears equally inept at leadership. 

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2018, 03:54:35 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?

And what Lying Dicky Durbin and weasel Lindsay Grahm brought to trump would have allowed chain migration for these illegal immigrants , including their parents who brought them here illegally.

On a side note ...

The left says that these people didn't know any better because they were kids, yet think kids should be allowed to choose their gender.....


Lunacy

You are being consistent though, right?  I mean children aren't old enough to understand what gender they align with, but they ARE old enough to decide whether to illegally enter the US with their parents.

And BTW, many children were bought here at a time in life that no one would consider them responsible for the decision.   This takes only the smallest amount of compassion and absolutely does not require a bleeding heart to care about what happens with the "dreamers".  I think that's why 80% of Americans and sizable majorities in both parties favor a permanent solution including legal pathway for dreamers.
DACA has nothing to do with the budget right now. If the Dems want to fight, they still have until March for the deadline.
The Budget that The Dems are shutting down the government for has a 6 year extension for children that depend on the Child Healthcare Insurance Program.

What's more important right now American Kids who need the CHIPS program or illegals.
Pass The budget and fund the government.  You still have time to negotiate DACA.

The Democrats are really blowing it right now.  Not a good strategy.