Author Topic: Government Shutdown  (Read 3332 times)

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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2018, 11:44:01 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2018, 11:49:34 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?

And what Lying Dicky Durbin and weasel Lindsay Grahm brought to trump would have allowed chain migration for these illegal immigrants , including their parents who brought them here illegally.

On a side note ...

The left says that these people didn't know any better because they were kids, yet think kids should be allowed to choose their gender.....


Lunacy
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 11:58:01 AM by rondohondo »

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2018, 11:52:33 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
You realize that DACA status does not confer immigration benefits, right?

It gives them the ability to stay here, despite having entered the country unlawfully.
That's not an immigration benefit. The fact that the government chose not to deport them doesn't give them any ability to "correct their status".

I hate to put words in people's mouths, but you'll have to explain what you mean by "take care of their status". Assuming it's not just, "Hey, we know that mom and dad brought you in when you were 2, but you're an adult now and you've had decades to go back to that country you've never lived in and whose language you may or may not speak".
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2018, 11:53:27 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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McConnell doesn't appear to have 50 votes from his own party for the House bill, so the impact of a filibuster is moot. The scuttled bipartisan deal reportedly had at least 56 - still not filibuster-proof but a lot closer.

Part of the issue is of course that Trump won't make his own position clear, presumably so he can exist in a superposition of taking credit for parts his base likes and blaming Congress for those they don't. Difficult for the Rs to whip their own caucus when the very base-popular President can turn on whatever they decide at the drop of a hat.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2018, 11:54:43 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?

We’re talking about people who are adults now who largely sat on their rights and continued to live here unlawfully.

When discussing the Federal budget, I prioritize Americans.


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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2018, 11:57:33 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
You realize that DACA status does not confer immigration benefits, right?

It gives them the ability to stay here, despite having entered the country unlawfully.
That's not an immigration benefit. The fact that the government chose not to deport them doesn't give them any ability to "correct their status".

I hate to put words in people's mouths, but you'll have to explain what you mean by "take care of their status". Assuming it's not just, "Hey, we know that mom and dad brought you in when you were 2, but you're an adult now and you've had decades to go back to that country you've never lived in and whose language you may or may not speak".

Yes, they can apply to be granted the legal right to be here. If that requires them leaving before applying, so be it.


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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2018, 12:01:52 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
You realize that DACA status does not confer immigration benefits, right?

It gives them the ability to stay here, despite having entered the country unlawfully.
That's not an immigration benefit. The fact that the government chose not to deport them doesn't give them any ability to "correct their status".

I hate to put words in people's mouths, but you'll have to explain what you mean by "take care of their status". Assuming it's not just, "Hey, we know that mom and dad brought you in when you were 2, but you're an adult now and you've had decades to go back to that country you've never lived in and whose language you may or may not speak".

Yes, they can apply to be granted the legal right to be here. If that requires them leaving before applying, so be it.

A minor inconvenience for sure.

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 12:02:09 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?

We’re talking about people who are adults now who largely sat on their rights and continued to live here unlawfully.

When discussing the Federal budget, I prioritize Americans.
You can beat around the bush all you want, but there's no way to pain a human face on this. Might as well just own up the deportations of people who are not at fault.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2018, 12:02:49 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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McConnell doesn't appear to have 50 votes from his own party for the House bill, so the impact of a filibuster is moot. The scuttled bipartisan deal reportedly had at least 56 - still not filibuster-proof but a lot closer.

Part of the issue is of course that Trump won't make his own position clear, presumably so he can exist in a superposition of taking credit for parts his base likes and blaming Congress for those they don't. Difficult for the Rs to whip their own caucus when the very base-popular President can turn on whatever they decide at the drop of a hat.

Very good point. I watched the WH Briefing, they just sidestepped the fact that McConnell can't get the votes on his own, throwing the blame at Dems. And your point about Trump fence-sitting (superposition, fantastic term I haven't heard since college physics) is well taken. Kind of part of his whole MO, 'Just win, and blame on others what you don't'.

And also I'd just like to throw a Tommy Point your way. Often your comments are anchors to sanity and a more measured and considered response to the actual topic at hand, and the times you've stopped me from probably saying something on these boards I'd regret in response to posts that are often not even remotely on topic. So, thanks.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2018, 12:05:49 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
If Republicans cared about children's health care they would have funded it months ago rather than intentionally turning it into a political football.  There is enough blame on both sides on a potential shutdown but the Republican's have no right to to say that Dems don't care about children's health insurance when it is nothing but a bargaining chip (pun intended) to them.
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2018, 12:09:14 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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A minor inconvenience for sure.
I'm about ready to stop discussing things with Roy. These days, he's just decided being unapologetically facetious on just about everything. Which is a curious and rather unfortunate development for someone I've know as one of the most thoughtful posters around here for what is now more than a decade (that's all I'm going to say on this... I don't think this or any other topic should devolve into a discussion of poster X, but this has really been on my mind for a while).

Speaking of inconveniences, he does seem a lot more concerned about the inconvenience that might be caused to a Catholic nurse whose job description might require her to write contraceptive prescriptions. Funny how that works.
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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2018, 12:10:19 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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They came here unlawfully.
I'm rather curious, do you not understand that we're talking about people that were brought in as minors and did not, at any point, have a pathway to legal permanent residency or citizenship. Or are you just choosing you just ignore that fact?

We’re talking about people who are adults now who largely sat on their rights and continued to live here unlawfully.

When discussing the Federal budget, I prioritize Americans.
You can beat around the bush all you want, but there's no way to pain a human face on this. Might as well just own up the deportations of people who are not at fault.

They’re at fault.  Lesser fault, but still fault.

And sure, I’m fine deporting them. It wouldn’t be my first priority, but there should be no incentive built into the system to encourage smuggling children across the border.

Americans first.  A budget needs to prioritize our citizens and lawful residents first.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:19:12 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2018, 12:11:19 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
If Republicans cared about children's health care they would have funded it months ago rather than intentionally turning it into a political football.  There is enough blame on both sides on a potential shutdown but the Republican's have no right to to say that Dems don't care about children's health insurance when it is nothing but a bargaining chip (pun intended) to them.

Yeah that's the crazy thing, the WH is framing this conflict as if they're giving the Dems what they want with CHIP, as a concession, but part of a concession is that you don't actually want it yourself.

So if EVERYONE wants to fund CHIP, CHIP isn't a concession. And the President tweeting about it muddies the water further.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2018, 12:13:38 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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So, the government is going to be shut down over DACA?
A much more valiant cause than defunding healthcare, methinks.

I’m sure that the working poor that Democrats need to win back will be thrilled to see their benefits delayed to benefit unlawful immigrants.
Yes, let's keep hold people that were brought in as minors accountable for their transgressions. That'd teach them!

They’ve had decades to correct their status.

But, if Dems want to screw American workers (and children’s health insurance) to appease unlawful immigrants, that can be the hill they die on.
You realize that DACA status does not confer immigration benefits, right?

It gives them the ability to stay here, despite having entered the country unlawfully.
That's not an immigration benefit. The fact that the government chose not to deport them doesn't give them any ability to "correct their status".

I hate to put words in people's mouths, but you'll have to explain what you mean by "take care of their status". Assuming it's not just, "Hey, we know that mom and dad brought you in when you were 2, but you're an adult now and you've had decades to go back to that country you've never lived in and whose language you may or may not speak".

Yes, they can apply to be granted the legal right to be here. If that requires them leaving before applying, so be it.

A minor inconvenience for sure.

It’s not easy, but they’re here unlawfully. Perhaps it’s heartless, but children of criminals shouldn’t automatically jump to the head of the line in front of people who did things the legal way.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Government Shutdown
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2018, 12:23:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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They’re at fault.  Lesser fault, but still fault.
Just to get this straight, you're saying that someone who was brought in as an infant and spent all of their formative years in the US is at fault for not leaving back for a country he probably has zero ties to, correct?

And sure, I’m fine deporting them. It wouldn’t be my first priority, but there should be no incentive built into the system to encourage smuggling children across the border.
There are ways of dealing with the people that are already here without administering cruel and unusual measures.

Americans first.
We just seem to differ in our definition of "Americans". To each their own.
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