Author Topic: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from  (Read 5072 times)

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Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2018, 01:25:43 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I mean, yeah, I'd rather bring in immigrants from Norway, too.  Or China, Japan, or Canada.

People from those countries simply are more likely to be high level contributing and productive members of our society than someone from Haiti, Zimbabwe, Afghanistan, ect..

That has nothing to do with race, it's a simple matter of fact.

Now, I don't think that is the logic Trump is using here.  I don't think Trump even knows what the word 'logic' means.  And it most certainly is not a good idea to refer to any country as a ----hole, regardless of whether it is true or not.  That is language the President should not be using to talk about anyone's place of residence.

Once again Trump opens his mouth and proceeds to directly insert his foot.  I'll never understand what goes on in that orange head of his.

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2018, 06:20:46 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I mean, yeah, I'd rather bring in immigrants from Norway, too.  Or China, Japan, or Canada.

People from those countries simply are more likely to be high level contributing and productive members of our society than someone from Haiti, Zimbabwe, Afghanistan, ect..

That has nothing to do with race, it's a simple matter of fact.

Now, I don't think that is the logic Trump is using here.  I don't think Trump even knows what the word 'logic' means.  And it most certainly is not a good idea to refer to any country as a ----hole, regardless of whether it is true or not.  That is language the President should not be using to talk about anyone's place of residence.

Once again Trump opens his mouth and proceeds to directly insert his foot.  I'll never understand what goes on in that orange head of his.

Bit isn't it easy for s stable genius not to put his foot on his mouth?  He should be able to say that it's not that he wants immigrants from Norway, Japan, Canada and not from S-hole countries, its that he wants to attract more immigrants who are likely to make a positive contribution to the USA.  Now some might still be offended, but at least it accurately states his goal without sounding as though there is a racial preference. Easy.

But the circumstances around when he said it and who was present remains unclear to me.  It's an obnoxious statement regardless, but my guess is that worse things are said by politicians in private conversations.  Can someone illuminate me as to the context in which he made the statement and who (other than Dick Durbin) was there?


 

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2018, 06:54:37 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Also, apparently he wants more immigrants from Norway and less from the countries he insulted. Could it be most Norwegians are white?

I am going to ask you an honest question, would you want to move to Haiti or the countries in Africa he commented on?  BE HONEST!

Once, again, it was an insensitive and stupid thing to say that could have been better worded or even better left unsaid.    Pres. Trump does not have gaffes, he has like nuclear bombs that seem to be targeted right at the Social Justice Movement, part of me thinks this stuff is intentional and a smoke screen.

Guess what you're not talking about Robert Mueller today are you?

I for one favor skill-based immigration but race should not be a question asked on the form. 

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2018, 07:32:54 AM »

Online Roy H.

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To me, it makes a huge difference that this was said privately (and was then leaked for political purposes).  Many, many of our Presidents have been crass in private.  Trump crosses that line publicly all the time, but he didn’t here.

And, relatively speaking, many African countries, Haiti, etc. are crud holes. That doesn’t make the people bad, but it does probably suggest that overall they’re bad for our country.

None of you have ever disparaged a town / city / country? If I say that Trenton, Camden, Newark, etc., are crud holes, does that make me racist? 

There’s a policy debate, but to me the language is pretty irrelevant.



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Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2018, 08:08:42 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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To me, it makes a huge difference that this was said privately (and was then leaked for political purposes).  Many, many of our Presidents have been crass in private.  Trump crosses that line publicly all the time, but he didn’t here.

And, relatively speaking, many African countries, Haiti, etc. are crud holes. That doesn’t make the people bad, but it does probably suggest that overall they’re bad for our country.

None of you have ever disparaged a town / city / country? If I say that Trenton, Camden, Newark, etc., are crud holes, does that make me racist? 

There’s a policy debate, but to me the language is pretty irrelevant.

I'm not sure how you feel about white Africans/Caribbean Islanders/New Jerseans of European descent so I can't really speak to whether or not your sentiment is racist, but it does appear ill-informed and ethnocentric.

Suggesting that overall people are bad for a country because of their place of origin is literally what Stalin and Hitler did.  You probably want to do a gut check when you start writing things that make you easy to lump in with those guys.

Many of the posters in this thread seem to believe all immigrants are unskilled, and untrained.  I don't know if this is how you feel, but I want to address this. 

The U.S. doesn't recognize degrees from universities in most developing nations.  When I went back to school to take a bunch of collegiate science courses (chemistries, physics, calculus, Anatomy and Physiology, Biology, etc) the majority of the students were from places like the Sudan, Somalia, Ruwanda, the Congo, Ethiopa, Cuba etc.  I was really surprised to learn that some of the best students in these classes were immigrants that already had degrees in these areas but had to get an "American" degree to be considered legitimate in their field even though they came to this country with higher level degrees and work experience.  They definitely came from countries our president would describe privately (though why he now thinks anything he says is private is beyond me) as sh#tholes.

So when you assume that immigrants are unskilled remember your entire educational/professional system is built to keep people out who haven't been funneled through it since they were very young.

Many immigrants who come here will have to earn the same degree a second time, and learn a 4th, 5th, or 6th language just to get a piece of that American pie that everyone keeps talking about.     


Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2018, 08:31:50 AM »

Online Roy H.

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To me, it makes a huge difference that this was said privately (and was then leaked for political purposes).  Many, many of our Presidents have been crass in private.  Trump crosses that line publicly all the time, but he didn’t here.

And, relatively speaking, many African countries, Haiti, etc. are crud holes. That doesn’t make the people bad, but it does probably suggest that overall they’re bad for our country.

None of you have ever disparaged a town / city / country? If I say that Trenton, Camden, Newark, etc., are crud holes, does that make me racist? 

There’s a policy debate, but to me the language is pretty irrelevant.

I'm not sure how you feel about white Africans/Caribbean Islanders/New Jerseans of European descent so I can't really speak to whether or not your sentiment is racist, but it does appear ill-informed and ethnocentric.

Suggesting that overall people are bad for a country because of their place of origin is literally what Stalin and Hitler did.  You probably want to do a gut check when you start writing things that make you easy to lump in with those guys.

Many of the posters in this thread seem to believe all immigrants are unskilled, and untrained.  I don't know if this is how you feel, but I want to address this. 

The U.S. doesn't recognize degrees from universities in most developing nations.  When I went back to school to take a bunch of collegiate science courses (chemistries, physics, calculus, Anatomy and Physiology, Biology, etc) the majority of the students were from places like the Sudan, Somalia, Ruwanda, the Congo, Ethiopa, Cuba etc.  I was really surprised to learn that some of the best students in these classes were immigrants that already had degrees in these areas but had to get an "American" degree to be considered legitimate in their field even though they came to this country with higher level degrees and work experience.  They definitely came from countries our president would describe privately (though why he now thinks anything he says is private is beyond me) as sh#tholes.

So when you assume that immigrants are unskilled remember your entire educational/professional system is built to keep people out who haven't been funneled through it since they were very young.

Many immigrants who come here will have to earn the same degree a second time, and learn a 4th, 5th, or 6th language just to get a piece of that American pie that everyone keeps talking about.     

Ill-informed and ethnocentric? I worked in Trenton. One of my primary clients (NJ Transit) was based out of Newark. I regularly practiced in Camden. All of them, by and large, are crap holes. That doesn’t make the citizens bad people, but they’re terrible places to work and live. Public education, infrastructure, violent crime, opportunity...  all are about as crappy as it gets.

If I’m getting a new neighbor it doesn’t make me a racist to say, statistically, I’d prefer somebody from Cherry Hill as opposed to Camden, or Lake Forest opposed to South Chicago. There are obviously high achievers and low achievers in all areas, but broadly not every neighborhood, city or country is in fact equal in terms of the quality of its immigrants.


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Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2018, 09:28:54 AM »

Offline gift

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I feel like people think that Trump will be defeated via a quantity of his errors and faults, when in reality opponents in American politics are generally defeated by one or a few major issues.

I'm qualifying here that I am not a Trump supporter because it sometimes seems necessary to do so. However, quite honestly I don't have a problem with every little thing that gets brought up about him. Opposition to Trump is absolutely guilty of overreaching and overreacting in the same cliched, reactionary ways as opponents to any other recent president. And I think by attacking Trump on the quantity of his errors, they are masking the quality of his errors and faults. By magnifying everything, his worst attributes aren't distinguished and the best arguments against him become tired by the time you reach them.

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2018, 10:00:06 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Trump:

Quote
The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made - a big setback for DACA!

Quote
Never said anything derogatory about Haitians other than Haiti is, obviously, a very poor and troubled country. Never said “take them out.” Made up by Dems. I have a wonderful relationship with Haitians. Probably should record future meetings - unfortunately, no trust!

Why even deny it? Does anybody doubt he said it?


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Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2018, 10:01:03 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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To me, it makes a huge difference that this was said privately (and was then leaked for political purposes).  Many, many of our Presidents have been crass in private.  Trump crosses that line publicly all the time, but he didn’t here.

And, relatively speaking, many African countries, Haiti, etc. are crud holes. That doesn’t make the people bad, but it does probably suggest that overall they’re bad for our country.

None of you have ever disparaged a town / city / country? If I say that Trenton, Camden, Newark, etc., are crud holes, does that make me racist? 

There’s a policy debate, but to me the language is pretty irrelevant.

I'm not sure how you feel about white Africans/Caribbean Islanders/New Jerseans of European descent so I can't really speak to whether or not your sentiment is racist, but it does appear ill-informed and ethnocentric.

Suggesting that overall people are bad for a country because of their place of origin is literally what Stalin and Hitler did.  You probably want to do a gut check when you start writing things that make you easy to lump in with those guys.

Many of the posters in this thread seem to believe all immigrants are unskilled, and untrained.  I don't know if this is how you feel, but I want to address this. 

The U.S. doesn't recognize degrees from universities in most developing nations.  When I went back to school to take a bunch of collegiate science courses (chemistries, physics, calculus, Anatomy and Physiology, Biology, etc) the majority of the students were from places like the Sudan, Somalia, Ruwanda, the Congo, Ethiopa, Cuba etc.  I was really surprised to learn that some of the best students in these classes were immigrants that already had degrees in these areas but had to get an "American" degree to be considered legitimate in their field even though they came to this country with higher level degrees and work experience.  They definitely came from countries our president would describe privately (though why he now thinks anything he says is private is beyond me) as sh#tholes.

So when you assume that immigrants are unskilled remember your entire educational/professional system is built to keep people out who haven't been funneled through it since they were very young.

Many immigrants who come here will have to earn the same degree a second time, and learn a 4th, 5th, or 6th language just to get a piece of that American pie that everyone keeps talking about.     

African immigrants, who apparently were the target of the "****hole" smear, are better-educated overall than the American populace. There's an underlying fabric of stereotypes that gets a lot of people to take for granted that it must be the opposite.

And while I'm not keen on the Hitler/Stalin comparisons, the idea that national origin is inherently meritorious or demeritorious is one notch away from the idea that race is, and a slim notch at that. A truly merit-based system would ignore national origin entirely in favor of, y'know, merit. That's not what's being proposed nor what's being defended. 

And that's without getting into the implications of the President insulting foreign nations that we might need help from for our military or foreign policy, and the national origins of millions of Americans. Or wantonly endangering Americans residing in those countries. 

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2018, 10:10:52 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
And that's without getting into the implications of the President insulting foreign nations that we might need help from for our military or foreign policy, and the national origins of millions of Americans. Or wantonly endangering Americans residing in those countries.

Do you feel that the Democrat who leaked the private, closed door discussions was similarly “wanton”?


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Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2018, 10:16:08 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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Who carea about Trump the bonehead

He wont be re elected

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2018, 10:27:08 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Who carea about Trump the bonehead

He wont be re elected

I'm expecting a primary, but will the republicans unite fast behind a challenger, or will there be a dozen splitting the votes again?  Would he win a primary?

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2018, 10:33:44 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Who carea about Trump the bonehead

He wont be re elected

I'm expecting a primary, but will the republicans unite fast behind a challenger, or will there be a dozen splitting the votes again?  Would he win a primary?

He’ll win the primary unless he’s under indictment.  The qualified guys with a national organization— Romney, Rubio, Kasich — aren’t going to excite primary voters.


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Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2018, 10:42:59 AM »

Offline Pucaccia

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Trump will win re-election, he is doing too many good things for the country.  The Dems, don't have a good candidate.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 10:53:23 AM by Pucaccia »

Re: Trump uses expletive to describe countries that we have immigrants from
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2018, 10:58:38 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
And that's without getting into the implications of the President insulting foreign nations that we might need help from for our military or foreign policy, and the national origins of millions of Americans. Or wantonly endangering Americans residing in those countries.

Do you feel that the Democrat who leaked the private, closed door discussions was similarly “wanton”?

This shtick isn't going to get you any more traction with me than it did last year.