Author Topic: What point does a player become 'injury,' prone? Kawhi partial tear in shoulder  (Read 2575 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17427
  • Tommy Points: 832
"Doesn't have great size, speed of athleticism". Everyone's favorite knock against Paul Pierce.
And that was true of Paul Pierce also (at least compared to the elite of the elite).  Leonard is a great player, I just don't see him in James, Durant, or Giannis class of player.  Those guys are just a different level athletically and have a much better all around game (i.e. more complete offensive players and comparable defensively).  There is no shame in being the 4th best SF in the game, which is what Leonard is.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Online celticsclay

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8191
  • Tommy Points: 936
Kawhi is one of the most overrated player in the league, he got covered so much by Pop's system
Couldn't disagree more.  The Spurs win a lot of games but I can't think of guys who look a lot better in Pop's system than elsewhere.  Simmons, for example, continues to blossom since leaving the Spurs.  I have Kawhi in the Durant and Lebron tier.
San Antonio is 27-14 this season.  Leonard has played in 8 of those games and the Spurs are 4-4 in those games, making them 23-10 without Leonard.  They even won all 4 games that Leonard didn't play since Leonard came back.  I think there may be some credence to the fact that Leonard has become overrated.  He is a scorer and a great defender, but he isn't a guy that can run an offense or a team.  His passing skills are poor (for a top level player).  He isn't a good rebounder.  He doesn't have great size, speed, or athleticism.  He uses his intelligence and instincts incredibly well, but he isn't some physical specimen.  He is a great player, but I think this season has shown he isn't in the same class as Lebron or Durant (or Giannis).

wait are you seriously trying to use an 8 game sample where Leonard is trying to get in shape and playing 50% less minutes than years as some sort of argument about his value to their record? He played 20 minutes or less in half those games Your stat manipulations are very impressive at times. Just presenting that with a straight face is heroic.

PS: Did you not watch last year's playoffs before and after they lost him? That alone would end any argument of his value to their team.

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5259
  • Tommy Points: 892
"Partial tear" of what? Muscle, cartilage, ligaments... his long sleeved jersey? That's an awful bit of reporting right there.

I like how the original quote says that Leonard "may have partially torn his shoulder." Torn his shoulder? Like, his shoulder is on its way to falling off?
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis


Online Monkhouse

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4253
  • Tommy Points: 363
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
"Partial tear" of what? Muscle, cartilage, ligaments... his long sleeved jersey? That's an awful bit of reporting right there.

I like how the original quote says that Leonard "may have partially torn his shoulder." Torn his shoulder? Like, his shoulder is on its way to falling off?

That is what the hoopsrumor and trade rumors noted it as lol. I'm just copy pasting.
Life is too short to worry about what other people think about you...

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful."

Check out my soundcloud if you get a chance!
www.soundcloud.com/monkhouse-3

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5259
  • Tommy Points: 892
"Partial tear" of what? Muscle, cartilage, ligaments... his long sleeved jersey? That's an awful bit of reporting right there.

I like how the original quote says that Leonard "may have partially torn his shoulder." Torn his shoulder? Like, his shoulder is on its way to falling off?

That is what the hoopsrumor and trade rumors noted it as lol. I'm just copy pasting.

No problem! I'm an editor, so this is my type of humor!
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis


Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17427
  • Tommy Points: 832
Kawhi is one of the most overrated player in the league, he got covered so much by Pop's system
Couldn't disagree more.  The Spurs win a lot of games but I can't think of guys who look a lot better in Pop's system than elsewhere.  Simmons, for example, continues to blossom since leaving the Spurs.  I have Kawhi in the Durant and Lebron tier.
San Antonio is 27-14 this season.  Leonard has played in 8 of those games and the Spurs are 4-4 in those games, making them 23-10 without Leonard.  They even won all 4 games that Leonard didn't play since Leonard came back.  I think there may be some credence to the fact that Leonard has become overrated.  He is a scorer and a great defender, but he isn't a guy that can run an offense or a team.  His passing skills are poor (for a top level player).  He isn't a good rebounder.  He doesn't have great size, speed, or athleticism.  He uses his intelligence and instincts incredibly well, but he isn't some physical specimen.  He is a great player, but I think this season has shown he isn't in the same class as Lebron or Durant (or Giannis).

wait are you seriously trying to use an 8 game sample where Leonard is trying to get in shape and playing 50% less minutes than years as some sort of argument about his value to their record? He played 20 minutes or less in half those games Your stat manipulations are very impressive at times. Just presenting that with a straight face is heroic.

PS: Did you not watch last year's playoffs before and after they lost him? That alone would end any argument of his value to their team.
The bigger side of that is they are 23-10 without him.  He played in 74 regular season games last year.  The Spurs were 7-1 in the games he missed.  They were 7-3 the year before that without Leonard.  9-9 the year before that.  8-8 the year before that.  15-9 the year before that.

In other words, Leonard has missed a lot of games and the Spurs have never been worse than .500 without him and their 3 best seasons without him are their 3 most recent seasons at 23-10, 7-1, and 7-3. 

How truly valuable is a player if in the last 51 regular season games he has missed his team is 37-14?  Leonard is much more like Paul Pierce than Lebron James.  That makes him a great player, but it does not make him a super duper elite player. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Online celticsclay

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8191
  • Tommy Points: 936
Kawhi is one of the most overrated player in the league, he got covered so much by Pop's system
Couldn't disagree more.  The Spurs win a lot of games but I can't think of guys who look a lot better in Pop's system than elsewhere.  Simmons, for example, continues to blossom since leaving the Spurs.  I have Kawhi in the Durant and Lebron tier.
San Antonio is 27-14 this season.  Leonard has played in 8 of those games and the Spurs are 4-4 in those games, making them 23-10 without Leonard.  They even won all 4 games that Leonard didn't play since Leonard came back.  I think there may be some credence to the fact that Leonard has become overrated.  He is a scorer and a great defender, but he isn't a guy that can run an offense or a team.  His passing skills are poor (for a top level player).  He isn't a good rebounder.  He doesn't have great size, speed, or athleticism.  He uses his intelligence and instincts incredibly well, but he isn't some physical specimen.  He is a great player, but I think this season has shown he isn't in the same class as Lebron or Durant (or Giannis).

wait are you seriously trying to use an 8 game sample where Leonard is trying to get in shape and playing 50% less minutes than years as some sort of argument about his value to their record? He played 20 minutes or less in half those games Your stat manipulations are very impressive at times. Just presenting that with a straight face is heroic.

PS: Did you not watch last year's playoffs before and after they lost him? That alone would end any argument of his value to their team.
The bigger side of that is they are 23-10 without him.  He played in 74 regular season games last year.  The Spurs were 7-1 in the games he missed.  They were 7-3 the year before that without Leonard.  9-9 the year before that.  8-8 the year before that.  15-9 the year before that.

In other words, Leonard has missed a lot of games and the Spurs have never been worse than .500 without him and their 3 best seasons without him are their 3 most recent seasons at 23-10, 7-1, and 7-3. 

How truly valuable is a player if in the last 51 regular season games he has missed his team is 37-14?  Leonard is much more like Paul Pierce than Lebron James.  That makes him a great player, but it does not make him a super duper elite player.

Just completely disagree. When he is healthy he is probably the best player in the entire NBA. Pop is a great coach, probably the best ever, and can do a great job masking deficiencies in talent better than anyone in a handful of a regular season games. That doesn't take anything away from Leonard's greatness and Pop would be the first person to tell you that...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBQRjtDBt4/

This honestly feels like a skip bayless take.

Offline playdream

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1041
  • Tommy Points: 61
Kawhi is one of the most overrated player in the league, he got covered so much by Pop's system
Couldn't disagree more.  The Spurs win a lot of games but I can't think of guys who look a lot better in Pop's system than elsewhere.  Simmons, for example, continues to blossom since leaving the Spurs.  I have Kawhi in the Durant and Lebron tier.
San Antonio is 27-14 this season.  Leonard has played in 8 of those games and the Spurs are 4-4 in those games, making them 23-10 without Leonard.  They even won all 4 games that Leonard didn't play since Leonard came back.  I think there may be some credence to the fact that Leonard has become overrated.  He is a scorer and a great defender, but he isn't a guy that can run an offense or a team.  His passing skills are poor (for a top level player).  He isn't a good rebounder.  He doesn't have great size, speed, or athleticism.  He uses his intelligence and instincts incredibly well, but he isn't some physical specimen.  He is a great player, but I think this season has shown he isn't in the same class as Lebron or Durant (or Giannis).

wait are you seriously trying to use an 8 game sample where Leonard is trying to get in shape and playing 50% less minutes than years as some sort of argument about his value to their record? He played 20 minutes or less in half those games Your stat manipulations are very impressive at times. Just presenting that with a straight face is heroic.

PS: Did you not watch last year's playoffs before and after they lost him? That alone would end any argument of his value to their team.
The bigger side of that is they are 23-10 without him.  He played in 74 regular season games last year.  The Spurs were 7-1 in the games he missed.  They were 7-3 the year before that without Leonard.  9-9 the year before that.  8-8 the year before that.  15-9 the year before that.

In other words, Leonard has missed a lot of games and the Spurs have never been worse than .500 without him and their 3 best seasons without him are their 3 most recent seasons at 23-10, 7-1, and 7-3. 

How truly valuable is a player if in the last 51 regular season games he has missed his team is 37-14?  Leonard is much more like Paul Pierce than Lebron James.  That makes him a great player, but it does not make him a super duper elite player.

Just completely disagree. When he is healthy he is probably the best player in the entire NBA. Pop is a great coach, probably the best ever, and can do a great job masking deficiencies in talent better than anyone in a handful of a regular season games. That doesn't take anything away from Leonard's greatness and Pop would be the first person to tell you that... Again look at the playoffs last year with him and without. This feels like a skip bayless take.
If your core player goes down in game you are due to lose some games for changed lineup and plays, especially in playoffs against warriors
I think this is the best example of how people overrated him

Larry? MJ? of course you should "expect he brings it night in and night out as the best player on the team like them" as his coach, but to put them on the same level as player is plain laughable
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 06:56:18 PM by playdream »

Offline gouki88

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1541
  • Tommy Points: 103
"Doesn't have great size, speed of athleticism". Everyone's favorite knock against Paul Pierce.
And that was true of Paul Pierce also (at least compared to the elite of the elite).  Leonard is a great player, I just don't see him in James, Durant, or Giannis class of player.  Those guys are just a different level athletically and have a much better all around game (i.e. more complete offensive players and comparable defensively).  There is no shame in being the 4th best SF in the game, which is what Leonard is.
LOL, behind Giannis??? Amazing
Quote from: PhoSita
It's not rational, but sports fandom isn't supposed to be.

Offline csfansince60s

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5137
  • Tommy Points: 1774
Quote
While it seems Kawhi Leonard may have partially torn his shoulder, the Spurs donít seem particularly concerned about the injury. Immediately after mentioning the tear to Tom Orsborn of the San Antonio Express-News, head coach Gregg Popovich said that the forward could potentially return before the end of the teamís three-game road trip.

According to ESPNís Michael Wright, Leonard has not even been formally ruled out for Thursdayís game.

Interesting to note Pop doesn't seem to take it serious, but always wondered at what point does a player become considered injury prone?

TP to the OP for the question.

I am amazed that that this specific, salient question is swept under the rug by the Anthony Davis sentiment that permeates this board.

Not only are threads devoted to his acquisition, but even in threads that start off having nothing to do with AD, the conversation often will get around (devolve, in my opinion) to how that specific matter discussed impacts either acquiring AD or affects AD when he gets here, presuming that NOT acquiring AD is not even an entertain-able thought.

But for his durability issues, AD is the PERFECT fit for our Cs.

Age, skillset, competitive fire>>>>>PERFECT.............BUT.......

AD is the definition of injury-prone. He has already missed 6 games this year. Last year was the only year that he played over (barely) 70 games. His season has been ended twice due to left knee injuries, the same knee that he hurt at the beginning of this year and missed time.

But AD's knee is just the tip (although a troublesome, recurring, problematic tip) of his litany of injuries iceberg.

AD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>injury prone.....this sounds like fertile ground for a thread on whether we should acquire AD or not and if so, at what cost.

Offline wayupnorth

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1109
  • Tommy Points: 141
Leonard is every bit on KD's and LBJ's level, and it really humors me someone thinks that Giannis, right now, is better than him. That is ludicrous, Leonard is a far superior player.

Heck, I could very well pick Leonard over KD if push came to shove.

Online celticsclay

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8191
  • Tommy Points: 936
Leonard is every bit on KD's and LBJ's level, and it really humors me someone thinks that Giannis, right now, is better than him. That is ludicrous, Leonard is a far superior player.

Heck, I could very well pick Leonard over KD if push came to shove.
I agree 100%. I guess for some he just doesn't make enough commercials or yell at the refs

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17427
  • Tommy Points: 832
Leonard is every bit on KD's and LBJ's level, and it really humors me someone thinks that Giannis, right now, is better than him. That is ludicrous, Leonard is a far superior player.

Heck, I could very well pick Leonard over KD if push came to shove.
Giannis is the only player in NBA history to finish in the top 20 in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals.  This year he is averaging basically  29 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 1.3 blocks with a TS% of 62.1.  Giannis is better than Leonard right now and the gap is only going to increase.  I wouldn't be all that surprised if entering next season Giannis was considered the best player in the world as he is still just 23 and has gotten exponentially better every single season.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Online celticsclay

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8191
  • Tommy Points: 936
Leonard is every bit on KD's and LBJ's level, and it really humors me someone thinks that Giannis, right now, is better than him. That is ludicrous, Leonard is a far superior player.

Heck, I could very well pick Leonard over KD if push came to shove.
Giannis is the only player in NBA history to finish in the top 20 in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals.  This year he is averaging basically  29 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 1.3 blocks with a TS% of 62.1.  Giannis is better than Leonard right now and the gap is only going to increase.  I wouldn't be all that surprised if entering next season Giannis was considered the best player in the world as he is still just 23 and has gotten exponentially better every single season.

Serious question. If Giannis is so good right now why are the bucks two games above .500 with Middleton, Bledsoe and Brodgen on their roster and some serviceable vets like snell, Delladova and Henson? Giannis deserves no blame?

Offline gouki88

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1541
  • Tommy Points: 103
Leonard is every bit on KD's and LBJ's level, and it really humors me someone thinks that Giannis, right now, is better than him. That is ludicrous, Leonard is a far superior player.

Heck, I could very well pick Leonard over KD if push came to shove.
Giannis is the only player in NBA history to finish in the top 20 in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals.  This year he is averaging basically  29 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 1.3 blocks with a TS% of 62.1.  Giannis is better than Leonard right now and the gap is only going to increase.  I wouldn't be all that surprised if entering next season Giannis was considered the best player in the world as he is still just 23 and has gotten exponentially better every single season.
Rofl
Quote from: PhoSita
It's not rational, but sports fandom isn't supposed to be.