Author Topic: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial  (Read 4809 times)

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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #120 on: August 22, 2018, 01:53:56 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Very very early after inauguration as the initial lies about no Russia meetings started to unravel, somebody asked McCain if he thought the other shoe was going to drop.  He said something along the lines of "There are a lot more shoes to drop. This thing is a centipede."  I think about that quote a lot.



LOLOL That is a great quote.

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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #121 on: August 22, 2018, 09:05:49 PM »

Offline Cman

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Here is a good breakdown of the three possible outcomes forthcoming for Manafort (prison vs cooperation vs pardon):

https://www.thedailybeast.com/manaforts-choices-work-with-mueller-wish-for-trump-pardon-or-die-in-prison

The two authors are both former prosecuting attorneys.

One bit they only slightly allude to that's a possible hedge against the get-out-of-jail-free card by Trump Pardon is that he could have state charges looming against him.    A Trump Pardon could wipe away his current conviction and even his future upcoming trial in DC federal court for further charges.  But it can't wipe away any charges/convictions brought by New York state.

Thanks for the link. I had forgotten that we were only on Manafort trial number one and that we still have more to come.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #122 on: August 22, 2018, 09:46:52 PM »

Offline Cman

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By the way, with the Manafort guilty verdict, can we all agree that the special counsel is not on a witch hunt?

(Assuming the other dozen or so indictments/guilty pleas werenít enough).
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #123 on: August 22, 2018, 10:39:12 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I have no faith this Congress will impeach Trump. Heck, I have no faith they will even investigate him. But if the midterm elections go bad for Republicans, a year from now we could be knee deep into the impeachment process.

There's zero chance he'd ever be convicted by the Senate, though.  It takes 67 votes there.  We'd be looking at a Clinton situation, where he's impeached but continues to serve his term.

To actually be removed from office, there's going to have to be a smoking gun of a serious crime.  You would think that an impeached incumbent would be impossible to re-elect, but who knows these days?

There is absolutely a greater than zero chance heíd be removed, Roy.  If the Dems take both the House and the Senate, in what should be an easy year for Republicans to pick up Senate seats given the map, Trumpís political capital in that chamber could erode very, very quickly.  A Democratic-controlled Senate would have more power over the proceedings, highlighting the worst of the accusations and strongest evidence.  They would be more apt to compel witnesses to testify, and punish those who did not cooperate.  And, having lost seats in the 2018 mid-terms, Republicans may be willing to toss Trump politically to salvage their chances in 2020.  Do they want impeached Trump running on their ticket, or Pence?

It would be a political decision for sure, but there is definitely a possible scenario in which such a decision would seem palpable to Republicans.  Mitch McConnell is an incredibly shrewd politician, and controls most of the Republican vote.  He also looks out for himself first.   If he senses his best way to maintain or return to power is to dump Trump, he wonít hesitate.

Now itís certainly not a guarantee the Dems will take the Senate (the prediction markets have it at a 25-30% chance), but itís also something that canít be written off.

As much as I'd like to agree with you, the Democrats always fold. Always. Their leadership is a complete joke, they have no spine of which to speak, imo, and their approach to, well, anything and everything, I'm afraid, is simply beyond pathetic and weak. When push comes to shove, they just aren't tough, never mind radical, enough. :-\ Sad! ::)

Seriously, though, the party desperately needs an infusion of new blood that is actually in touch with the concerns and needs of the people of this country, and Feinstein, Pelosi, and Schumer are not, and never were, the answer, in my view. Turn the party over to Warren and Sanders and actually DO SOMETHING, FOR ONCE. *facepalm* Ugh.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #124 on: August 22, 2018, 11:47:46 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #125 on: August 23, 2018, 10:08:20 AM »

Offline Cman

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/22/manafort-juror-reveals-lone-holdout-prevented-mueller-team-from-convicting-on-all-counts.html

Very interesting read. Note that the person who told the story was a big Trump supporter, but ultimately felt that Manafort was guilty on all counts. Nice to see a person able to put political differences aside.

Quote
A political allegiance to the president also raised conflicted feelings in Duncan, but she said it ultimately didnít change her decision about the former Trump campaign chairman.

Also, ugh:
Quote
She added that Muellerís team of prosecutors often seemed bored, apparently catnapping during parts of the trial.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #126 on: September 14, 2018, 11:39:01 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Manafort flips - just entered a plea deal for his second trial that includes a 17 page cooperation agreement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/trump-campaign-chief-paul-manafort-pleads-guilty-to-conspiracy-charges.html

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #127 on: September 14, 2018, 11:52:44 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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Manafort flips - just entered a plea deal for his second trial that includes a 17 page cooperation agreement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/trump-campaign-chief-paul-manafort-pleads-guilty-to-conspiracy-charges.html


It will be great to see how Trumpís description of Manafort transforms now.

It used to be ďHeís a good man, itís a shame what they are doing to himĒ

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #128 on: September 14, 2018, 12:43:04 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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Manafort flips - just entered a plea deal for his second trial that includes a 17 page cooperation agreement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/trump-campaign-chief-paul-manafort-pleads-guilty-to-conspiracy-charges.html


It will be great to see how Trumpís description of Manafort transforms now.

It used to be ďHeís a good man, itís a shame what they are doing to himĒ
Interesting that Guliani said "Once again an investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign.  The reason: the President did nothing wrong and Paul Manafort will tell the truth.Ē  and shortly after Jay Sekulow sent out the same message but ommitting the part stating that Manafort will tell the truth.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #129 on: September 14, 2018, 01:26:55 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Wow, cooperation agreement includes interviews with Mueller's people, providing documents, and even testimony in other proceedings. Manafort has even waived his right to have his lawyers present at those interviews.

It really makes me wonder what Manafort's getting out of it - he'll save some jail time but with his age and the convictions he's already racked up it seems almost moot.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2018, 01:52:24 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Wow, cooperation agreement includes interviews with Mueller's people, providing documents, and even testimony in other proceedings. Manafort has even waived his right to have his lawyers present at those interviews.

It really makes me wonder what Manafort's getting out of it - he'll save some jail time but with his age and the convictions he's already racked up it seems almost moot.

Potentially less forfeiture of assets to the government?  Heís turning over four properties as is, but perhaps he can leave something for his wife and kids to remember him by.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2018, 02:06:02 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Wow, cooperation agreement includes interviews with Mueller's people, providing documents, and even testimony in other proceedings. Manafort has even waived his right to have his lawyers present at those interviews.

It really makes me wonder what Manafort's getting out of it - he'll save some jail time but with his age and the convictions he's already racked up it seems almost moot.

Potentially less forfeiture of assets to the government?  Heís turning over four properties as is, but perhaps he can leave something for his wife and kids to remember him by.

That makes a lot of sense as at least part of the motivation. They've probably got him on enough financial stuff to bankrupt his family a couple times over.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2018, 02:59:38 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Wow, cooperation agreement includes interviews with Mueller's people, providing documents, and even testimony in other proceedings. Manafort has even waived his right to have his lawyers present at those interviews.

It really makes me wonder what Manafort's getting out of it - he'll save some jail time but with his age and the convictions he's already racked up it seems almost moot.

Potentially less forfeiture of assets to the government?  Heís turning over four properties as is, but perhaps he can leave something for his wife and kids to remember him by.

That makes a lot of sense as at least part of the motivation. They've probably got him on enough financial stuff to bankrupt his family a couple times over.

Manafort's lawyer said "He wanted to make sure that his family was able to remain safe and live a good life."

Given his former client list, he probably knows what he is talking about and there is protection as part of the deal.

Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #133 on: September 14, 2018, 05:39:34 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Wow, cooperation agreement includes interviews with Mueller's people, providing documents, and even testimony in other proceedings. Manafort has even waived his right to have his lawyers present at those interviews.

It really makes me wonder what Manafort's getting out of it - he'll save some jail time but with his age and the convictions he's already racked up it seems almost moot.

Potentially less forfeiture of assets to the government?  Heís turning over four properties as is, but perhaps he can leave something for his wife and kids to remember him by.

Is it possible they leveraged the threat of pending charges by the state of NY?   Manafort could always pray for a pardon to get him off the hook for all these federal charges.  But if NY charged and convicted him, he'd be toast because the Donald can't pardon him for state charges.    Maybe Mueller's team told him that if he flipped, they'd convince NY to hold off on charges?   By flipping he loses any chance Donald will pardon him, but the plea perhaps gets him _some_ relief.   At this point, that's probably the best he'll get.   If NY were to bring charges, he'd have zero leverage.
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Re: Paul Manafort bank and tax fraud trial
« Reply #134 on: September 17, 2018, 06:54:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Trump starting to really do everything he can to discredit the Russia investigation. Today he decided to declassify documents and texts of Comey, Page, Strzok, McCabe and Ohr without redacting them. Obviously he is going to try to use these things to try to convince people that there is a huge conspiracy against him. My guess is none of the documents will show anything that Mueller might be using against him.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/09/17/politics/donald-trump-declassify-documents/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

Also, it looks like Mueller is allowing Flynn not to be sentenced until after the elections. I read that often investigations don't release information, charges, reports or court proceedings in the last two months before an election. Of course, the notable exception being Comey releasing the fact he was looking into Clinton just days before the presidential election. My guess is Trump won't be reciprical and stop his attack on the Russian probe.