Author Topic: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"  (Read 1536 times)

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Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2018, 04:09:37 PM »

Offline gift

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As Scott says today, "Kyrie is one of those players who gets bored after a couple of years. He's wired differently than most. He needs to be stimulated. He needs another adventure."

That's kind of concerning.

Whereas IT still seems sad that he's not playing for the Celtics.

Hopefully the Celts continue to provide new adventures and challenges for Kyrie ....

Well Danny Ainge needs new adventures every couple of years too and will probably trade Kyrie at just the right time for the next best thing.  ;)

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2018, 04:28:38 PM »

Offline saltlover

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As Scott says today, "Kyrie is one of those players who gets bored after a couple of years. He's wired differently than most. He needs to be stimulated. He needs another adventure."

That's kind of concerning.

Whereas IT still seems sad that he's not playing for the Celtics.

Hopefully the Celts continue to provide new adventures and challenges for Kyrie ....

I get where Kyrie is coming from.  About once every two years I find another job.  Been at my current position for 27 months, and last night I submitted an application to go somewhere else.  Some of us just get bored a little more quickly, or get that feeling like if you stay in one place you’ll fall off the Earth.

(P.S.  Danny, if you’re reading this, I’d never get bored working for you.)
2018 Mock Trade Deadline:

Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2018, 04:40:18 PM »

Online triboy16f

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random thought

remember when folks toasted Jackie regarding the Rumor that Ainge was shopping IT4 in the 2016 draft

looks like she was right

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 04:51:32 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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The most astonishing thing from that article is that the Cavs had a 3 team trade lined up with Pheonix and Indiana to send out Irving and Channing Frye and get back Eric Bledsoe and Paul George but the sticking point became that the Cavs insisted on getting the Sun's #4 pick (which became Josh Jackson) which they weren't willing to give up.

Holy cow... Imagine Eric Bledsoe, Paul George, Lebron James, Kevin Love, and Tristan Thompson on the same team?  Jeeze... I guess a guaranteed Championship wasn't enough for the Cavs.

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2018, 04:58:51 PM »

Offline Dannys Chipotle Guy

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The most astonishing thing from that article is that the Cavs had a 3 team trade lined up with Pheonix and Indiana to send out Irving and Channing Frye and get back Eric Bledsoe and Paul George but the sticking point became that the Cavs insisted on getting the Sun's #4 pick (which became Josh Jackson) which they weren't willing to give up.

Holy cow... Imagine Eric Bledsoe, Paul George, Lebron James, Kevin Love, and Tristan Thompson on the same team?  Jeeze... I guess a guaranteed Championship wasn't enough for the Cavs.
I dont think the Cavs insisted on the #4 pick.

I think Phoenix had to agree to give it up to Indiana in exchange for Irving.

They refused. Not really the Cavs being greedy.

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2018, 04:59:13 PM »

Offline saltlover

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random thought

remember when folks toasted Jackie regarding the Rumor that Ainge was shopping IT4 in the 2016 draft

looks like she was right

No, that rumor was still a load of hokum.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline:

Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2018, 05:23:35 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Interesting that Jackie intimates that Lebron might have been behind the Irving to Phoenix and Bledsoe and George to Cleveland trade because Bledsoe and Lebron are both represented from the same management group. If that's true, I can understand Kyrie not wanting to be around Lebron any more and going to management to request a trade.

It's pretty clear Lebron is running things in Cleveland (if it wasn't already clear).

Kyrie saw that, and bolted before Lebron could do anything else (or before Lebron left and left him with the "mess").

EVEN if Lebron stays, that team around him is not sustainable. Lots of bad contracts, paying into the luxury tax already and still have guys like Isaiah to pay. And good luck getting rid of some of the "dead-weight" contracts.

They won't be able to sign anymore max deals for a while, or have the assets necessary to add another star without shopping Love and/or the Nets Pick (which seems more like a lateral move, unless somehow it lands you Anthony Davis).
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2018, 08:41:49 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:

Quote
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.

"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."

"Why?" Irving asked.

"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."

"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."

"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.

"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.

According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.

oof

Quote
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.

at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part.  Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player.  Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
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Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2018, 08:45:17 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Interesting that Jackie intimates that Lebron might have been behind the Irving to Phoenix and Bledsoe and George to Cleveland trade because Bledsoe and Lebron are both represented from the same management group. If that's true, I can understand Kyrie not wanting to be around Lebron any more and going to management to request a trade.
Jackie doesn't intimate that, she says that Irving believed James was behind it, though Jackie pretty clearly reports Griffin initiated the talks because he was aware that Irving was unhappy.
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Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2018, 08:48:17 AM »

Offline chilidawg

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I'm surprised at the "leaving is inevitable" tag, as I didn't get that from the article.  Maybe after they started shopping him that was the case, but it didn't come across that way to me prior to that.

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2018, 09:01:41 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:

Quote
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.

"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."

"Why?" Irving asked.

"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."

"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."

"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.

"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.

According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.

oof

Quote
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.

at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part.  Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player.  Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.

Says a lot about what kind of leader LBJ is too though. He left MIA to play with younger stars, Kyrie in particular, then forced the trade for Love. And he didn't keep them together.  Doesn't seem like he tried. He just dominates every aspect of a franchise. 

Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2018, 09:29:47 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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As far as the quotes were Kyrie was disgruntled: well he sounds disgruntled.  He was angry because they tried to trade him and he wasn't happy with how they were playing or the dynamic between him and LeBron.  I wouldn't make a big deal out of a guy showing that frustration.  The "ask 23" comment to me just shows Kyrie poking at how it is all LeBron's team.  He was always the off ball guy, not the playmaker who runs things.
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Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2018, 09:46:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

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As far as the quotes were Kyrie was disgruntled: well he sounds disgruntled.  He was angry because they tried to trade him and he wasn't happy with how they were playing or the dynamic between him and LeBron.  I wouldn't make a big deal out of a guy showing that frustration.  The "ask 23" comment to me just shows Kyrie poking at how it is all LeBron's team.  He was always the off ball guy, not the playmaker who runs things.
except last year when Irving had the ball more than James (he took more shots also).
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Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2018, 09:48:00 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Regarding the fear of Kyrie to get bored and also the troubling interaction with Lue, I think Brad Stevens helps a lot with both.

Stevens being a good coach is too often thrown around as a cure-all for any potential problems but I think, in this case, his style is perfectly suited to dealing with Kyrie's issues. Stevens is the type of coach who can bring players into the fold and make them feel like they're part of the process. He dictates principles, but not plays and not style. And he knows that someone like Kyrie needs to be involved and that Kyrie is intelligent enough to make him a sort of partner as a team leader.

I think that same thing helps with the fear of Kyrie getting bored. He got bored in Cleveland when everything was about Lebron and all he was being asked to do was score. By being asked to do more for the Celtics (in terms of leadership both on and off the court) he's less likely to get bored.

And I think Stevens is not the kind of coach to go to a player and say something as simplistic as "play faster." I'm no NBA coach but that type of direction seems like it wouldn't be all that effective for anyone, especially someone who thinks of himself as an intellectual like Kyrie. A good coach knows that different people are reached in different ways. I think Stevens knows that and Kyrie's own admission about that exchange is encouraging.
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Re: Great Jackie Mac Article: Irving Says "Leaving Was Inevitable"
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2018, 10:56:29 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:

Quote
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.

"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."

"Why?" Irving asked.

"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."

"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."

"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.

"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.

According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.

oof

Quote
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.

at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part.  Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player.  Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.

That quote DEFINITELY shows that Kyrie handled that situation like a complete Diva.