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DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« on: December 29, 2017, 11:40:10 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Ed Davis is who he is at this point — a plus rebounder on both ends, an average interior defender, and a rim runner on offense.  In other words, he’s a serviceable big.

He makes $6.3 million in the last year of his deal, and is in Portland’s rotation.  So he’s better than the scrapheap (and Javale McGee) and fits in the DPE.

At the same time, Portland is over the luxury tax, and shipping off Davis would take them under the cap.  Furthermore, they have significant depth in their bigs, and could absorb Davis’ loss by giving more minutes to rookie lottery pick Zach Collins, as well as Meyers Leonard and Noah Vonleh.

Accordingly the price should not be high, given that Portland receives tax relief and a medium-sized trade exception.  Cash considerations or a heavily-protected 2nd should be the cost, I think.

Thoughts?  If Davis is the result of the DPE, at a very low cost, would that be a good outcome?
2018 Mock Trade Deadline:

Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.

Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 11:45:32 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I wouldn't want him to get minutes ahead of Baynes or Theis, so I'm not sure there's a point.  The Celts have 3 quality rotation players who can get minutes at center.

The DPE should be used on a player who can provide bench scoring, particularly if Morris misses more time with injuries.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 11:48:01 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I still think a "Lou Williams" or "Tyreke Evans" or even "Marco Belinelli" is the piece we need to go after.

A legitimate scoring threat off the bench (a sharpshooter).

Looking at last night's game, Eric Gordon did play quite a few minutes while our bench was out there, and he was torching them while the C's didn't really have an answer (especially first half of the game).

We may see a lot of those kind of bench scorers come playoff time from teams like Toronto, Washington, Cleveland, etc., and I feel we could really use the upgrade there. Marcus Morris should help, maybe (BIG maybe) if Hayward returns and comes off the bench very late in the season, that could help too. But that's a bigger area of need IMHO.

Now Eric Gordon hasn't been a bench player much of this season, but he usually is when CP3 plays and is healthy.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 11:55:20 AM by Phantom255x »
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 11:56:21 AM »

Offline Granath

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saltlover, your post establishes that Davis would fit under the exception and wouldn't be costly. What is doesn't answer is "why". What does this "serviceable big" get us that we don't already have with Baynes and Theis? How does he fit in the rotation? What need does he fill?
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 12:07:21 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I still think a "Lou Williams" or "Tyreke Evans" or even "Marco Belinelli" is the piece we need to go after.

A legitimate scoring threat off the bench (a sharpshooter).

Looking at last night's game, Eric Gordon did play quite a few minutes while our bench was out there, and he was torching them while the C's didn't really have an answer (especially first half of the game).

We may see a lot of those kind of bench scorers come playoff time from teams like Toronto, Washington, Cleveland, etc., and I feel we could really use the upgrade there. Marcus Morris should help, maybe (BIG maybe) if Hayward returns and comes off the bench very late in the season, that could help too. But that's a bigger area of need IMHO.

I don’t expect either Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans to be moved.  Clippers are going to push for the playoffs when Blake gets back (they’re only 3.5 games of the 7/8 spots), and Memphis will look to resign Tyreke in the offseason. 

The way the playoffs line up today, we could see Miami in the first round (Whiteside) and Detroit in the second round (Drummond).  I think having an additional big who’s best skill is defensive rebounding would be significantly more useful than a bench scorer for those matchups.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline:

Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.

Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 12:10:36 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I still think a "Lou Williams" or "Tyreke Evans" or even "Marco Belinelli" is the piece we need to go after.

A legitimate scoring threat off the bench (a sharpshooter).

Looking at last night's game, Eric Gordon did play quite a few minutes while our bench was out there, and he was torching them while the C's didn't really have an answer (especially first half of the game).

We may see a lot of those kind of bench scorers come playoff time from teams like Toronto, Washington, Cleveland, etc., and I feel we could really use the upgrade there. Marcus Morris should help, maybe (BIG maybe) if Hayward returns and comes off the bench very late in the season, that could help too. But that's a bigger area of need IMHO.

I don’t expect either Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans to be moved.  Clippers are going to push for the playoffs when Blake gets back (they’re only 3.5 games of the 7/8 spots), and Memphis will look to resign Tyreke in the offseason. 

The way the playoffs line up today, we could see Miami in the first round (Whiteside) and Detroit in the second round (Drummond).  I think having an additional big who’s best skill is defensive rebounding would be significantly more useful than a bench scorer for those matchups.

What about Belinelli? Hawks look to be tanking and could move him.

As for the additional big, I think Danny may be hoping the Suns buy-out someone (like Chandler, or Monroe, or Len?), or is simply waiting for buy-out options to open up before thinking about a trade.

I could see the logic behind going after an additional big based on potential playoff matchups though (as you mentioned).
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 12:12:51 PM »

Offline byennie

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I'd be interested. He would come in as the best rebounder on the team, and adds both depth & size to the lineup. I like Theis and Yabusele, but we don't have a lot of options up front with Baynes' offensive limitations and Morris' knee, and neither Horford nor Baynes spend much time above the rim.

If there's someone better available, great, but I do see Davis as an upgrade to our bench, who is also capable of starting if necessary.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2017, 12:16:19 PM »

Offline saltlover

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saltlover, your post establishes that Davis would fit under the exception and wouldn't be costly. What is doesn't answer is "why". What does this "serviceable big" get us that we don't already have with Baynes and Theis? How does he fit in the rotation? What need does he fill?

I cover this a bit in my response to Phantom, in that he would be a useful player to have in matchups vs. Whiteside and Drummond, who would be our opponent in the first two rounds as of today (with no upsets).  I think he’s an upgrade to Theis, personally.  (I like Theis, and he was a great find — just think Davis is better at a rather similar role).

Ultimately any expiring you can get within the salary limits is going to be a flawed player filling a limited role.  I don’t think we’re getting anyone who will play 25 minutes a night, regardless of that role.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline:

Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.

Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 12:20:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'd be interested. He would come in as the best rebounder on the team, and adds both depth & size to the lineup.

I don't think the rebounding or size is all that valuable for this team, though.

A guy like Ed Davis is way too easy for opponents to force off the floor in a playoff series because he can't be trusted to do anything offensively.

It's key that a guy like Baynes can hit an open mid range shot and has some passing and minor dribbling ability.  There's really not much room in the league anymore for guys who can only take a single dribble and finish within 5 feet, unless they're absolute physical freaks, which Ed Davis is not.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 12:21:34 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Ultimately any expiring you can get within the salary limits is going to be a flawed player filling a limited role.  I don’t think we’re getting anyone who will play 25 minutes a night, regardless of that role.

I think this is right, but I'd rather go after a limited offensive player (i.e. a shooter who can get time at either wing spot) than a limited 6'9'' center.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 01:05:32 PM »

Offline byennie

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I'd be interested. He would come in as the best rebounder on the team, and adds both depth & size to the lineup.

I don't think the rebounding or size is all that valuable for this team, though.

A guy like Ed Davis is way too easy for opponents to force off the floor in a playoff series because he can't be trusted to do anything offensively.

It's key that a guy like Baynes can hit an open mid range shot and has some passing and minor dribbling ability.  There's really not much room in the league anymore for guys who can only take a single dribble and finish within 5 feet, unless they're absolute physical freaks, which Ed Davis is not.

I agree that Davis causes spacing issues, but I think that's a little one-sided thinking. Plenty of teams still survive for stretches with a non-shooter at center, and we only have one guy on our roster (Baynes) that can guard bigger 5s. Davis is 7th in the entire league in rebounds per 48. That's a useful playoff skill.

10 years ago Davis might still be starting, so yeah, the modern game has downgraded him. But there is still a use for 6'10" guys with near-elite rebounding and good defense.



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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 01:15:36 PM »

Offline byennie

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It might be worth noting that we have settled in as a completely average (and falling) rebounding team this year. Partly by system/design as usual, but the early season rebounding surge has been fully reversed.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 01:21:07 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It might be worth noting that we have settled in as a completely average (and falling) rebounding team this year. Partly by system/design as usual, but the early season rebounding surge has been fully reversed.

It's a valid concern, but I don't think rebounding is an issue you can afford to fix by compromising other areas, such as offensive competence.

Ed Davis just would not fit at all in this offense.  Brad's system requires bigs that can operate a dribble handoff, pass, cut, and make wide open mid range shots.  I don't see how Ed Davis fits into that at all.  It's not just the lack of shooting.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 01:42:56 PM »

Offline byennie

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It might be worth noting that we have settled in as a completely average (and falling) rebounding team this year. Partly by system/design as usual, but the early season rebounding surge has been fully reversed.

It's a valid concern, but I don't think rebounding is an issue you can afford to fix by compromising other areas, such as offensive competence.

Ed Davis just would not fit at all in this offense.  Brad's system requires bigs that can operate a dribble handoff, pass, cut, and make wide open mid range shots.  I don't see how Ed Davis fits into that at all.  It's not just the lack of shooting.

Fair enough. I guess of course it comes down to what's available. He's maybe an odd fit, but also pretty high on talent for "free"/ insurance policy.

I wouldn't hate a Belinelli sighting, of course.
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Re: DPE Idea: Ed Davis
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 01:55:33 PM »

Offline saltlover

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It might be worth noting that we have settled in as a completely average (and falling) rebounding team this year. Partly by system/design as usual, but the early season rebounding surge has been fully reversed.

It's a valid concern, but I don't think rebounding is an issue you can afford to fix by compromising other areas, such as offensive competence.

Ed Davis just would not fit at all in this offense.  Brad's system requires bigs that can operate a dribble handoff, pass, cut, and make wide open mid range shots.  I don't see how Ed Davis fits into that at all.  It's not just the lack of shooting.

It matters for some matchups.  As the originator of this thread, I completely agree that there are some teams against which Davis would be pretty useless, such as Golden State and Houston.  But against a team like Detroit, it would be very useful to have two players who can fill the center role against Drummond, leaving Al at the 4 for the majority of the game.  The same is true with Miami and New York, all of which are teams we could see in the first two rounds.

One of the main things that make Stevens a terrific coach is that he’s very good at figuring out how to put players in roles that maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.  Davis isn’t a good passer?  Then you don’t put him in situations where he’s supposed to pass.  He’s a great rebounder? Then you don’t have him switch on defense.  He gets 50% more screen assists per minute than Baynes, and double that of Horford?  There’s a role for that in the offense.

Again, he’s a backup big who might get 15 minutes a game against some teams sometimes.  But those could be a very useful 15 minutes, helping to prevent another series like we had against Chicago last year.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline:

Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.