Poll

Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a wing in the current NBA?

1-5 (come on!)
6-8
9-10
11-12
13-20

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Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« on: December 25, 2017, 04:59:34 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Brown has out-performed expectations so far this season, but it got me thinking about how good he currently is compared to other players and how many wing players I would rather have than Brown moving forward.

He plays guard because of his quickness, but his ideal position is more off-ball than on-ball. For that reason, I will be comparing him to more “wing” type players than “guard” type players. If the way I determine this seems fuzzy, it’s because positions in the NBA are fuzzy. Largely, I took the “small forwards” from the ESPN database for comparison.

The group that Brown at his best would be lucky to attain to …
Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Lebron James, Jimmy Butler, and Kevin Durant.

I like Brown. Although he has comparable athleticism to some of the guys on that list, his ball skills are seriously lacking compared to those guys.

The group of other young guys that are trying to ascend the ranks:
Stanley Johnson, Dillon Brooks, Og Anunoby, Josh Jackson, Kelly Oubre Jr., Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, and Taurean Prince.

No other guy on this list has showed as much two-way potential as Brown. He is averaging more points than any player on that list, and is also arguably the best athlete of any player in that list, considering size, strength, length, explosiveness, and agility. Though he is not a rookie, he is also the third youngest player on the list to Jackson (by 5 months) and OG Anunoby (by 15 months), which means he has plenty of upside potential left.

The group that Brown has already surpassed:
Jerami Grant, Darius Miller, Thabo Sefalosa, Kyle Anderson, Doug McDermott, Chandler Parsons, Denzel Valentine, Norman Powell, CJ Miles, Wilson Chandler, Joe Ingles, Jeff Green, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Michael Beasley, Rudy Gay, Trevor Ariza, Josh Richardson, Demare Carroll, Robert Covington, and Bojan Bogdonavic.

All of the players listed above are already averaging less than Jaylen Brown as a scorer this season. On top of that, he is at least comparable, if not clearly better than any of them on defense. And he is the youngest on the list with the highest upside. And he is the best athlete of any on the list. Brown has already surpassed everyone on this list.

(Robert Covington’s inclusion on this list instead of the next was not meant as a slight. He could go in either one. After I got done writing this article, I considered moving him down, but did not want to rewrite the next section. Besides, although Covington is a dangerously streaky shooter and a good defender, Brown is a comparable defender, is younger, and is more athletic. He also has more potential as a scorer.)

Currently in his tier:
Brandon Ingram, Tobias Harris, Andrew Wiggins, Evan Fournier, Harrison Barnes, Otto Porter Jr., Jayson Tatum, TJ Warren, and Khris Middleton.

Let’s go through some of the most important attributes for a wing and see how Brown ranks.

Brown is clearly the best defender of the group (1/10)
Brown is the best athlete of the group (1/10). Although Wiggins is explosive, he is notorious for not being able to harness his athleticism into basketball plays, and he is not nearly as strong as Brown.
Brown is the third youngest (3/10) to Brandon Ingram and Jayson Tatum.
Brown is the fifth best shooter (5/10) to Harris, Fournier, Tatum, and Porter, but is clearly a better shooter than Wiggins or Warren.
Brown is the fifth best rebounder (5/10) to Porter, Barnes, Tatum, and Warren.
As far as shot creation goes, I’m going to use the “percentile” stats in four wing scoring categories (transition scoring, isolation scoring, pick-and-roll ball-handler scoring, and postup scoring), and combine the percentiles to form a very general (and flawed, but useful) “wing” shot creation stat. When you do this, Brown is the second worse shot-creator (9/10) to Brandon Ingram, and just below Andrew Wiggins on this list (Jayson Tatum is the best!). The eye test and stats bear out that Brown is an average shot-creator at the NBA level right now. However, each player on this list (other than Tatum) has at least 3-4 more years of experience than Brown, and each player was far worse at shot creation than Brown at the same point in their career.
I think Brown compares very favorably to this group of players. It’s not a given, but it’s fair to project that Brown will likely end up better than anyone (save possibly Tatum and Ingram) on this list.

But this article wasn’t just about projection; this was also about his current ranking. With that we have to ask this question: how many of those players would you take over Brown to win a game right now? I wouldn’t take Ingram, Wiggins, Fournier, Porter, or Warren over him to win a game right now.

Luckily for Celtics fans, we don’t have to choose between Brown and Tatum. Harris and Barnes are both good scorers with below average defense and poor facilitating. On the other hand, Brown is a below average scorer with great defense and poor facilitating. If you wanted to win a game today, it might depend on match-ups and the make-up of your team, but I’d always opt for good defenders in a situation like this.

The only guy from this group that I would maybe take over Brown to win a game right now is Khris Middleton, but I wouldn’t take him over Brown if I was building a team for the next 10 years.

In the end, I think you could certainly argue that Brown is already a top 10 wing in the NBA. Depending on how you rank other players, he may even be as high as 6th.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 06:45:49 PM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 06:08:51 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I would say he’s already a top 10 wing. If crowder can be considered top 10 as of last season, then brown absolutely is

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2017, 06:10:44 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Lower end of the top ten, so I voted 9-10. Until he improves his handle, free throw shooting and consistency he'll stay in that 8-10 range
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2017, 07:34:42 PM »

Offline billysan

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For me he has only cracked the top 10 on defense. Possibly even top 7.

Until he improves his facilitator and shot creation skills he rests in the 11 to 12 range in my opinion.

Ball handling is in need of improvement as well.

All in all though he is a keeper until we make a run at Davis. Then we keep Tatum instead.

I didn't see Bazemore on your lists. Did i miss him?
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Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2017, 07:47:46 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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For me he has only cracked the top 10 on defense. Possibly even top 7.

Until he improves his facilitator and shot creation skills he rests in the 11 to 12 range in my opinion.

Ball handling is in need of improvement as well.

All in all though he is a keeper until we make a run at Davis. Then we keep Tatum instead.

I didn't see Bazemore on your lists. Did i miss him?

Doesn't look like he is, but he'd be in the second that he is clearly ahead of.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 07:48:50 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Demar Derozan says "come on man, wt to the f?"

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 07:50:01 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Demar Derozan says "come on man, ****?"

I've got him more of a guard (he's played 2-guard his entire career), but again, this is where positions in the NBA get fuzzy.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2017, 08:00:35 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Average starter.


Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2017, 08:53:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think wings are either 2 or 3s. Its seems like you are just trying to hype up Brown's position by throwing out the SGs when Brown is actually a SG. Sorry but as a true 2-3 wing, I don't think he is even a top 20 wing in this leaguem Heck there are 2 players on the Celtics that are better wings than Brown....Tatum and Hayward.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2017, 08:57:44 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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I think wings are either 2 or 3s. Its seems like you are just trying to hype up Brown's position by throwing out the SGs when Brown is actually a SG. Sorry but as a true 2-3 wing, I don't think he is even a top 20 wing in this leaguem Heck there are 2 players on the Celtics that are better wings than Brown....Tatum and Hayward.

Brown shoots around 45 percent and 40 percent from three and is one of the better defenders in the league. That's good to be at least top 20.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2017, 09:03:22 PM »

Offline billysan

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Another name that should be in this conversation is Kuzma. He is clearly talented enough and is a wing.
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Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Like the first part says, I took players mostly from the small forward ranking on ESPN. Positions are largely arbitrary in the NBA. Kuzma, DeRozan, and others could have been included. Apologies for missing any. I still thinking analyzing Jaylen against the players on this list gives us a feeling for his ranking in the NBA.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2017, 09:14:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think wings are either 2 or 3s. Its seems like you are just trying to hype up Brown's position by throwing out the SGs when Brown is actually a SG. Sorry but as a true 2-3 wing, I don't think he is even a top 20 wing in this leaguem Heck there are 2 players on the Celtics that are better wings than Brown....Tatum and Hayward.

Brown shoots around 45 percent and 40 percent from three and is one of the better defenders in the league. That's good to be at least top 20.

Giannis
Lebron
Durant
Oladipo
DeRozan
Hayward
Kawhi
Butler
George
Tatum
Beal
Thompson
Middleton
McCollum
Booker
Wiggins
Porter Jr
Eric Gordon
Warren
Fournier
Bradley
Harris
Hood
Harrison
 
That's 24 I think that at this point in Brown's career are better wings than Brown. There's probably 2-3 more that are on the same level as Brown, Ingram and Covington come to mind.

Not hating on Brown as he and Tatum are easily my favorite Celtics. But Brown ain't a top 20 wing in this league yet. Give him some time. Be patient. He will be easily someday be a top 5-7 wings in this league soon enough.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2017, 09:20:29 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Ehh, Brown is already better than some of the forwards you've listed.

Re: Where does Jaylen Brown rank as a Wing in the Current NBA?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2017, 01:51:18 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Jaylens made a leap in teens of overall production, but he doesn’t look like a future star to me.  He’s trending toward good athlete, complimentary player (which is fine, not everyone can be a star).  Jaylen pretty much gets his when he’s not the focus of the defense.  His handle is still very shaky, his shot streaky, and his basketball IQ below average.

Can he improve in those areas?  Sure, but several of his peers have as much potential without those holes in their game.  Jaylen doesn’t look like he’ll ever be a guy you can just give the ball too and ask him to get points for you in bunches.  Every few games he plays really hard and gets his but he can’t sustain that kind of energy nor can will it be consistently translate to production.