Author Topic: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)  (Read 4079 times)

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Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2017, 11:49:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Putting aside everything else --If Mueller proves to your satisfaction that Trump and the Russians coordinated press releases, the release of dirt on Hillary, manipulating the Republican position on the Ukraine, targeting political positions on facebook and business deals for Manafort, Flynn and Jared, etc.--is it treason (in the common meaning of the word) and should Trump be impeached?

Why not wait to see what Mueller proves and what you all think of what evidence he has?  Some of the coincidences, plus Flynn's guilty plea and Manafort's charges certainly lead to possibilities.  Or do you see the worse case scenario for Trump as politics as usual?

Why do Trump supporters have to "wait and see" before coming to any conclusions, yet his detractors can just go about talking in certainties about his guilt?

I seriously doubt any everyday citizen really knows what happened, if anything at all, or the scope and depth of what happened if something did actually happen. It gets tiring listening to people on either side talking like they actually know, when they likely have nothing other than biased suspicions based on whatever slanted news source they choose to listen to.

Well, Manafort and Gen. Flynn are GREAT starts.

Even MORE reason to see this thing through to the VERY end.

Oh, I agree the investigations should continue, unimpeded by anyone with something to lose.

I just happen to find it rather distasteful so many people have already decided in their own mind who is or isn't guilty without waiting for the facts of the investigation.
I'm a liberal...no surprise to anyone who has been on this sit for a while. But the circumstantial evidence as well the timeline evidence against Trump's transition and election team, as well as the stuff they have nabbed Flynn and Manafort on, is just too overwhelming for just about any American citizen to just partisanly dismiss. I don't think they will nab Trump, but the man did dirty stuff and a lot of the people around him are going to go down for it.

But....

What's happened at the top of the FBI and how they seriously screwed up the Clinton investigation and passed over this Clinton involvement with McCabe's wife is pretty dirty there too. I honestly don't think Clinton did anything wrong with her emails as SOS. But the Clinton Foundation and who they handed out money to is dirty as hell and probably broke all sorts of laws.

I want all of them who broke the law and conspired to hurt this country to go down....Clintons and Trumps. They all suck.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #46 on: December 25, 2017, 12:00:06 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Putting aside everything else --If Mueller proves to your satisfaction that Trump and the Russians coordinated press releases, the release of dirt on Hillary, manipulating the Republican position on the Ukraine, targeting political positions on facebook and business deals for Manafort, Flynn and Jared, etc.--is it treason (in the common meaning of the word) and should Trump be impeached?

Why not wait to see what Mueller proves and what you all think of what evidence he has?  Some of the coincidences, plus Flynn's guilty plea and Manafort's charges certainly lead to possibilities.  Or do you see the worse case scenario for Trump as politics as usual?

Why do Trump supporters have to "wait and see" before coming to any conclusions, yet his detractors can just go about talking in certainties about his guilt?

I seriously doubt any everyday citizen really knows what happened, if anything at all, or the scope and depth of what happened if something did actually happen. It gets tiring listening to people on either side talking like they actually know, when they likely have nothing other than biased suspicions based on whatever slanted news source they choose to listen to.

Well, Manafort and Gen. Flynn are GREAT starts.

Even MORE reason to see this thing through to the VERY end.

Oh, I agree the investigations should continue, unimpeded by anyone with something to lose.

I just happen to find it rather distasteful so many people have already decided in their own mind who is or isn't guilty without waiting for the facts of the investigation.
I'm a liberal...no surprise to anyone who has been on this sit for a while. But the circumstantial evidence as well the timeline evidence against Trump's transition and election team, as well as the stuff they have nabbed Flynn and Manafort on, is just too overwhelming for just about any American citizen to just partisanly dismiss. I don't think they will nab Trump, but the man did dirty stuff and a lot of the people around him are going to go down for it.

But....

What's happened at the top of the FBI and how they seriously screwed up the Clinton investigation and passed over this Clinton involvement with McCabe's wife is pretty dirty there too. I honestly don't think Clinton did anything wrong with her emails as SOS. But the Clinton Foundation and who they handed out money to is dirty as hell and probably broke all sorts of laws.

I want all of them who broke the law and conspired to hurt this country to go down....Clintons and Trumps. They all suck.

Again, you won't get any disagreement from me there.  It's one of the bigger reasons why I didn't vote for either of them.  I just wish more people would have chose to not vote for either of them.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #47 on: December 25, 2017, 12:02:03 AM »

Offline SCeltic34

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The only reason that there is a Mueller investigation, is because the FBI used a fake dossier to be able to spy on Trump's team (Insurance Policy)....Lots of dirty work atop the FBI.

Eh, I don't think that's it.  If Trump hadn't fired Comey at an inopportune time, Rosenstein probably wouldn't have appointed Mueller.  If Trump wanted Comey gone, he should have gotten rid of him soon after he seized power and probably shouldn't have make such a stupid remark about how firing Comey took a load off.  Recall also that Comey informed Trump personally about the dossier. 

Both Comey and McCabe have gone under oath and McCabe has corroborated Comey's testimony.  Trump has not gone under oath while calling Comey a liar.  That should count for something, unless you're so far gone for Trump that you're willing to ignore that.

It's remarkable how all of a sudden the FBI is a completely untrustworthy entity as a whole.  The FBI is supposed to be independent, but it's increasingly being pressured by the Trump administration and House Republicans.  Let the investigation carry out and stop trying to delegitimize it with nonsense.  As before, if Trump is innocent, he, his legal team, and all supporting Republicans should have no fear if this is the case.  It's very simple.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 01:35:38 AM by SCeltic34 »


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Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2017, 12:24:00 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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The only reason that there is a Mueller investigation, is because the FBI used a fake dossier to be able to spy on Trump's team (Insurance Policy)....Lots of dirty work atop the FBI.

Eh, I don't think that's it.  If Trump hadn't fired Comey at an inopportune time, Rosenstein probably wouldn't have appointed Mueller.  If Trump wanted Comey gone, he should have gotten rid of him soon after he seized power and probably shouldn't have make such a stupid remark about how firing Comey took a load off.  Recall also that Comey informed Trump personally about the dossier. 

Both Comey and McCabe have gone under oath and McCabe has corroborated Comey's testimony.  Trump has not gone under oath while calling Comey a liar.  That should count for something, unless you're so far gone for Trump that you're willing to ignore that.

It's remarkable how all of a sudden the FBI is a completely untrustworthy entity as a whole.  The FBI is supposed to be independent, but it's increasingly being pressured by the Trump administration and House Republications.  Let the investigation carry out and stop trying to delegitimize it with nonsense.  As before, if Trump is innocent, he, his legal team, and all supporting Republicans should have no fear if this is the case.  It's very simple.
What I find hilarious, coming from a family with a lot of ton of people in law enforcement, is how Trump and his people are trying to paint the entire FBI as Democratically partisan. Law enforcement is a bastion of conservatism. There is zero chance the FBI conspired against Trump. Some idiots at the top made some texts against Trump and they obviously weren't for Trump, though not obviously Democrat. But that doesn't make the entire FBI a bunch a severely left leaning, Trump hating, liberals. It doesn't mean those people who hated Trump even did anything wrong. Everyone has there political beliefs and they stated them in texts monitored by the FBI.

But as I said, I don't like what I am seeing from the Clinton Foundation and their involvement in a lot if things, including  McCabe's wife, but I am not ready to throw the entire FBI down the drain like our president over it. I have a hard time not thinking that Trump is just trying to blow smoke elsewhere to keep the focus off him. Its what he has done his whole business life before becoming president. I don't know why it would be such a stretch to think he isn't doing it again.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #49 on: December 25, 2017, 01:47:08 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Putting aside everything else --If Mueller proves to your satisfaction that Trump and the Russians coordinated press releases, the release of dirt on Hillary, manipulating the Republican position on the Ukraine, targeting political positions on facebook and business deals for Manafort, Flynn and Jared, etc.--is it treason (in the common meaning of the word) and should Trump be impeached?

Why not wait to see what Mueller proves and what you all think of what evidence he has?  Some of the coincidences, plus Flynn's guilty plea and Manafort's charges certainly lead to possibilities.  Or do you see the worse case scenario for Trump as politics as usual?

Why do Trump supporters have to "wait and see" before coming to any conclusions, yet his detractors can just go about talking in certainties about his guilt?

I seriously doubt any everyday citizen really knows what happened, if anything at all, or the scope and depth of what happened if something did actually happen. It gets tiring listening to people on either side talking like they actually know, when they likely have nothing other than biased suspicions based on whatever slanted news source they choose to listen to.

Well, Manafort and Gen. Flynn are GREAT starts.

Even MORE reason to see this thing through to the VERY end.

Oh, I agree the investigations should continue, unimpeded by anyone with something to lose.

I just happen to find it rather distasteful so many people have already decided in their own mind who is or isn't guilty without waiting for the facts of the investigation.
I'm a liberal...no surprise to anyone who has been on this sit for a while. But the circumstantial evidence as well the timeline evidence against Trump's transition and election team, as well as the stuff they have nabbed Flynn and Manafort on, is just too overwhelming for just about any American citizen to just partisanly dismiss. I don't think they will nab Trump, but the man did dirty stuff and a lot of the people around him are going to go down for it.

But....

What's happened at the top of the FBI and how they seriously screwed up the Clinton investigation and passed over this Clinton involvement with McCabe's wife is pretty dirty there too. I honestly don't think Clinton did anything wrong with her emails as SOS. But the Clinton Foundation and who they handed out money to is dirty as hell and probably broke all sorts of laws.

I want all of them who broke the law and conspired to hurt this country to go down....Clintons and Trumps. They all suck.

Again, you won't get any disagreement from me there.  It's one of the bigger reasons why I didn't vote for either of them.  I just wish more people would have chose to not vote for either of them.
Incredibly frustrating that the two parties offered up Clinton and Trump for the highest office in the land.

Hopefully the dems can put forth a good candidate in 2020
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2017, 04:44:16 AM »

Offline blink

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The only reason that there is a Mueller investigation, is because the FBI used a fake dossier to be able to spy on Trump's team (Insurance Policy)....Lots of dirty work atop the FBI.

Eh, I don't think that's it.  If Trump hadn't fired Comey at an inopportune time, Rosenstein probably wouldn't have appointed Mueller.  If Trump wanted Comey gone, he should have gotten rid of him soon after he seized power and probably shouldn't have make such a stupid remark about how firing Comey took a load off.  Recall also that Comey informed Trump personally about the dossier. 

Both Comey and McCabe have gone under oath and McCabe has corroborated Comey's testimony.  Trump has not gone under oath while calling Comey a liar.  That should count for something, unless you're so far gone for Trump that you're willing to ignore that.

It's remarkable how all of a sudden the FBI is a completely untrustworthy entity as a whole.  The FBI is supposed to be independent, but it's increasingly being pressured by the Trump administration and House Republications.  Let the investigation carry out and stop trying to delegitimize it with nonsense.  As before, if Trump is innocent, he, his legal team, and all supporting Republicans should have no fear if this is the case.  It's very simple.

I have a hard time not thinking that Trump is just trying to blow smoke elsewhere to keep the focus off him.


Bingo!  we have a winner here.  Distraction Distraction Distraction.  Basically at this point it is all Trump has.  Amazingly, it is still working on some people.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2017, 07:23:11 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I'm a liberal...no surprise to anyone who has been on this sit for a while. But the circumstantial evidence as well the timeline evidence against Trump's transition and election team, as well as the stuff they have nabbed Flynn and Manafort on, is just too overwhelming for just about any American citizen to just partisanly dismiss. I don't think they will nab Trump, but the man did dirty stuff and a lot of the people around him are going to go down for it.

But....

What's happened at the top of the FBI and how they seriously screwed up the Clinton investigation and passed over this Clinton involvement with McCabe's wife is pretty dirty there too. I honestly don't think Clinton did anything wrong with her emails as SOS. But the Clinton Foundation and who they handed out money to is dirty as hell and probably broke all sorts of laws.

I want all of them who broke the law and conspired to hurt this country to go down....Clintons and Trumps. They all suck.l

I too, think all of them who broke the law should go down.   Both sides were played by the Russians and seeking information to damage the other candidate.   Justice should not be selective because one agent changed the language to make one side not get prosecuted.  I hope Mueller slams both sides of the aisle.  I think it may happen for this reason:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mueller-probe-draws-in-tony-podesta-vin-weber-ap/

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-downfall-of-the-podesta-group/article/2640518

Tony Podesta's brother is John Podesta aka the Campaign Manager for Hillary.

We know he is going after Trump and rightfully so but could both parties be in for a surprise..

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2017, 09:14:31 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Putting aside everything else --If Mueller proves to your satisfaction that Trump and the Russians coordinated press releases, the release of dirt on Hillary, manipulating the Republican position on the Ukraine, targeting political positions on facebook and business deals for Manafort, Flynn and Jared, etc.--is it treason (in the common meaning of the word) and should Trump be impeached?

Why not wait to see what Mueller proves and what you all think of what evidence he has?  Some of the coincidences, plus Flynn's guilty plea and Manafort's charges certainly lead to possibilities.  Or do you see the worse case scenario for Trump as politics as usual?

Why do Trump supporters have to "wait and see" before coming to any conclusions, yet his detractors can just go about talking in certainties about his guilt?

I seriously doubt any everyday citizen really knows what happened, if anything at all, or the scope and depth of what happened if something did actually happen. It gets tiring listening to people on either side talking like they actually know, when they likely have nothing other than biased suspicions based on whatever slanted news source they choose to listen to.

Well, Manafort and Gen. Flynn are GREAT starts.

Even MORE reason to see this thing through to the VERY end.

Oh, I agree the investigations should continue, unimpeded by anyone with something to lose.

I just happen to find it rather distasteful so many people have already decided in their own mind who is or isn't guilty without waiting for the facts of the investigation.
I'm a liberal...no surprise to anyone who has been on this sit for a while. But the circumstantial evidence as well the timeline evidence against Trump's transition and election team, as well as the stuff they have nabbed Flynn and Manafort on, is just too overwhelming for just about any American citizen to just partisanly dismiss. I don't think they will nab Trump, but the man did dirty stuff and a lot of the people around him are going to go down for it.

But....

What's happened at the top of the FBI and how they seriously screwed up the Clinton investigation and passed over this Clinton involvement with McCabe's wife is pretty dirty there too. I honestly don't think Clinton did anything wrong with her emails as SOS. But the Clinton Foundation and who they handed out money to is dirty as hell and probably broke all sorts of laws.

I want all of them who broke the law and conspired to hurt this country to go down....Clintons and Trumps. They all suck.

Agreed. No more “special” justice for “special” folks.


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Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2017, 09:32:54 AM »

Offline feckless

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The FBI just thwarted a domestic (yes domestic) terrorist plot... seems like the perfect day to attack them.
.
One has nothing to do with the other. The FBI is a great agency, but are we suppose to turn our back on corruption?

The entire basis of the smears on McCabe and others is getting people to turn their backs on corruption.

If they didn’t engage in behavior that appears improper, nobody would care. Taking roughly $500k from Clunton donors while investigating her, having an anti-Trump partisan deeply invested in keeping Trump out of office being a key investigator into both Hillary and Trump, the Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting, the Comey leaks to the media...

How can anybody who cares about unbiased justice feel comfortable with any of that?

Doesn't  the McCabe issue have to do with his wife and Clinton.  Do spouse's politics always indicate bias ? corruption?  -what about Clarence Thomas's wife or Mitch McConnell 's wife should their careers be limited because they might convey influence or bias to their spouses positions?  They seem to get the benefit of not corrupting their husbands.  Why can't  McCabe be an honest career FBI agent who has a wife with her own political views and connections?  Is their any evidence that McCabe's wife running for office as a democrat caused McCabe to be improperly influenced?

Trump and a few Trump supporting republican's trying to distract and confuse with McCabe!

And I agree no special treatment for Clintons and yes dems deserve some responsibility for Trump by not finding someone to run more irreproachable than a Clinton>
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 09:43:22 AM by feckless »
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Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2017, 09:51:13 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The FBI just thwarted a domestic (yes domestic) terrorist plot... seems like the perfect day to attack them.
.
One has nothing to do with the other. The FBI is a great agency, but are we suppose to turn our back on corruption?

The entire basis of the smears on McCabe and others is getting people to turn their backs on corruption.

If they didn’t engage in behavior that appears improper, nobody would care. Taking roughly $500k from Clunton donors while investigating her, having an anti-Trump partisan deeply invested in keeping Trump out of office being a key investigator into both Hillary and Trump, the Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting, the Comey leaks to the media...

How can anybody who cares about unbiased justice feel comfortable with any of that?

Doesn't  the McCabe issue have to do with his wife and Clinton.  Do spouse's politics always indicate bias ? corruption?  -what about Clarence Thomas's wife or Mitch McConnell 's wife should their careers be limited because they might convey influence or bias to their spouses positions?  They seem to get the benefit of not corrupting their husbands.  Why can't  McCabe be an honest career FBI agent who has a wife with her own political views and connections?  Is their any evidence that McCabe's wife running for office as a democrat caused McCabe to be improperly influenced?

Trump and a few Trump supporting republican's trying to distract and confuse with McCabe!

And I agree no special treatment for Clintons and yes dems deserve some responsibility for Trump by not finding someone to run more irreproachable than a Clinton>

If my wife received $500k from a criminal’s associates, in close proximity to me prosecuting that criminal, would you have any questions about my partiality? What if there was evidence that I subsequently declined to prosecute, changing my office’s report from a recommendation of criminal conduct to just poor judgment?

I can’t say what was in McCabe’s heart, but I do know it looks bad. That’s why the standard for a recusal for conflict of interest is the *appearance* of impropriety, not actual impropriety.


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Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2017, 10:06:24 AM »

Offline feckless

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The FBI just thwarted a domestic (yes domestic) terrorist plot... seems like the perfect day to attack them.
.
One has nothing to do with the other. The FBI is a great agency, but are we suppose to turn our back on corruption?

The entire basis of the smears on McCabe and others is getting people to turn their backs on corruption.

If they didn’t engage in behavior that appears improper, nobody would care. Taking roughly $500k from Clunton donors while investigating her, having an anti-Trump partisan deeply invested in keeping Trump out of office being a key investigator into both Hillary and Trump, the Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting, the Comey leaks to the media...

How can anybody who cares about unbiased justice feel comfortable with any of that?

Doesn't  the McCabe issue have to do with his wife and Clinton.  Do spouse's politics always indicate bias ? corruption?  -what about Clarence Thomas's wife or Mitch McConnell 's wife should their careers be limited because they might convey influence or bias to their spouses positions?  They seem to get the benefit of not corrupting their husbands.  Why can't  McCabe be an honest career FBI agent who has a wife with her own political views and connections?  Is their any evidence that McCabe's wife running for office as a democrat caused McCabe to be improperly influenced?

Trump and a few Trump supporting republican's trying to distract and confuse with McCabe!

And I agree no special treatment for Clintons and yes dems deserve some responsibility for Trump by not finding someone to run more irreproachable than a Clinton>

If my wife received $500k from a criminal’s associates, in close proximity to me prosecuting that criminal, would you have any questions about my partiality? What if there was evidence that I subsequently declined to prosecute, changing my office’s report from a recommendation of criminal conduct to just poor judgment?

I can’t say what was in McCabe’s heart, but I do know it looks bad. That’s why the standard for a recusal for conflict of interest is the *appearance* of impropriety, not actual impropriety.

I still see the issue of partiality as too similar to Clarence Thomas's wife working for a conservative think tank and Mitch McConnel's wife being in Trump's cabinet.  Would agree if there is a potential conflict their needs to be extra transparency, I am not sure we get that especially with Thomas.  If they find something on McCabe it should be used but making a big deal of the potential bias, treating it as actual bias, with no evidence seems more like a distraction.

Do we know what role McCabe played in the Clinton investigation--did I miss that?
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2018, 01:59:31 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Some thread necromancy here but I saw this thread of a timeline of relevant events using FOIA'ed emails - it's worth a read for anyone who's interested in what actually happened.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/949834366133456896.html

Basically McCabe promptly followed all relevant procedures for recusal, was never involved with the investigation during any point in his wife's campaign, and got smeared for it anyway, presumably to shield the President from accountability.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2018, 03:55:08 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Some thread necromancy here but I saw this thread of a timeline of relevant events using FOIA'ed emails - it's worth a read for anyone who's interested in what actually happened.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/949834366133456896.html

Basically McCabe promptly followed all relevant procedures for recusal, was never involved with the investigation during any point in his wife's campaign, and got smeared for it anyway, presumably to shield the President from accountability.

Typical liberal nonsense. Didn't mention the stock market once.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2018, 04:51:16 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Incredibly frustrating that the two parties offered up Clinton and Trump for the highest office in the land.
Hopefully the dems can putforth a good candidate in 2020

As much as both parties are responsible for their counter-productive partisan divisiveness, it's hard to blame the republican party for Trump.  He was the choice of the people. Plenty of chances for others to beat him, and they didn't.   Clinton, on the other hand, was the heir apparent for the Dems and no one who chose to run really had much of a chance against her (once Biden opted out).     The fact that such a flawed candidate as Bernie gave her a run indicates she wasn't inspiring the people.   

That the American people whittled the party nominations down to Trump v. Cruz and Clinton v. Sanders is rather sad.   Maybe both parties can do better in 2020.

Re: FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe set to retire (How convenient)
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2018, 06:51:06 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Incredibly frustrating that the two parties offered up Clinton and Trump for the highest office in the land.
Hopefully the dems can putforth a good candidate in 2020

As much as both parties are responsible for their counter-productive partisan divisiveness, it's hard to blame the republican party for Trump.  He was the choice of the people. Plenty of chances for others to beat him, and they didn't.   Clinton, on the other hand, was the heir apparent for the Dems and no one who chose to run really had much of a chance against her (once Biden opted out).     The fact that such a flawed candidate as Bernie gave her a run indicates she wasn't inspiring the people.   

That the American people whittled the party nominations down to Trump v. Cruz and Clinton v. Sanders is rather sad.   Maybe both parties can do better in 2020.

I don't know why you're lumping Sanders in with the rest of that lot. I think he easily beats Trump in a general election.

I've heard Trump supporters echo this sentiment, some of them actually liked Sanders better, believe it or not.

The Superdelegates that Sanders lost wouldn't be a factor in a general election. That's on the DNC, not Sanders.

As for a general election, Sanders is a northeastern Jew with some socialist tendencies. That didn't fly well with some Democrats, but those Democrats came from states he likely would have lost in a general election anyways. I think he wins all the blue states and most of the swing states with his pro-middle class, anti-establishment message. Unlike Clinton, Sanders understands the plight of the poor and middle class rural American, and I think he would have reached a lot of those voters in Ohio, Michigan, etc.