Bulls (10-21) at Celtics (26-9) Game #36 12/23/17

[SCeltic34]

Sweet revenge.  It doesn't make the loss at Chicago suck any less, but only a win would suffice tonight.

[liam]

Good win, quiet board...

[jpotter33]

Good blowout win after a tough couple of weeks. Now let's do the same on Christmas Day against those dirty Wizards!

[Kevins Gamble]

Nobody is surprised that we're getting our ass kicked in this quarter.  Might have something to do with these trash lineups Brad continues to roll out to start the 2nd.

Yeah, this flip-flopping with the bench rotations and the staggering of the starters is just baffling.

He went with the Al/Tatum staggering with the main bench group for several games, and it seemingly worked. Why he suddenly changed his mind is beyond me.

Serious question, because I see this comment a lot...is it possible that Brad is in the same mindset as the Warriors, Spurs, Cavs, etc...that essentially the regular season is pointless other  than preparing for the post-season?  Just like he's shifting our team to only three positions...he's only trying to shift the team to a group of players that can succeed in any type of lineup?  So he's using 82 games to refine and determine which players can make that shift and which ones can't?  And if we need to use the DPE or trades to find other players that can do it, we'll glean that info as well.

Don't really know if the strategy will ultimately be good or bad...but other than home court advantage, since we're almost guaranteed to make the playoffs in this conference...isn't this a better use of our regular season than simply trying to have the best record in the Eastern conference?

Well, we're not good enough to not care about the regular season.  Not yet.  Especially with Hayward's injury.  Brad doesn't strike me as someone who'd be complacent about poor regular season effort and losses.  He obviously knows a lot more than we do, but these strange lineups will never show up in the playoffs, and it doesn't seem to be beneficial for these inexperienced players to try to play disorganized ball together because they don't have enough talent to play as a cohesive unit.

Just my take.  TP for being a new guy though 

Thanks for my first TP.

I'm not suggesting Stevens doesn't care about season effort (opposite actually)...but is he willing to sacrifice a handful of wins this season, in the pursuit of learning more about which combinations will work...I think so. 
When I'm frustrated with some of these lineups...I think:  Brad Stevens is a smart, basketball guy...he spends more time thinking about this stuff than I do.  So I assume he too, can easily notice that some of these 2nd quarter lineups are garbage...so why do it?
It's super frustrating as a fan to watch a scientist experiment with trials that feel like they are bound to fail before it even begins...but if we're not going to have the talent to match the Warriors and Cavs (which we don't)...we need some other advantage...and perhaps a high level of plug-n-play chemistry that can overcome foul trouble, injuries to stars, etc is that advantage.
But then again...I'm new around here...

Here's another TP for a good discussion.

I definitely think this type of philosophy plays into it. Brad (for better or worse) has always done a ton of experimenting with the rotations in the regular season, and I think minute management is also a part of it.

But here's the thing that I don't get - most of these lineups won't even be a factor in the playoffs. Figuring that Morris gets healthy and not counting on Hayward coming back, we'll only be playing 8-10 guys deep in our rotation in the playoffs (Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Morris, Horford, Rozier, Smart,Semi (rarely), Theis, and Baynes), and generally five to six of those guys (Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Morris, Horford, and Smart) will take up the majority of the minutes with Baynes, Theis, Rozier, and Semi all having their playing time dependent upon matchups or if one of the main guys is having a bad night.

So when we see these lineups of all bench units that are costing us games due to the huge deficit they build up, I don't think this rationale can really justify that. Especially with the injuries we've dealt with and the fact that we're going to be seeing much more integration of starter/bench lineups in the playoffs, I think simply having more integrated units is a good compromise between experimenting with differing lineups/managing minutes and still not harming our chances of winning games.

Fair points...like you mention, I'm not entirely sure what the point of the pure bench rotations is either.  I too think integration would be a better solution, but who knows, perhaps he's hoping someone on the bench steps forward as a leader for the 2nd unit instead of needing someone from the 5 to save them.  Kind of like how we occasionally saw Smart and Theis build a little relationship together...
However, as a thought experiment...imagine you're guaranteed to make the playoffs in your weak conference on the native talent you have on your team (I know, I know...we all hate this type of thinking...but if we're not good enough to naturally make the EC playoffs...then most of our discussions are moot anyway).  If that was the case, how would you use your resources for the regular season; especially considering serious injuries to starters and an unprecedented number of rookies?  Would you treat every game like a playoff-win-at-all-cost scenario...or would you give your vets plenty of rest, your rookies plenty of rope and a ton of time evaluating different combinations of young players? 
Don't mean to suggest that he's throwing games, but that he finds more value in what he and his coaches are learning about the players, even if it creates these scrappy situations and close games to teams that we're clearly better than and causes forums like these to go nuclear.

EDIT: Thanks for the TP

[tstorey_97]

Finally an offensive outburst!

[apc]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

[Atzar]

Lots to like from the second half tonight.  Good win.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

[tstorey_97]

The bench usage is interesting. My guess is that Ainge would prefer Nader and Yabusele get some minutes over what they got the first 20+ games which is zero. The President of Basketball operations knows a couple of things:

He spent a draft pick and a developmental year on each of these players.
If they play for 76 seconds miss one three and go back to the bench for four more dnp's fine. But, what are they doing here then? They have contracts and never letting them play....ever is, well, a waste of resources.

The other thing Ainge knows is that the Celtics aren't going to win a title this year, barring injuries to the leagues top 7 or 8 players. Thus, giving specifically these two players a chance to get better might be useful.

When rotations like this use to happen out of nowhere, I assumed the team was showcasing bench players whom would be involved in the swap.

Nader has 7 mpg and 2 ppg
Yabusele has 4.5 mpg and 2 ppg

Beyond hall of famers, no rookies/2nd year NBA player is going to get anything going without time. I honestly can't say if either of these guys will ever play much, but, might as well give them a couple of shots at showing something beyond turning it over and missing shots which they have proven they can do.

[liam]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

It was close in the 1st half and turned into a blowout in the 3rd quarter. Jaylen had a very good come back game and Theis looked very good with a double double and a new face mask.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

It was close in the 1st half and turned into a blowout in the 3rd quarter. Jaylen had a very good come back game and Theis looked very good with a double double and a new face mask.

Did the offense look crisper? Did the defense look more in sync?

[tarheelsxxiii]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

It was close in the 1st half and turned into a blowout in the 3rd quarter. Jaylen had a very good come back game and Theis looked very good with a double double and a new face mask.

Did the offense look crisper? Did the defense look more in sync?

As liam said, we blew it open in the 3rd with hot shooting behind Jaylen and Kyrie.  Defense was good throughout -- aside from 15 and 7 from Portis in the first half, no one ever got going.  On both ends, I thought guys really played within their abilities, esp Smart and Theis.  Al made some nice defensive plays at the rim.  Tatum was fairly quiet but made some nice plays in the 2nd half.  Rozier is a moron but had a nice dunk in the 4th. 

[liam]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

It was close in the 1st half and turned into a blowout in the 3rd quarter. Jaylen had a very good come back game and Theis looked very good with a double double and a new face mask.

Did the offense look crisper? Did the defense look more in sync?

The offense look much better through the whole game. The defense was better in the 2nd half. Defense still has a ways to go. Theis was a monster on the glass.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

It was close in the 1st half and turned into a blowout in the 3rd quarter. Jaylen had a very good come back game and Theis looked very good with a double double and a new face mask.

Did the offense look crisper? Did the defense look more in sync?

The offense look much better through the whole game. The defense was better in the 2nd half. Defense still has a ways to go. Theis was a monster on the glass.

liam was a monster in the thread.

[liam]

Good win, quiet board...

Its busier when there something to complain about 

Christmas festivities. Can someone give me a rundown?

It was close in the 1st half and turned into a blowout in the 3rd quarter. Jaylen had a very good come back game and Theis looked very good with a double double and a new face mask.

Did the offense look crisper? Did the defense look more in sync?

The offense look much better through the whole game. The defense was better in the 2nd half. Defense still has a ways to go. Theis was a monster on the glass.

liam was a monster in the thread.

I tore it up!