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Potential AD trade idea
« on: December 20, 2017, 11:53:35 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Lets say the New Orleans Pelican's finally decide to part ways with Anthony Davis.  Yeah I know it's crazy, but humour me and lets just pretend they have decided to entertain offers.

AD's contract size makes things difficult for Boston because it means Danny would really have no choice but to trade one of his stars - Kyrie, Hayward or Horford.  Kyrie is the new face of the team, so he's not going.  Hayward has yet to play more 20 minutes as a Celtic after just signing his fresh deal, so don't see him going. That means Horford would almost certainly need to be a part of the deal. 

The following trade works in the trade machine:
* Boston -> New Orleans: Al Horford, Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown
* New Orleans -> Boston: Anthony Davis, Solomoln Hill

Question is:
1. Would you do it?
2. Would Boston do it?
3. Would New Orleans do it?

My answers to these questions are:

1. Would you do it?
Yes, I would have to.  I'm not as sold on AD as some people as I'm a little put of by his team's lack of wins when he's been the leader (they've had more success with Cousins as the center of the team), and also pretty concerned about his injury history. I also really like Brown, and I've been warming up to Horford in a huge way this season. But with all that said this is a 24 year old Anthony freakin' Davis we are talking about here - and the thought of Boston moving forward with a core of Kyrie (25), Hayward (27), Tatum (19) and Davis (24) gives me all kinda of excited.  That is "dynasty" potential there.


2. Would Boston do it?
Honestly, I think it's a tough call.  Horford is a big part of this team, and while he's been struggling a bit lately, his early season surge was instrumental to the team's huge success.  In additon to that, Danny seems to have invested a lot in Jaylen Brown, and his upside seems to be very high.  On the other hand, Ainge seems to be a bit obsessed with Anthony Davis - and the Kyrie deal is a clear indication that Danny Ainge Danny would be willing to give up just about anything for the chance to add an elite 24/25 year old superstar to the team. Throw in the fact that Davis seems to fit with the team (can impact the game without the ball in his hands) and that his personality is textbook Ainge/Stevens (nice guy, highly coachable, hard worker, willing learner) and it's hard for me to envision Danny turning down this opportunity. 

Like the Isaiah deal it would be difficult to part ways with Horford and Brown - but the Isaiah deal also shows that Danny is willing to make the hard deals if he thinks he's gettign the best talent in the deal, adn there's no doubt that AD is that. 


3. Would the Pelicans do it? 
It's hard to imagine the Pelicans being truly willing to part with Davis, but this entire 'hypothetical' is based on the assumption that they have made the decision to listen to offers.  The Pelicans have struggled with Davis as their #1 guys, and Davis/Cousins really don't seem to fit together all that well either, as they have struggled a bit when both are healthy.  However when AD has been out and Cousins has been 'the man', the Pelicans have been playing pretty well.  So maybe Cousins and Davis are just too similar players to be able to work well together. 

If this is the determination, then I think this trade could make a lot of sense for the Pelicans and it's hard to imagine them getting a better offer. Al Horford is the type of glue guy who could fit so nicely alongside Cousins because he excels when playing a complimentary role rather then as a go-to guy, and that complimentary guy is what the Pelcians really need up front right now.  Secondly, Jaylen Brown (at only 21 years old) has future all-star potential at the SF position, and this happens to be probably the Pelican's weakest position.  Jaylen Brown is probably an upgrade over Solomon Hill right now, and he'll likely be a far better play 1 or 2 years from now.  Throw in Marcus Morris (who would give the Pelicans some MUCH needed depth) and this deal actually helps the team a lot.  They might be better in the win column with Horford/Brown/Morris then they are will David/hill - now and in the future.

What do you guys think - any chance at all that this could be something both teams might consider?   

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 12:43:42 AM »

Offline D Dub

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From what Iíve seen this season, I believe Horford is the better player both near and long term.

All Star Alís game is aging well and he has become our defensive quarterback.

Meanwhile Anthony Davis canít stay on the floor or get out of the 1st round.

We would regret gutting our team for him.  Our team has too much potential to make a hasty move before chemistry has a chance to develop. 

Dannyís biggest job for the next five years is managing the cap so we donít lose Smart, Terry, Brown or Tatum in free agency.  If he can thread that needle, we have a ten year title window in play. 

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 01:19:54 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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From what Iíve seen this season, I believe Horford is the better player both near and long term.

All Star Alís game is aging well and he has become our defensive quarterback.

Meanwhile Anthony Davis canít stay on the floor or get out of the 1st round.

We would regret gutting our team for him.  Our team has too much potential to make a hasty move before chemistry has a chance to develop. 

Dannyís biggest job for the next five years is managing the cap so we donít lose Smart, Terry, Brown or Tatum in free agency.  If he can thread that needle, we have a ten year title window in play.

I certainly see your concerns, because I share those same concerns - the lack of wins, the injury problems.  Sometimes I wonder if AD has enough passion/fire within him to be THAT guy. 

But at the same time, I see a lot of Tim Duncan in Anthony Davis - smart kid, calm demeanor, quite fundamentally sound, highly skilled, capable of dominating on both ends any given night.  I do believe he is the type of guy who really WANTS to win, but I question whether he's ever had somebody qualified to teach him HOW to win.  Given the right coach, in the right situation, could he potentially become the next Tim Duncan?  Could the Celtics (with a core of Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, AD) be the next NBA dynasty?

AD and Kyrie are both in the 24/25 age range.  Tatum is 19.  Those three guys could form the face of this team for the next 10 years.  Even Hayward (at 27) could easily remain a part of that for the next 5-8 years.   With that core this could be a very special team for a very long time.

And while the risks are there with AD, people were quick to highlight those same risks in Kyrie - and look how he's transformed his game with a couple of months under Brad Stevens.

It's not an easy call, but if I were there with the decision in my hands - I don't think I could say no.  I think I would HAVE to make that call. 

If thinks never truly worked out with AD and he never took that next step, I could live with knowing that I traded some really strong pieces for a perennial two-way 25/12 guy.  But if I never made the trade, and AD went on to dominate the league somewhere else - could I live with that decision knowing I could have had him but never had the balls to take the chance?   

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2017, 02:00:35 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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From what I’ve seen this season, I believe Horford is the better player both near and long term.

All Star Al’s game is aging well and he has become our defensive quarterback.

Meanwhile Anthony Davis can’t stay on the floor or get out of the 1st round.

We would regret gutting our team for him.  Our team has too much potential to make a hasty move before chemistry has a chance to develop. 

Danny’s biggest job for the next five years is managing the cap so we don’t lose Smart, Terry, Brown or Tatum in free agency.  If he can thread that needle, we have a ten year title window in play.

I certainly see your concerns, because I share those same concerns - the lack of wins, the injury problems.  Sometimes I wonder if AD has enough passion/fire within him to be THAT guy. 

But at the same time, I see a lot of Tim Duncan in Anthony Davis - smart kid, calm demeanor, quite fundamentally sound, highly skilled, capable of dominating on both ends any given night.  I do believe he is the type of guy who really WANTS to win, but I question whether he's ever had somebody qualified to teach him HOW to win.  Given the right coach, in the right situation, could he potentially become the next Tim Duncan?  Could the Celtics (with a core of Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, AD) be the next NBA dynasty?

AD and Kyrie are both in the 24/25 age range.  Tatum is 19.  Those three guys could form the face of this team for the next 10 years.  Even Hayward (at 27) could easily remain a part of that for the next 5-8 years.   With that core this could be a very special team for a very long time.

And while the risks are there with AD, people were quick to highlight those same risks in Kyrie - and look how he's transformed his game with a couple of months under Brad Stevens.

It's not an easy call, but if I were there with the decision in my hands - I don't think I could say no.  I think I would HAVE to make that call. 

If thinks never truly worked out with AD and he never took that next step, I could live with knowing that I traded some really strong pieces for a perennial two-way 25/12 guy.  But if I never made the trade, and AD went on to dominate the league somewhere else - could I live with that decision knowing I could have had him but never had the balls to take the chance?

If AD is coming in, Tatum is going in the other direction. It'd take Tatum, Brown and most of our picks to get this deal done, unless a third team comes in for Horford but who would want him atm and have assets that NOLA would want? Plus trading Horford would make the Celtics a free agent no go zone.

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 03:54:02 AM »

Offline byennie

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We won't trade Tatum, and New Orleans is right to want him. He's playing like a #1 overall pick at 19, he's not going anywhere.

The best we can do, IMO would be something like this:

Smart, Brown, Morris, Baynes, LAL '19 (#5), BOS '19 (#27), MEM '20 (top-6 protected, unprotected in '21), LAC '20 (top-14 protected)

<==>

Davis, Tony Allen
Then, we sign or trade for a player with the DPE.

Irving/ Hayward*/ Tatum/ Davis/ Horford
Larkin/ Rozier/ Allen/ Semi/ Yabusele/ Theis / DPE

New Orleans probably balks, but Brown is a #3 pick playing up to that value, and they could have two more top-5 picks in there among the 4x 1st rounders. That's 5 young players to build around, and a free look at Smart. Morris and Baynes are cheap contracts that won't hurt any tanking efforts.

They could follow up by shipping Cousins to Cleveland for Thompson and the Brooklyn pick.

New Pelicans rebuilding blocks:

Jaylen Brown
4x top-10 picks this year and next (BKN, LAL/SAC, own)
2x extra 1st rounders
cap room

« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 04:00:24 AM by byennie »
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Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 03:40:06 PM »

Offline nostar

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We won't trade Tatum, and New Orleans is right to want him. He's playing like a #1 overall pick at 19, he's not going anywhere.

I think we would move Tatum for Davis. I don't think the deal would be as rich pick-wise, but I think Tatum is not off the table.

Smart, Brown, Morris, Baynes, LAL '19 (#5), BOS '19 (#27), MEM '20 (top-6 protected, unprotected in '21), LAC '20 (top-14 protected)

That is too much from my perspective. I know Danny is rumored to have offered four 1st rounders for Justice Winslow, but hopefully he's learned his lesson in hindsight. Your offer above is four players with a positive value, two potentially great picks, one late 1st, and whatever the LAL pick turns in to. That is just just the epitome of the "too many eggs in one basket" situation.

   https://www.foxsports.com/nba/anthony-davis-player-injuries

I'd do Brown, Smart, Baynes, Morris and the LAL/SAC pick at the end of the season. I forget if we can move Smart at that point, but that basic deal is something I can see pursuing.

They could follow up by shipping Cousins to Cleveland for Thompson and the Brooklyn pick.

I have to believe if they could do this, it would already be done. Cleveland is trying to get DJ without losing the BKN pick first and NO feels like trading Cousins reduces both AD's confidence in them and their leverage around the league for moving Davis. Tough to see this one happening on either side.

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2017, 04:24:36 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I really don't know why the Pelicans would want a 30 year old plus Horford.  They most likely would want rebuilding pieces, however from our point of view it makes sense to make Horford part of a Davis trade as they are both similar in the sense they play better along a more physical center like Baynes, and can play the 5 against smaller lineups. 

I think it would have to be some sort of 3 team deal with Horford going to say OKC or Houston a playoff team, and they in return also send parts to the Pelicans.

I'm also reluctant to part with Brown or Tatum, and would much rather include the Lakers and Memphis picks in it's place. 

I also like to use recent trades as baselines for what to expect, also who else we are competing against.  Davis can also say to most teams I'm not going to re-sign with you so don't bother.  That would give us more negotiating power as he would most likely re-sign with us like Irving.

Speaking of recent trades look at the Irving trade.   An injured all star on the last year of his contract,  the Nets pick, a great contract for a good player in Crowder, and a project in Zizic (were even saying at 1 point he could have been a late lottery pick).  So if this is somewhat our baseline for a trade I would say Horford, the Lakers or Grizzlies pick, Rozier, and maybe another non lottery pick like Zizic was.  I would start with a package like that, and be hesitant to go beyond it.  Horford is a very very good underrated player, and it's saying something he has been to the playoffs most of his career being a key player. 

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 04:55:37 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I agree that trading Demarcus Cousins to Cleveland for Thompson and BNK #1 makes sense for both teams.  If NOP are thinking that way, it makes no sense for them to take back Horford in a trade.  If NOP is not looking to trade Cousins, adding Horford still makes no sense.

Without Horford in the trade, and assuming that Irving and Hayward are also not in the trade, we would have to include too many players to make it work.  It just doesn't make sense.

I think on value alone, we could trade Tatum and the Lakers/Philly/Sac pick to begin to stack up enough value but we can't stack up enough salary without including Horford.  I would do say Horford-Tatum-Lakers/Philly/SAC Pick for Davis-Ajinca for example but I can't imagine why NOP would do this unless they then flipped Horford to CLE for Thompson and the pick but if I was CLE, I wound not do this.

Our young starting core would be Irving-Brown-Hayward-Davis-Baynes.  I can live with that.

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 06:12:48 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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You have a much better shot at Cousins. I'd also think Cousins fits better due to trade cost and cap number. You wouldn't have to deal Horford, Brown, Tatum or Laker pick.

Smart, Morris, Baynes, Yab and Nader along with Grizz 1st and C's 1st should get the deal for Cousins done.

You then have Irving, Brown, Tatum Horford, and Cousins as Starters.
Rozier, Larkin, Semi, and Theis as the bench. Plus the DPE left

Next year resign Cousins and try to add a few ring chasers. If Laker pick conveys that player can help the bench hopefully.

Irving/Rozier
Brown/Doncic*
Hayward/Tatum
Horford/Semi
Cousins/Theis

That team would give the Warriors a run and Cavs would have no shot.
My Top 5
Trade targets.      Draft.                     FAs
1. Davis              1.Fultz              1. Griffin*
2. Cousins          2. Tatum          2. Hayward
3. Butler              3. Jackson       3. Millsap
4. George            4. Ball               4. Lowry
5. Favors             5. Isaac            5. Gali

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 07:57:35 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Secondly, Jaylen Brown (at only 21 years old) has future all-star potential at the SF position, and this happens to be probably the Pelican's weakest position.  Jaylen Brown is probably  an upgrade over Solomon Hill right now, and he'll likely be a far better play 1 or 2 years from now. 

Probably? This is the biggest head scratcher in an otherwise good post. Have you ever seen Hill play? Obviously aside from this year since he's been out all season long. The guy is a good (not great) defender, but an awful offensive player. His career shooting numbers (40% FG, 33% 3's) illustrate that. Kind of insulting to Brown to be honest.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Solomon+Hill&player_id2_select=Solomon+Hill&y2=2017&player_id2=hillso01&idx=players


http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2488958/solomon-hill

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2017, 08:26:45 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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From what Iíve seen this season, I believe Horford is the better player both near and long term.

All Star Alís game is aging well and he has become our defensive quarterback.

Meanwhile Anthony Davis canít stay on the floor or get out of the 1st round.

We would regret gutting our team for him.  Our team has too much potential to make a hasty move before chemistry has a chance to develop. 

Dannyís biggest job for the next five years is managing the cap so we donít lose Smart, Terry, Brown or Tatum in free agency.  If he can thread that needle, we have a ten year title window in play.

I certainly see your concerns, because I share those same concerns - the lack of wins, the injury problems.  Sometimes I wonder if AD has enough passion/fire within him to be THAT guy. 

But at the same time, I see a lot of Tim Duncan in Anthony Davis - smart kid, calm demeanor, quite fundamentally sound, highly skilled, capable of dominating on both ends any given night.  I do believe he is the type of guy who really WANTS to win, but I question whether he's ever had somebody qualified to teach him HOW to win.  Given the right coach, in the right situation, could he potentially become the next Tim Duncan?  Could the Celtics (with a core of Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, AD) be the next NBA dynasty?

AD and Kyrie are both in the 24/25 age range.  Tatum is 19.  Those three guys could form the face of this team for the next 10 years.  Even Hayward (at 27) could easily remain a part of that for the next 5-8 years.   With that core this could be a very special team for a very long time.

And while the risks are there with AD, people were quick to highlight those same risks in Kyrie - and look how he's transformed his game with a couple of months under Brad Stevens.

It's not an easy call, but if I were there with the decision in my hands - I don't think I could say no.  I think I would HAVE to make that call. 

If thinks never truly worked out with AD and he never took that next step, I could live with knowing that I traded some really strong pieces for a perennial two-way 25/12 guy.  But if I never made the trade, and AD went on to dominate the league somewhere else - could I live with that decision knowing I could have had him but never had the balls to take the chance?   
You have a much better shot at Cousins. I'd also think Cousins fits better due to trade cost and cap number. You wouldn't have to deal Horford, Brown, Tatum or Laker pick.

Smart, Morris, Baynes, Yab and Nader along with Grizz 1st and C's 1st should get the deal for Cousins done.

You then have Irving, Brown, Tatum Horford, and Cousins as Starters.
Rozier, Larkin, Semi, and Theis as the bench. Plus the DPE left

Next year resign Cousins and try to add a few ring chasers. If Laker pick conveys that player can help the bench hopefully.

Irving/Rozier
Brown/Doncic*
Hayward/Tatum
Horford/Semi
Cousins/Theis

That team would give the Warriors a run and Cavs would have no shot.
 
This team with Cousins or Davis is a team that can compete with anyone.

I think Davis is the best player in any deal, and he's certainly the best two way player that COULD become better by LEAPS and bounds, under the coaching of Stevens. Davis can score, as evidenced by his stellar MVP season, (28.) But I would love either big on this team. Unfortunately, the dream pretty much dies at this point, because Ainge doesn't seem interested in Cousins.

It depends on how much we have to give up too. I like everyone's ideas.

TP's to everyone in this thread. Let's hop on that AD or DMC to Boston hype train! :)
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Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2018, 06:11:28 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Over the summer, I would say to make this trade before NO changes their minds.

IMO, Davis is not worth giving up either of Tatum or Brown.

I would offer Horford, Smart, Lakers pick, and Boston 2018.

Even then, I prefer the idea of having cost controlled rookie contracts out of Tatum/Brown, and the way DA has been drafting, see who he brings in to the mix with the 2018 pick if it conveys.

It allows us to have 3 near max players in addition, which trading for AD does not, once we have to extend Kyrie.

Making no trades gives the team the longest window of contending, in addition to us being a top 5 team in the short term as well.

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2018, 06:17:57 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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most likey have to wait out Davis reaching the point he has all the money he ever needs and decides ,  he needs to put his name in the history books and join a winning franchise.

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2018, 07:57:01 PM »

Offline footey

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Davis would require Brown, best picks and salary filler.

Tatum not available.

Danny

Re: Potential AD trade idea
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2018, 09:07:46 PM »

Offline Erik

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I wouldn't trade Tatum for Giannis.

From everything I've seen he has top 10 potential -- of all time.

At some point the switch is going to be flipped in his brain like Neo in the matrix and he's just going to realize he can dominate the NBA Michael Jordan, Kobe style.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 09:27:07 PM by Erik »