Author Topic: Celtics may be broken  (Read 7651 times)

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Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2017, 10:18:32 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Its a make or miss league. Our young guys are missing more. Olejeye is getting minutes but struggling to find his range. Smart and Rozier have struggled. Tatum is in a funk.

That's 4 key rotation players on rookie contracts who are struggling to make shots.

All 3 of our last losses we were under 30% from 3. That's the key stat. We had plenty of wide open looks, but we missed them. If we shoot our average for those games we win them.

CBS warned the Cs not to overreact to early success. He saw a struggling offense. He saw the lulls.

Now, don't overreact to failure. The question is how are we progressing in December with our young guys?

1. Olejeye looks like the real deal on defense. He makes a lot of good plays. His athleticism shines through on offense once in a while too.
2. We are getting good shots that we are missing. Missing shots is normal for a young team. Getting good shots is not normal.
3. I like Rozier's progression as an offensive player. He is still overmatched to be the primary scorer off the bench, but I could definitely see him getting there.
4. Theis has been really good on both sides of the court. He needs to learn how not to foul.
5. We have 2 of top 7 players under 23 years old right now. Both of whom are making contributions and figuring out their game.
6. Brown's defense continues to be at the most elite level (first team). His first quarter last night was awesome.
7. Kyrie is trusting his teammates to make shots, but they are not. He is still scoring at an elite level, but he is also making a lot of good basketball plays.
8. Imagine what this team is going to look like on two days rest with time to develop individual abilities and new offensive schemes.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2017, 10:38:03 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Quote
But my biggest concern is that we aren't even trying to rebound any more.

We are 11th in the NBA in rebounding pverall, 19th in offensive and 6th in defensive.   So it is clear rebounding is not the main problem.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=-1

Our lack of scoring of the bench is a bigger problem.

A typical "sky is falling" thread that follows a loss here. We are going to lose some games, and we are going to win some games we should not and lose some games we should win.   That is sports, folks, it is a long season.

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Irving is controlling the ball way too much - as advertised.  This is destroying Stevens' ball movement offense

I call BS on this assertion.   You do realize that a lot of the games we have won are due to his scoring.   I would rather have him taking a shot in the clutch than anyone not named Tatum.  Take a look here, its Clutch time stats and guess who is second in the NBA:

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http://www.nbaminer.com/clutch-time-stats/

Yep, it's Irving.  It is Irving who has carried us for stretches when guys can't score.

No, rebounding is a problem.
The stats you quote are from the entire season. My post referred to the last few games.
I repeat....why have they stopped blocking out or even trying to get rebounds?

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2017, 10:54:12 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Quote
But my biggest concern is that we aren't even trying to rebound any more.

We are 11th in the NBA in rebounding pverall, 19th in offensive and 6th in defensive.   So it is clear rebounding is not the main problem.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=-1

Our lack of scoring of the bench is a bigger problem.

A typical "sky is falling" thread that follows a loss here. We are going to lose some games, and we are going to win some games we should not and lose some games we should win.   That is sports, folks, it is a long season.

Quote
Quote
Irving is controlling the ball way too much - as advertised.  This is destroying Stevens' ball movement offense

I call BS on this assertion.   You do realize that a lot of the games we have won are due to his scoring.   I would rather have him taking a shot in the clutch than anyone not named Tatum.  Take a look here, its Clutch time stats and guess who is second in the NBA:

Quote
http://www.nbaminer.com/clutch-time-stats/

Yep, it's Irving.  It is Irving who has carried us for stretches when guys can't score.

No, rebounding is a problem.
The stats you quote are from the entire season. My post referred to the last few games.
I repeat....why have they stopped blocking out or even trying to get rebounds?

Do you really think the team has stopped "even trying to get rebounds"?

Really?

Over reaction.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2017, 10:56:09 AM »

Offline mctyson

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i'm a huge Smart fan and I've defended everything he does on the court but Stevens needs to not make him the focal point on offense when he's on the floor. it really seems like they're running plays for him and that's it when he's on the floor. tatum needs to be part of that 2nd unit and be the focal point of the offense for that group.

I also feel Smart is kind of the one that is "broken". I think this comes from his option not being picked up and him feeling slighted, just my opinion and I have no proof. but seeing him in pre-season he looked like a completely different player and then came the day for the option to be picked up and then the very next game he looked like last season Marcus. even his defense hasn't been consistent imo.   

I agree with this mostly.  I too am a huge Smart fan but combined with Rozier and Ojeleye there is too much dead play on the offensive end.  However, at least Smart can create for others.  Rozier does none of that.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2017, 11:05:20 AM »

Offline cman88

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we are a young team and this will happen. This is why Hayward was supposed to be a big part of this team. Veteran consistency to pull the team through nights like last night when your bench/younger players struggle. RIght now, just irving/horford can will themselves to pick up scoring slack if other players are struggling. you add hayward and its a different story.

as good as tatum/Brown have been they are still young. and without Morris on the bench, it is 50-50 as to whether rozier/smart will have a good night of a 1-15 night.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 11:12:11 AM by cman88 »

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2017, 11:46:06 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Weíre 8-5 since the streak ended.  I mean, thatís not exactly cause for panic.

But yeah, we werenít going 80-2.  Firmly believe that margin of victory is the best predictor of how good a team.  And we all know that we squeaked out more games during the streak than normal.

Anyway, still at least the second best team in the east with a punchers chance to make it to the finals.  Iím good with that.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2017, 11:59:14 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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Injuries have played a large part in this small downturn we're experiencing.  The loss of Morris specifically was a major hit to that second unit. Not to mention the game to game losses of Baynes and Theis, just when we need them most.

And speaking of that second unit, I'm going to agree with mctyson...Smart, Rozier, and Ojeleye are WAY too inconsistent offensively to carry any unit...second or other.

Smart is what he is, he's fine on a team that surrounds him with solid offensive players, but team him with the wild and inconsistent Rozier, and the "NO" 3 and D Ojeleye and you have a second unit that is totally impotent.

If Morris will be lost for a long period of time, couple that with the loss of Hayward, and at times Brown and Tatum will actually look like rookies...we're gonna struggle at times.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2017, 12:51:31 PM »

Offline bknova

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There has been an alarming trend this year and finally this team is starting to crack.

They have major offensive deficiencies.  Stevens response is to go small which neutralizes their defense.  Whatever you want to say about Stevens as a coach (and I think he is a good one) - his small lineup  decisions are usually terrible.  They are terrible because those units get destroyed on the glass and on defense.

I will chalk these games up to the injuries but there is no doubt that I see a large second half swoon coming.


Oh No, the sky is falling.  Hide, but wait...there's no where to hide, because the sky is all encompassing, its gonna get, no matter what....and....its falling....fast......


We're 24-7, without one of our top two players. 

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2017, 01:31:39 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Seems like the obvious answer is to give more minutes to Yabu/Larkin/Semi (Nader needs to be cut). Maybe actually cashing in on the DPE, and get another talented rotational player in the mix. We are built very top heavy, even if Hayward and Morris were both healthy.

Might make for some losses, but development of the bench allows the marathon that is the season to
be run without too much wear from attrition and gives more options once the playoffs come to know what kind of matchups the end of the bench guys are capable of contributing positive numbers to.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2017, 01:38:55 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Weíre 8-5 since the streak ended.  I mean, thatís not exactly cause for panic.

But yeah, we werenít going 80-2.  Firmly believe that margin of victory is the best predictor of how good a team.  And we all know that we squeaked out more games during the streak than normal.

Anyway, still at least the second best team in the east with a punchers chance to make it to the finals.  Iím good with that.

^^This
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Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2017, 02:01:43 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Morris is not a star but he stabilizes both the bench and the starters I think him being gone hurts. Tatum has hit a rookie wall, Brown is still finding his way. Smart and Rozier both have bad nights. Smart is not a scorer but he thinks he is some nights. We all should be happy with this team without Heyward. I hope we do get a nice piece with the DPE and  Hopefully a new streak is coming!!!!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 02:40:06 PM by spikelovetheCelts »
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Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2017, 02:51:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't think the team is broken. I just think they are regressing back to the team they are. They were never an 88% winning team. They are more like a 65% winning team and its pretty obvious they are slipping into that mold.

I thought after Hayward got hurt that the ECFs were going to be a stretch to get to. But with the development of Jaylen and Jayson and the mediocre to poor play of teams like Charlotte, Washington, and Milwaukee, I think we can still make the ECFs.

But this is essentially a developmental year with a bunch of winning. A healthy Hayward and Morris, a year developed Brown, Tatum, Theis, Ojeleye and Yabusele, a possible LA pick conveying and another year of playing together and this team starts being a constant contender next year.

All we have seen recently is a team showing their youth and lack of outside shooting from the entire bench. We are going to lose probably another 20 games this year. And its going to be because of the same thing we saw last night: the Jay's shooting bad, poor rebounding, lack of defensive team defense, and little offense coming from the bench.

That's not broken. Its just the way it is.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2017, 03:44:35 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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We need a bench. We're down Morris and now Theis. These guys are young and we need some veteran scoring off the bench. Anthony Morrow is available, cheap and can shoot.

I suspect Ainge is looking at upgrading the bench in some way.

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2017, 03:54:36 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Aren't the Celtics 11 in rebounding?

Re: Celtics may be broken
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2017, 03:59:27 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Our Boston Celtics could win just HALF of their remaining games and STILL finish with nearly 50 wins.

That 16 game winning streak was SIGNIFICANT.

We're in a tough stretch right now but we'll be OK.
Marcus Smart "Impacts Winning." Boston Celtics Coach Brad Stevens