Author Topic: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)  (Read 3284 times)

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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2018, 07:19:02 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.
I have been going over similar theories for Snoke, and some of them are certainly plausible. However, I have literally no faith in Disney to do anything remotely right

If you guys honestly think JJ Abrams and Co are going to unveil some secret brilliant narrative then i have a bridge to sell you.

They have zero idea of what they are doing, and are banking on nostalgia, confusion, and huge advertising money to keep people distracted from this fact until they can milk enough money from this cash cow to recoup their losses.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #91 on: January 07, 2018, 07:25:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.
I have been going over similar theories for Snoke, and some of them are certainly plausible. However, I have literally no faith in Disney to do anything remotely right

If you guys honestly think JJ Abrams and Co are going to unveil some secret brilliant narrative then i have a bridge to sell you.

They have zero idea of what they are doing, and are banking on nostalgia, confusion, and huge advertising money to keep people distracted from this fact until they can milk enough money from this cash cow to recoup their losses.
100% agree. As soon as they decided that all the other Star Wars stories weren't canon I knew it was all going incredibly downhill incredibly quickly. Such a shame
Wiz:
G: Wall Dragic Johnson Nelson Frazier Bellinelli Meeks F: Oubre Burks Satoransky Morris Scott C: Gobert Dedmon Smith
LAL:
G: Ball Delaney Taylor KCP Allen F: Ingram McDermott Brewer Bembry Kuzma Diallo C: Cousins Lopez Hernangomez Zubac
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #92 on: January 07, 2018, 08:02:36 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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Kind of feel the same way we are reaching for underlying explanations and expanded story lines. Disney just wants summer blockbuster type movies for December. It's to sell merchandise to under 13 kids they won't get complicated
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2018, 09:14:39 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.
I have been going over similar theories for Snoke, and some of them are certainly plausible. However, I have literally no faith in Disney to do anything remotely right

Snoke plays exactly the same role the Emperor did in the original trilogy - shadowy mastermind with basically 0 backstory shows up first as a giant hologram then in person in his throne room to test the main hero and villain while the good guy fleet is getting ambushed and picked off.

Maybe that's to mirror the Emperor's role, maybe it's to add some major twist in the next one, but it's definitely not by accident.


100% agree. As soon as they decided that all the other Star Wars stories weren't canon I knew it was all going incredibly downhill incredibly quickly. Such a shame

As someone who was familiar with most of the other Star Wars stories, ell oh ell. They started off ok and quickly devolved to absurd crap like telepathic bug orgies and this guy:



Lightsaber knees!

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2018, 10:26:14 PM »

Offline gouki88

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.
I have been going over similar theories for Snoke, and some of them are certainly plausible. However, I have literally no faith in Disney to do anything remotely right

Snoke plays exactly the same role the Emperor did in the original trilogy - shadowy mastermind with basically 0 backstory shows up first as a giant hologram then in person in his throne room to test the main hero and villain while the good guy fleet is getting ambushed and picked off.

Maybe that's to mirror the Emperor's role, maybe it's to add some major twist in the next one, but it's definitely not by accident.


100% agree. As soon as they decided that all the other Star Wars stories weren't canon I knew it was all going incredibly downhill incredibly quickly. Such a shame

As someone who was familiar with most of the other Star Wars stories, ell oh ell. They started off ok and quickly devolved to absurd crap like telepathic bug orgies and this guy:



Lightsaber knees!
At least the execution of the emperor as an evil genius wasn't comically bad. The whole "I know every move you make before you make it" scene while the light saber was rattling around next to him was just laughable and cringeworthy.

And yeah, by no means am I saying they were all good. There are like 200+ stories, of course there were going to be absurd stories lol. But some of them were awesome.

Stories like KOTOR and KOTOR2 (yeah yeah, video games, but still) are some of the best Star Wars stories out there, and they were just sort of tossed to the "Legends" pile with little regard (although Rebels has muddled it a bit).

I just have no faith in Disney whatsoever
Wiz:
G: Wall Dragic Johnson Nelson Frazier Bellinelli Meeks F: Oubre Burks Satoransky Morris Scott C: Gobert Dedmon Smith
LAL:
G: Ball Delaney Taylor KCP Allen F: Ingram McDermott Brewer Bembry Kuzma Diallo C: Cousins Lopez Hernangomez Zubac
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2018, 12:12:23 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.
I have been going over similar theories for Snoke, and some of them are certainly plausible. However, I have literally no faith in Disney to do anything remotely right

Snoke plays exactly the same role the Emperor did in the original trilogy - shadowy mastermind with basically 0 backstory shows up first as a giant hologram then in person in his throne room to test the main hero and villain while the good guy fleet is getting ambushed and picked off.

Maybe that's to mirror the Emperor's role, maybe it's to add some major twist in the next one, but it's definitely not by accident.


100% agree. As soon as they decided that all the other Star Wars stories weren't canon I knew it was all going incredibly downhill incredibly quickly. Such a shame

As someone who was familiar with most of the other Star Wars stories, ell oh ell. They started off ok and quickly devolved to absurd crap like telepathic bug orgies and this guy:



Lightsaber knees!
At least the execution of the emperor as an evil genius wasn't comically bad. The whole "I know every move you make before you make it" scene while the light saber was rattling around next to him was just laughable and cringeworthy.

Oh I definitely agree, they're playing off a lot of the same story beats but they rarely develop them as well. Plus we've seen it before. That throneroom scene almost felt like a satire of the Return of the Jedi scene by the end.


And yeah, by no means am I saying they were all good. There are like 200+ stories, of course there were going to be absurd stories lol. But some of them were awesome.

Stories like KOTOR and KOTOR2 (yeah yeah, video games, but still) are some of the best Star Wars stories out there, and they were just sort of tossed to the "Legends" pile with little regard (although Rebels has muddled it a bit).

I just have no faith in Disney whatsoever

Sure, some of the stories were fun, but the stories are still out there, nothing's changed about them.

What I mean is nobody's going to fence themselves in with hundreds of stories of varying quality, mostly unknown outside of hardcore fans, that are mostly about what happens after the original movies. And there's no point in them negotiating through a "Ok Laserknees is out but Prince Xixor is in, except the rape pheromones, they're definitely out" conversation. They're going to leave themselves as much leeway as possible to make new stuff, so "(almost) nothing but the movies counts" is the only logical way to go.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #96 on: January 10, 2018, 05:43:23 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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Maybe Disney should have started with "Luke's Jedi Academy" as films for kids and made it more of a even lighter Harry Potter set in Star Wars universe trilogy. Maybe that would show how teaching kids is what made Luke lose his marbles and all hope lol

But seriously if Disney planned to roll out a universe of films they easily could have made movies for serperate audiences and saved themselves a lot of criticism.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 06:27:44 PM by Csfan1984 »
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #97 on: January 10, 2018, 06:23:11 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I like how many Star Wars Fans who have never wrote anything in their life think they could write better than the Disney Guys who have a history of blockbusters.   To those who think they can I would say there is a 99.9% chance that you can't......

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2018, 06:29:01 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I like how many Star Wars Fans who have never wrote anything in their life think they could write better than the Disney Guys who have a history of blockbusters.   To those who think they can I would say there is a 99.9% chance that you can't......
a blockbuster (good selling movie) does not equate to a well written movie. On the contrary, the most popular movies seem to be poorly to decent  at best written movies  these days


Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #99 on: January 10, 2018, 07:01:06 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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I like how many Star Wars Fans who have never wrote anything in their life think they could write better than the Disney Guys who have a history of blockbusters.   To those who think they can I would say there is a 99.9% chance that you can't......
I think it's not that they could write better than the authors. I say it's more like if they could write anything with Disney breathing down their necks. Disney expects to earn more from merchandise than ticket sales. That puts a story and the direction of any movie under a lot of creative restrictions and enforced mandates.

While Lucas lost his direction ability he still understood the big story and had sci-fi love. I was glad when Disney took over, hoping for more lighter adventure like the original movie. But Disney weren't creative enough in the first film and then went way off track on the plot and characters' development in the second film. While I understood what each film was trying to do the execution got worse. No movie is perfect but they can do better.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:05:26 PM by Csfan1984 »
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #100 on: January 10, 2018, 08:20:33 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Kind of feel the same way we are reaching for underlying explanations and expanded story lines. Disney just wants summer blockbuster type movies for December. It's to sell merchandise to under 13 kids they won't get complicated

Yup. We can probably set our watches to a new Star Wars flick, complete with new characters and ships to merchandise just in time for Christmas most years.