Author Topic: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)  (Read 2820 times)

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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2017, 06:32:03 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I hate it. To me itís the worst Star Wars movie ever and I despise the prequels too but would rather watch them because while they have bad acting, and dialog and special effects I can say that the overall story is interesting. I canít say this at all about The Last Jedi.

 Half the movie is about the slowest space chase ever. Why not hyperdrive a few of those Star Destroyers in front of the resistance ships and circle them? Why       
 did they pull their tie fighters back? When has the Empire/First Order ever cared at all about tie fighter pilots? Just launch all of them at them at one time. Why              was the one Star Destroyer the only one shooting at the ships? And how is it that this massive gun on a Destroyer is not getting past their shields but only two shots from a Tie fighter blew a hole in the bridge? And why not hyperdrive the other 2 resistance ships off in different directions? They canít track all of them at one time going in 2 different directions.

There was too much ďhumorĒ in it and what they had was bad. From Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder and making a face after milking a space walrus to Ray continuing to make the aliens on the island mad or BB-8 being a slot machine it all seemed out of place and forced. I was prequel or RotJ humor and not the stuff I want to see.

 If Luke wanted to die on that island alone then why did R2 have a half a map to find him in the last movie?

Leia playing  Mary Poppins in space. I need not say more on that.

Ray still hasnít been trained in any way on how to be a Jedi. And yet sheís still all powerful somehow.

 The whole casino planet story was useless and added 30 minutes for no reason at all. I felt like I was being lectured by Disney the whole time about greed and animal abuse. All things Iím against but I donít need to be force-feed it in my Star wars movies.

I lean to the left political and I think women should be equal to men and all that good stuff. But this movie just seemed like the men are all idiots who canít get anything right and have to be put in their place by the superior women in charge. It has Disney princes all over it.

I said before Iíve got a problem with the jokes in the film. And the beginning of the movie when Poe is punkín General Hux is another example. It make the First Order look weak and foolish. It makes them not intimidating like the Empire before them. Did you ever see Tarkin, Ozzel or Piett acting like that? No, they had intimidation on their side and not being the butt of gag jokes.

 How did the first order get all of itís money? How did they make their fleet? And what had the new galactic senate been doing for the last 30 years? The Empire was defeated about a year after the battle over Endor and what was left retreated out into space. So in that time youíre telling me the new senate didnít make an army to defend itself? All they have is a few ships and Leia to fight for them?
The Emperor played both sides in the clone wars to build up a massive army that he then took control over and turned the galaxy into his own personal military machine. How in the world did the First order pull off something like that again?  All it comes down to is lazy story telling where the good guys must be outnumbered and out of hope against a superior advisory. Iíd rather they just had two equal forces go up against one another like an actual war.


 Force ghost canít interact with the physical world. Yodaís ghost shouldnít be able to make lightning hit a tree or knock Luke in the head with his force walking stick. Obi-Wan told Luke in The Empire Strikes Back ďif you choose to face Vader you will do it alone, I can not interfere.Ē If force ghosts can interact with the physical world then Ben could've blow up the first Death Star on his own. Or Ben and Yoda  couldíve just killed the Emperor and Vader themselves after turning to ghosts.

 Bombs donít fall in space. When that one bomber was trying to drop itís payload I keeps saying ďplease have them shoot out of the thing and not dropĒ but sure enough they fell out of the thing. But unlike a bomber flying over a planet the ones in space donít have gravity on itís side.

 How did Finn get Rose back to the base after she crashed their two land speeders? And both of those characters are extremely annoying by the way.

 Why didnít Maz Kanataís character just give them a name rather then tell them to look for a defining characteristic? And who was filming her run around in a gun fight during their iChat? And why didnít the first order not intercept the transmission? And why was that pointless, digital looking character in the movie in the first place?

Why did the First order land itís At-Atís and big gun so far away from the base? They didnít have shields like Hothís base did so they couldnít landed right up to the door and blown a hole in it. We didnít need to see a bad recreation of the battle of Hoth in this movie with the slowest, most pointless speeders ever.

And the resistance wouldíve had itís base door closes after they landed. They wouldnít hold off until the bad guy started flying in and then close the door. The crashing ship happened to have two idiots on the resistance in it but it couldíve also been full of enemy troopers.

Why in movies do they have to make any important technology look fancy? Iím sure the Hyperspace tracker would just look like a computer in a control room. There is no need for it to look like the Star Wars version of the flux capacitor.

Once again they made Captain Phasma a wussy. Why even have this idiotically named character in the movies at all?

Kylo Ren didnít notice that Luke was fighting him with the same blue light saber that was just pulled apart by him and Rey not 15 minutes ago up in the throne room? Did he think he fixed it?

Directing problems like R2 playing the Leia recording to Luke in the Falcon. Well R2 turns his head to look at Luke but the video stays put in the same spot. If R2 turns his head the video would move with it. Finnís bag magically being put down in one spot and then the next shot i being in another place. Or Luke becoming one with the force and his body disappearing and only leaving his cloths but not his robotic hand too. These are little things that if I notice with one viewing then how do the people working for years not see?
your criticism is very valid. I liked the movie but all these things bothered me. Also how did Finn suddenly get healed back to normal and fighting form like nothing happened? He fights the most powerful stormtrooper the day he wakes up from his coma without a scratch. This is after piloting some ships. How did he learn to pilot during his coma? We learned in the first few minutes of the force awakens that Finn ďneeds a pilotĒ because he canít fly anything.  You have to be kidding me

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2017, 07:16:49 PM »

Offline greg683x

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I saw the movie yesterday and have mixed feelings.  I dont like it and I dont hate it.

I will say this.  Personally when it comes to these type of movies, Great villains make the movie for me.  I LOVE!!! a good bad guy.  Whether its Darth Vader, Magneto or Apocalypse in the XMen, T1000 in T2, Bane and the Joker in the Dark Knight movies, etc

I cannot say enough how much I dont like what they did with the villains in this movie.

I was worried about them making a Darth Vader ripoff in TFA, but they had me liking the Kylo Ren character and thats gone down to a luke warm feeling after this movie.

Supreme Leader Snoke was such a waste......hopefully thats not completely finished

and Captain Phasmas fight was terribly done and couldve been a good moment in the movie, instead it lasted two seconds.  I dont have a problem with Fin winning (though by my count he should have died 4 times now), but the fight was just short and sloppily written.   

there are a bunch of other things that I didnt care for that people have already mentioned and go without saying (like Lea in space, how had no one veto'd that scene all throughout the movie making process???)

there are a bunch of other things that folks are making a big deal over that I really think is just too much and in some cases trying to pile on.  But hey to each their own.

But for me personally, and on a simple level, as someone who enjoys a good sci-fi action/comic book hero film.  The handling of the villains really bothered me.
Greg

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2018, 05:11:18 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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loved it and thought it was better than force awakens. looking forward to seeing what happens next.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2018, 05:46:50 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
loved it and thought it was better than force awakens

I thought it was better than the force awakens too.

Quote
Great villains make the movie for me.  I LOVE!!! a good bad guy.  Whether its Darth Vader, Magneto or Apocalypse in the XMen, T1000 in T2, Bane and the Joker in the Dark Knight movies, etc

Out of those movies, Darth Vader and Joker were good villains the rest are meh.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2018, 06:38:10 PM »

Offline Redz

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I hate it. To me itís the worst Star Wars movie ever and I despise the prequels too but would rather watch them because while they have bad acting, and dialog and special effects I can say that the overall story is interesting. I canít say this at all about The Last Jedi.

 Half the movie is about the slowest space chase ever. Why not hyperdrive a few of those Star Destroyers in front of the resistance ships and circle them? Why       
 did they pull their tie fighters back? When has the Empire/First Order ever cared at all about tie fighter pilots? Just launch all of them at them at one time. Why              was the one Star Destroyer the only one shooting at the ships? And how is it that this massive gun on a Destroyer is not getting past their shields but only two shots from a Tie fighter blew a hole in the bridge? And why not hyperdrive the other 2 resistance ships off in different directions? They canít track all of them at one time going in 2 different directions.

There was too much ďhumorĒ in it and what they had was bad. From Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder and making a face after milking a space walrus to Ray continuing to make the aliens on the island mad or BB-8 being a slot machine it all seemed out of place and forced. I was prequel or RotJ humor and not the stuff I want to see.

 If Luke wanted to die on that island alone then why did R2 have a half a map to find him in the last movie?

Leia playing  Mary Poppins in space. I need not say more on that.

Ray still hasnít been trained in any way on how to be a Jedi. And yet sheís still all powerful somehow.

 The whole casino planet story was useless and added 30 minutes for no reason at all. I felt like I was being lectured by Disney the whole time about greed and animal abuse. All things Iím against but I donít need to be force-feed it in my Star wars movies.

I lean to the left political and I think women should be equal to men and all that good stuff. But this movie just seemed like the men are all idiots who canít get anything right and have to be put in their place by the superior women in charge. It has Disney princes all over it.

I said before Iíve got a problem with the jokes in the film. And the beginning of the movie when Poe is punkín General Hux is another example. It make the First Order look weak and foolish. It makes them not intimidating like the Empire before them. Did you ever see Tarkin, Ozzel or Piett acting like that? No, they had intimidation on their side and not being the butt of gag jokes.

 How did the first order get all of itís money? How did they make their fleet? And what had the new galactic senate been doing for the last 30 years? The Empire was defeated about a year after the battle over Endor and what was left retreated out into space. So in that time youíre telling me the new senate didnít make an army to defend itself? All they have is a few ships and Leia to fight for them?
The Emperor played both sides in the clone wars to build up a massive army that he then took control over and turned the galaxy into his own personal military machine. How in the world did the First order pull off something like that again?  All it comes down to is lazy story telling where the good guys must be outnumbered and out of hope against a superior advisory. Iíd rather they just had two equal forces go up against one another like an actual war.


 Force ghost canít interact with the physical world. Yodaís ghost shouldnít be able to make lightning hit a tree or knock Luke in the head with his force walking stick. Obi-Wan told Luke in The Empire Strikes Back ďif you choose to face Vader you will do it alone, I can not interfere.Ē If force ghosts can interact with the physical world then Ben could've blow up the first Death Star on his own. Or Ben and Yoda  couldíve just killed the Emperor and Vader themselves after turning to ghosts.

 Bombs donít fall in space. When that one bomber was trying to drop itís payload I keeps saying ďplease have them shoot out of the thing and not dropĒ but sure enough they fell out of the thing. But unlike a bomber flying over a planet the ones in space donít have gravity on itís side.

 How did Finn get Rose back to the base after she crashed their two land speeders? And both of those characters are extremely annoying by the way.

 Why didnít Maz Kanataís character just give them a name rather then tell them to look for a defining characteristic? And who was filming her run around in a gun fight during their iChat? And why didnít the first order not intercept the transmission? And why was that pointless, digital looking character in the movie in the first place?

Why did the First order land itís At-Atís and big gun so far away from the base? They didnít have shields like Hothís base did so they couldnít landed right up to the door and blown a hole in it. We didnít need to see a bad recreation of the battle of Hoth in this movie with the slowest, most pointless speeders ever.

And the resistance wouldíve had itís base door closes after they landed. They wouldnít hold off until the bad guy started flying in and then close the door. The crashing ship happened to have two idiots on the resistance in it but it couldíve also been full of enemy troopers.

Why in movies do they have to make any important technology look fancy? Iím sure the Hyperspace tracker would just look like a computer in a control room. There is no need for it to look like the Star Wars version of the flux capacitor.

Once again they made Captain Phasma a wussy. Why even have this idiotically named character in the movies at all?

Kylo Ren didnít notice that Luke was fighting him with the same blue light saber that was just pulled apart by him and Rey not 15 minutes ago up in the throne room? Did he think he fixed it?

Directing problems like R2 playing the Leia recording to Luke in the Falcon. Well R2 turns his head to look at Luke but the video stays put in the same spot. If R2 turns his head the video would move with it. Finnís bag magically being put down in one spot and then the next shot i being in another place. Or Luke becoming one with the force and his body disappearing and only leaving his cloths but not his robotic hand too. These are little things that if I notice with one viewing then how do the people working for years not see?
your criticism is very valid. I liked the movie but all these things bothered me. Also how did Finn suddenly get healed back to normal and fighting form like nothing happened? He fights the most powerful stormtrooper the day he wakes up from his coma without a scratch. This is after piloting some ships. How did he learn to pilot during his coma? We learned in the first few minutes of the force awakens that Finn ďneeds a pilotĒ because he canít fly anything.  You have to be kidding me

Ignorance is bliss I guess.  I enjoyed it.

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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2018, 10:59:17 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I'm not sure if Mark Hamill really has a big head, or if the way he dressed in this movie just creates that optical effect ...

And I'm totally not mocking anyone who has a big head ...

But it seemed to me, throughout the movie, that Luke's head is disproportionately large, and that kinda distracted me. Anyone else have that issue?

I'll offer a more in-depth review of TLJ later (I'm sure you're all waiting with bated breath!).
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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2018, 12:11:57 AM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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He should have quit while he was still a head

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2018, 02:42:26 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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It's a little late but I've seen this twice now - second time gave me a lot of perspective on the first

Thoughts:

- Enjoyed the movie overall. Had little problem with a lot of the thematic elements, but the execution often felt sloppy or rushed.

- One example of this - unlike a lot of people, I really liked how Luke went out. Drawing the enemy's aggression to yourself to save the ones you love without using any violence yourself is very on point for the ideals of the Jedi.  But there wasn't enough to show his shift from disgruntled Hobbit to hero, and having to hide that he wasn't actually there didn't let them build up to his death/dissolution well enough.

- The Finn/Rose storyline seems even more pointless the second time around, though Del Toro was great in his role. But take them out and the plot barely changes. A big theme of the movie was gaining from failure but it really just felt like they didn't have anything good for Finn to do.

- A great bit of foreshadowing that's easy to miss - when Leia does her Superman thing (silly but whatever), there's a tipped over hologram of Snoke's ship on the bridge. She cuts through it in the exact spot that the cruiser eventually does.

- They shouldn't have done Ackbar like that. He at least could've piloted the kamikaze run!

- I really don't care much for Rey's character - her entire personality seems to be A. being awesome at everything right away with basically no doubts or struggles, and B. wanting to know who her parents were, which is resolved by basically saying "they weren't famous so it's like they didn't exist". Hope there's more to that plot thread in the next one, the Dark Side cave seemed like it was hinting at something more meaningful.

- Kylo Ren was a much better character this time around. Genuinely no real idea how his story plays out, but really enjoyed Driver's performance.

- Just like Force Awakens they seem to be trying to take a lot of the same plot beats from the original trilogy and take a different spin on them. They do a better job here but it still feels derivative and flat at some points. Like how Snoke is basically exactly the Emperor but with his story sped up by one movie.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 03:19:19 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2018, 03:48:08 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2018, 04:26:46 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.
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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2018, 04:30:30 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #86 on: January 07, 2018, 04:47:21 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.
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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #87 on: January 07, 2018, 06:00:45 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2018, 06:36:01 PM »

Offline gouki88

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One quick thought following up on Snoke. Early in the movie he somehow manages to use the force on general Hux even though Snoke is not really there, he is just viewed via projection. That suggests he can project himself anywhere and still use the force on people as if he were really there. Thus, he could have never actually been in the throne room, it could have been a projection of Snoke, who allowed Kylo Ren to think he killed him, but he is not dead, he was never there to begin with. This would be totally in line with Snoke's character as a very clever master who excels in manipulation.
I would think combining powers at that level probably isn't likely but seeing what happened with the dice, does that say yes you can project and manipulate objects?
One problem I would have is if it drained Luke to project and interact a little to the point he died how does Snoke survive when he was projecting, flinging stuff around and mind reading people. I'd think if he wasn't there he'd be dead anyways. Or at best he would be a sith Ghost.

Or he's older and more powerful than Luke ever was?  The dice are certainly a great clue, and were hinted at strongly at the end of the film. The images of Snoke's 'corpse' were just weird, something was off. Nothing would be more badass and manipulative than totally screwing with Kylo's mind by making him think he killed Snoke, and nothing would be a better way to test Kylo's true nature than that.
Maybe they will try to save Snoke that way but I doubt it. I feel they just wanted to Snoke to die by Kylo using Snoke's own mind trick against him. The trick being Snoke manipulated and tricked Rey and Kylo with false visions, Kylo manipulated Snoke with a false vision to kill him.

I think there is more to Snoke than let on. Theres that symbol on the floor of the temple, it's of the prime Jedi, split in half, one side light, one side dark wearing a gold cloack. And if you notice Snokes head is split down the middle.

There are stories of Force users that use Mindtricks, he could have done this if he is the Prime Jedi.  For one reason why would he say Rey was Rens true enemy. It would be more likely Luke over Rey. He wants Rey to join him. Even if Ren was thinking it to trick Snoke, Snoke would have figured that out. Also why did Snokes guards attack Ren and Rey if he's dead. Who are they fighting for? I think Snoke wants Rens power for himself but needed him to make the choice of darkside to do it, and nothing screams dark side then an apprentice killing the master.

I could see Snoke draining Ren of Darkside force, leaving a weakend Ben Solo.
I have been going over similar theories for Snoke, and some of them are certainly plausible. However, I have literally no faith in Disney to do anything remotely right
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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2018, 06:51:31 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Just saw, my wife and I both loved it.  Sorry no in depth review.