Author Topic: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)  (Read 2822 times)

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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2017, 08:14:38 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Overall, and excellent Star Wars movie, in the top 3 imo. I think what will bother a lot of people is what makes it great, it challenges many views and expectations held by hard core Star Wars fans.

The depth added to each character is a huge improvement over The Force Awakens. We see flaws in Poe , Rey, in the Rebellion leadership group, even in Luke himself and in turn why someone becomes 'good' or 'evil' is less clear cut. For example the change in how we view Laura Dern's character from good, to evil, and then to heroic all in a shot time frame based on a change in viewpoint is fantastic.

I particularly love what they do with updating the perspective of The Force, in Luke's conversations with Rey and his scenes with Yoda, which are golden. The idea that the force does not belong to anyone and not to any religion, even the Jedi, and is not a power to be exploited but instead a balance of forces (life/death, good/evil, etc.) that was also reaffirmed by Yoda later was excellent.

The main message that anyone can be special, you don''t need to be the child of someone great, is also an inspiring tone for young audiences. The final scene with the random boy with the broom who shows force powers reaffirms that theme. That said, I am still betting Kylo Ren lied to Rey about her parents being random losers.

My only disappointment, as others noted, is the lack of backstory on Snoke. I'm ok with his easy death in the middle, it was within the theme of destroying strong fan beliefs, and also doubles down on Kylo Ren's jealousy, insecurity and rage over his so called good side. The way Snoke played both Rey and Kylo telepathically to make her come there and reveal Luke's location was really cool though.

Lastly, Luke's sendoff was done extremely well and was totally badass. They did justice to his character. I'm so glad he was not killed by an inferior foe.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 08:36:41 PM by hpantazo »

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2017, 09:22:45 PM »

Offline MasterEmile

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Exellent movie, can't say enough good things about it. Although it had some issues:

-The Finn and Rose story really bogged down the film, removing that part would make this a way better movie.

- Although I liked snoke's death I was really hoping for at least some backstory or a cool fight scene. Like what IS Snoke ?

- Some problems with the cutting and editing, maybe I'm just not used to the director.

Positives:
- The entire cast is perfect, acting is top notch. Adam Driver , Daisy Ridley and of course Mark Hamill shine the brightest.

-Insane visuals and fighting scenes. Best by far in the series.

-The unpredictability. Rey's parents are nobodies, Snoke and Luke die, Kylo and Rey almost turning...

-Snoke's death. Amazing moment with the lightsaber fight right behind it.  While I would've loved some backstory people forget that the emperor got introduced and killed in the OT with LESS backstory than Snoke.

-Complete character arcs. Po from crazy pilot to responsible leader. Finn from a coward trying to flee the FO to being ready to risk his life to the cause, twice. Kylo from being on the edge(not killing his mom) to fully embracing the dark side.

-Great comedy.

-Amazing attention to details.

Can go on and on ....

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2017, 10:47:31 PM »

Offline go11celtics

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Exellent movie, can't say enough good things about it. Although it had some issues:

-The Finn and Rose story really bogged down the film, removing that part would make this a way better movie.

- Although I liked snoke's death I was really hoping for at least some backstory or a cool fight scene. Like what IS Snoke ?

- Some problems with the cutting and editing, maybe I'm just not used to the director.

Positives:
- The entire cast is perfect, acting is top notch. Adam Driver , Daisy Ridley and of course Mark Hamill shine the brightest.

-Insane visuals and fighting scenes. Best by far in the series.

-The unpredictability. Rey's parents are nobodies, Snoke and Luke die, Kylo and Rey almost turning...

-Snoke's death. Amazing moment with the lightsaber fight right behind it.  While I would've loved some backstory people forget that the emperor got introduced and killed in the OT with LESS backstory than Snoke.

-Complete character arcs. Po from crazy pilot to responsible leader. Finn from a coward trying to flee the FO to being ready to risk his life to the cause, twice. Kylo from being on the edge(not killing his mom) to fully embracing the dark side.

-Great comedy.

-Amazing attention to details.

Can go on and on ....

This is pretty much exactly how I felt, especially with your first point about Rey/Ren/Luke.

Only other drawback was the Leia space scene. Just too ridiculous in my opinion.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2017, 01:15:56 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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Excellent film

Haters blasted the last 4 recent star wars...yet still are the 1st ones to lineup for the last jedi and will be first ones to lineup to watch the next star wars etc

Hilarious

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2017, 07:53:53 AM »

Offline Chief

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I'm not real excited about the next one.  :-[
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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2017, 08:09:41 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Exellent movie, can't say enough good things about it. Although it had some issues:

-The Finn and Rose story really bogged down the film, removing that part would make this a way better movie.

- Although I liked snoke's death I was really hoping for at least some backstory or a cool fight scene. Like what IS Snoke ?

- Some problems with the cutting and editing, maybe I'm just not used to the director.

Positives:
- The entire cast is perfect, acting is top notch. Adam Driver , Daisy Ridley and of course Mark Hamill shine the brightest.

-Insane visuals and fighting scenes. Best by far in the series.

-The unpredictability. Rey's parents are nobodies, Snoke and Luke die, Kylo and Rey almost turning...

-Snoke's death. Amazing moment with the lightsaber fight right behind it.  While I would've loved some backstory people forget that the emperor got introduced and killed in the OT with LESS backstory than Snoke.

-Complete character arcs. Po from crazy pilot to responsible leader. Finn from a coward trying to flee the FO to being ready to risk his life to the cause, twice. Kylo from being on the edge(not killing his mom) to fully embracing the dark side.

-Great comedy.

-Amazing attention to details.

Can go on and on ....

This is exactly how I feel as well. I appreciate it for what it was.

I'm a huge face of scifi, but I still want scifi story lines to follow scifi logic. I struggled to stay in the story at times because of their forced plot mechanics (ie. the rebel ship had enough power to get out of the main range of the firing of the first order ship, but not enough to continue to pull away). This is coming from a huge Treky and Dr. Who fan, who mastered the art of the forced plot mechanic.

That said, you can't ask for a better cast, a better pay off with Kylo and Rey, and a better crazy old Jedi than Luke.
I talk all NBA, NBA Draft, Celtics, fantasy football, and other sports at www.treytalkssports.com

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2017, 08:47:09 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
-The Finn and Rose story really bogged down the film, removing that part would make this a way better movie.

-Snoke's death. Amazing moment with the lightsaber fight right behind it.  While I would've loved some backstory people forget that the emperor got introduced and killed in the OT with LESS backstory than Snoke.

So you disliked the story of Finn and Rose, characters who matter but wanted more story elsewhere.

I am going to give folks a word of advice.   Go to a movie to enjoy it not pick it apart.   It meant to be entertainment, not a time to play Rex Reed.   You will enjoy things more if you do this...

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2017, 09:23:14 AM »

Offline eja117

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My only minor issue with it is I would think it would be common practice to ram a ship at light speed and you could easily just send a droid to do it. They could have used the other ships

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2017, 10:38:13 AM »

Offline MasterEmile

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Quote
-The Finn and Rose story really bogged down the film, removing that part would make this a way better movie.

-Snoke's death. Amazing moment with the lightsaber fight right behind it.  While I would've loved some backstory people forget that the emperor got introduced and killed in the OT with LESS backstory than Snoke.

So you disliked the story of Finn and Rose, characters who matter but wanted more story elsewhere.

I am going to give folks a word of advice.   Go to a movie to enjoy it not pick it apart.   It meant to be entertainment, not a time to play Rex Reed.   You will enjoy things more if you do this...

Well I really loved the movie (you kinda skipped that part).

Some things in the movie I really found boring, while other parts I really found interesting. Doesn't mean I was picking the movie apart it just means I wasn't "entertained" during a part of the movie.

And does Finn and Rose being important characters mean I have to care about everything they are doing?

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2017, 10:52:26 AM »

Offline Goldstar88

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It was one of the worst movies I've seen in a long time. Disney ruined Star Wars for me.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2017, 11:11:49 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
I am going to give folks a word of advice.   Go to a movie to enjoy it not pick it apart.   It meant to be entertainment, not a time to play Rex Reed.

I agree. I’ve found myself thinking “well, that could have been better” and “that didn’t make a ton of sense” after the fact. In the moment, though, I really enjoyed it. Was it worth the price of admission? Heck, yes.



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Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2017, 11:58:25 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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Saw it twice on Thursday, and I like it much more the second time when the anticipation had passed and I could digest it for a couple hours. Second time around I just watched it and looked for the small things.

Complaining about Leia's scene and putting "science" into the argument is a little weak, remember, nothing actually explodes in space with fire but it happens all the time. But an other Jedi had done the same thing in the clone wars so it's possible in Star Wars lore.

A little too slap sticky at times, but really good over all.

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2017, 12:27:43 PM »

Offline jackpercussion

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There will be another Star Wars' movie to explain Stokes role.


Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2017, 12:56:50 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I disagree with those who say Finn and Rose's story was useless. It actually serves several important points beyond just reminding us of the expanse of the Star Wars universe by showing us a new world with new characters and creatures and some cool action.

1) It is an important story for showing us an example of why the First Order is so terrible and has to be taken down. We never really saw much to explain why the Empire was so detrimental to everyday people in the past. The scenes with Rose on the Casino world illustrate how the First Order impacts everyday people, turning her family and others into slaves and forcing them to a lifetime of hard labor for the entertainment and profit of the ruling class, including those who 'buy and sell weapons to both sides". This is a critical illustration and a strong reference to today's society.

In that sense, that story also illustrates how the Rebellion/Resistance is growing in that working class/slave population, through Rose, but even more through the kids working on that Casino with their secret rings displaying the symbol of the Resistance, it is kept hush hush, which may be why nobody responds to Lea's distress calls, but they are there, and they are growing. The legends of Luke Skywalker and others have helped them to have some mythical figures to believe in.

2) The same story also reinforces the point made earlier when Lea told Poe he failed by going out on his own and disobeying orders, because although he killed the main craft of the First Order, he cost the Resistance several lives.

In this story with Finn and Rose, they again go out on their own and disobey orders for heroic purpose, and for lack of trust in their leadership. It backfires very badly. Not only do they get captured and fail to destroy the tracker, they inadvertently, through Del'Toro's character, reveal the escape plan of the Resistance to the First Order, and that is the major reason why the First Order gets decimated and ends up cornered and in ruins on the salt planet.

Throughout this episode, the point is made to trust in each other if you hope to make progress. Poe and Finn try to be heroes and almost get the Resistance totally destroyed.

Luke did not trust in himself and in Ben, and Ben did not trust in Luke, which causes Ben to become Kylo Ren, and causes Luke to cut himself off from the Force and the world in general.

3) Lastly, the story of Rose and Finn culminates in Rose risking her life to stop Finn from sacrificing himself to destroy the cannon. It ends with the line from Rose that " We should protect the things we love , not destroy the things we hate. That's how we win". This is a major point in the movie and a direct reference to current events. Suicide bombers don't accomplish anything by trying to destroy the things they hate, they should ban together and protect the things they love, the purity and brilliance of their religion and culture. Similarly, in current U.S. politics, trying to destroy the other side by sacrificing yourself and your ideals does not get us anywhere, trusting in each other and protecting the things that are good is much more effective.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 01:02:12 PM by hpantazo »

Re: "The Last Jedi" (Not Spoiler-Free)
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2017, 01:14:25 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Quote
-The Finn and Rose story really bogged down the film, removing that part would make this a way better movie.

-Snoke's death. Amazing moment with the lightsaber fight right behind it.  While I would've loved some backstory people forget that the emperor got introduced and killed in the OT with LESS backstory than Snoke.

So you disliked the story of Finn and Rose, characters who matter but wanted more story elsewhere.

I am going to give folks a word of advice.   Go to a movie to enjoy it not pick it apart.   It meant to be entertainment, not a time to play Rex Reed.   You will enjoy things more if you do this...

Although just because you went to a movie to have a good time doesn't mean you will have a good time. Force awakens was pretty good. rogue one was very good. Last Jedi was bad.

The central plot of of trying to outrun the bad guys while a hero goes to a casino for help was like a bad plot out of the 1980s battlestar gallactica. I didn't know which character I was supposed to feel attached too. There was no emotional investment. Characters and plot points resolved too quickly. Too many lame jokes, like a shirtless Kylo Ren... The lame joes felt more like Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars.

And most of all, this movie tried to ruin Luke Skywalker and all the triumphs of the rebellion in Return of the Jedi.  Luke is a failed teacher, attempted murderer, grumpy loser, and a jerk. Great, that's not very entertaining. So much for the mythology and hero's journey that made the original trilogy so great.

Anyway, if you liked it cool. Enjoy. Adventure movies in particular are indeed made for popcorn entertainment. But if someone doesn't like it, don't point the finger at the viewer for having a bad experience. There are many more reasons than what I listed for a person to not like this movie.