Author Topic: The Kyrie Effect  (Read 1057 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Kyrie Effect
« on: December 14, 2017, 09:13:10 AM »

Offline timpiker

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1073
  • Tommy Points: 65
After watching the Nuggets game last night I have come to the conclusion that this team is not as good as I thought.  Ok, I'll say it - without Kyrie I think this would be a .500 team.  At best.

Oh, I like most of the team and see their value but I don't see anyone, other than Kyrie, than can take over a game, make their own shots and hit shots in the clutch.

And the 2nd team, after watching the Spurs game I noticed they have actual scorers coming off the bench - Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol and others.  These guys can score with their 2nd team and its obvious we don't have an answer to that.

I just thought I'd share my thoughts.

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 09:26:22 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1606
  • Tommy Points: 315
I think that few would disagree with you. Without Kyrie and Hayward, we would be a 500 team.

But then again, without Harden and Paul so would the Rockets. Without Aldridge and Leonard, so would the Spurs. Without Lowry and DeRozan, so would the Raptors. Without Curry and Durant, so would the Warriors.

Take away the best two players from any other team, and they are below 500.

The testament to this team is what they have been able to do as they play through injuries to different players, as a young team, with a completely overhauled roster.
I talk all NBA, NBA Draft, Celtics, fantasy football, and other sports at www.treytalkssports.com

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 09:38:23 AM »

Online Monkhouse

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4212
  • Tommy Points: 359
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
After watching the Nuggets game last night I have come to the conclusion that this team is not as good as I thought.  Ok, I'll say it - without Kyrie I think this would be a .500 team.  At best.

Oh, I like most of the team and see their value but I don't see anyone, other than Kyrie, than can take over a game, make their own shots and hit shots in the clutch.

And the 2nd team, after watching the Spurs game I noticed they have actual scorers coming off the bench - Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol and others.  These guys can score with their 2nd team and its obvious we don't have an answer to that.

I just thought I'd share my thoughts.

Well.... yeah.... I mean Rudy Gay and Pau Gasol are over 30... Their well past their prime, but clearly have advanced offensive moves in their arsenal which comes with time and experience in the league... Plus being able to be fed easy setups, and plays especially during give and go's that Pops loves to use with Mills or Parker on Pau Gasol's screens...

You're being very harsh on a team that has 6 rookies, and already lost their second best player... If we're being realistic, I know if Hayward was healthy, in hindsight this thread wouldn't have been created. We're winning games by hustling harder, and wanting it more, plus our defense is still darn good. Last time I checked, defense was still a key ingredient to a championship, so while our young team, (4th youngest in the league by the way,) is still inexperienced and unable to 'make,' or create shots, (which is slightly half true by the way...) I think over time, and acquiring maybe one or two more shooters at the PF/SG spot, we'll see an uptick in offensive production.
Life is too short to worry about what other people think about you...

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful."

Check out my soundcloud if you get a chance!
www.soundcloud.com/monkhouse-3

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 01:44:29 PM »

Offline timpiker

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1073
  • Tommy Points: 65
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 01:55:04 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1606
  • Tommy Points: 315
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Still the best record in the NBA. It's really tough for us Celtic fans right now, isn't it?

It could be worse -- we could be Magic fans.

*shudder*
I talk all NBA, NBA Draft, Celtics, fantasy football, and other sports at www.treytalkssports.com

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 01:59:33 PM »

Online Monkhouse

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4212
  • Tommy Points: 359
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Do you not think the Nuggets fans thought the same exact thing when Brown torched them for a tune of 28 points that following game?....


But we have the best record in the NBA, and we haven't lost a single back to back.... Honestly it sounds like to me your nitpicking on a few games where Murray/Harris caught fire... Even the best defenses cannot always shut down players that are heat-checking...
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Still the best record in the NBA. It's really tough for us Celtic fans right now, isn't it?

It could be worse -- we could be Magic fans.

*shudder*
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Still the best record in the NBA. It's really tough for us Celtic fans right now, isn't it?

It could be worse -- we could be Magic fans.

*shudder*


This.
Life is too short to worry about what other people think about you...

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful."

Check out my soundcloud if you get a chance!
www.soundcloud.com/monkhouse-3

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 04:23:38 PM »

Offline timpiker

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1073
  • Tommy Points: 65
I guess I had hoped we'd more than a 1 man team.  The team looks so much different with and without Kyrie.  Its night and day.  I'm a believer in the players and Brad but this is ridiculous, best record or not.

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 04:36:26 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1606
  • Tommy Points: 315
I guess I had hoped we'd more than a 1 man team.  The team looks so much different with and without Kyrie.  Its night and day.  I'm a believer in the players and Brad but this is ridiculous, best record or not.

In fairness we did beat Toronto a few weeks ago without Kyrie. That was a good win for us as a team.

I wouldn't say the Chicago loss proves we are a one-man team, any more than I would say that we don't need Kyrie because we beat Toronto without him.

Chicago was a terrible loss for us, as a young team, without several key players (arguably down 3 starters). That's a lot to overcome for any team.
I talk all NBA, NBA Draft, Celtics, fantasy football, and other sports at www.treytalkssports.com

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 05:04:12 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3579
  • Tommy Points: 240
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Yeah we don't have former star veterans as our bench role players; we have a metric crap ton of rookies because we are still building, not contending, and need to develop a deep stable of talent. It's going well so far I think.

We would maybe, maybe win a close game here or there with veterans who have experience closing out games, but really we're playing for the next couple of years.

I'm surprised to see Semi ahead of Yabu on the depth chart. I expected Yabu, as a higher pick with a year behind him as a pro, to play some, but have been very pleased with Ojele's game and progress. He'll stick in the league for quite a while.

And I like that the team might not have as much success without Kyrie, but they don't look clueless. It's not a completely different team without him.

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 05:44:31 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3116
  • Tommy Points: 470
I guess I had hoped we'd more than a 1 man team.  The team looks so much different with and without Kyrie.  Its night and day.  I'm a believer in the players and Brad but this is ridiculous, best record or not.

This IS more than a 1 man team.  Don't read so much into 1 game.

This team won against Toronto without Kyrie.

They didn't lose against the Bulls because they were missing one player.  They lost because (a) a LOT of Celtics players had absurdly bad shooting games and (b) Mirotic and Portis both had unconscious shooting games that were way out of band.  Throw in that three other guys off their bench (Nwaba, Grant & Zipser) combined to shoot 7 of 12 and it was just one of those odd games.

Odd games -- both wins and losses -- happen in a season.  The 2008 World Champion Celtics lost 3 of 4 games to the Wizards that year, who were a far inferior team.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 05:48:36 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12148
  • Tommy Points: 2398
He is not even in his prime yet and his effect is being noted....

He is no LeBron James but he is a bonafide MVP candidate....maybe not 1st or 2nd choice but he could very well be in top 5-10 MVP range..

My statement above will be better quantified as this season progresses.....we also NEED to get deep into the playoffs and ideally BEAT LeBron James, IT and CLE...

Do this and to ME he's a bonafide top-3 MVP candidate.

Get us to the Finals.
Marcus Smart "Impacts Winning." Boston Celtics Coach Brad Stevens

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 05:51:32 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3116
  • Tommy Points: 470
I don't mean to be hard on them and I guess most teams would suck without their top 2 players.  And you're right we do have a LOT of rookies.  I dunno, it was just depressing watching the Bulls game without Kyrie and the Spurs game and their 2nd team and Aldridge had Horford as his b*tch that night.  Then last night watching Harris and Murray [dang] near kill us if it wasn't for Kyrie.  I guess I've been hoping we'd have a strong team like the Spurs, even when we're missing some players.  Maybe in 2-3 years.....

Yeah we don't have former star veterans as our bench role players; we have a metric crap ton of rookies because we are still building, not contending, and need to develop a deep stable of talent. It's going well so far I think.

We would maybe, maybe win a close game here or there with veterans who have experience closing out games, but really we're playing for the next couple of years.

I'm surprised to see Semi ahead of Yabu on the depth chart. I expected Yabu, as a higher pick with a year behind him as a pro, to play some, but have been very pleased with Ojele's game and progress. He'll stick in the league for quite a while.

And I like that the team might not have as much success without Kyrie, but they don't look clueless. It's not a completely different team without him.

Semi is a year older than Yabusele.  And I think his expectations are different.  Semi just needs to play great D as a wing who can switch 2-3-4 to get floor time.   Yabusele's ultimate expectations are to try to be a larger part of the offense.   I think they want to mold him to be able to play a 'scoring point/forward' role ala Horford or his countryman, Diaw.   He's got all the raw skills for that role, but that's going to take time before he's going to be trusted to do it in rotation minutes at the NBA level.  I don't expect Yabusele to be able to get rotation minutes until next year.   I.E., he seems more on the slow Rozier development track than the fast Tatum track.   We might see more of him on the floor near the end of this season.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.
#OneCitizenOneVote - True Election Reform:  Eliminate the anti-democratic Electoral College farce now.

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2017, 01:27:05 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2424
  • Tommy Points: 133
Kyrie is our superstar player.  Of course we are worse without him.

The scary part about Kyrie is that he has adapted and improved since leaving Cleveland.

Check out this well written evaluation of how Kyrie's game has evolved since donning the Green.  Being with the Celtics have made him a better player as well.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2017/12/15/how-kyrie-irving-has-evolved-with-the-celtics

I'll echo some posts above that we have won without Kyrie.  But it's not ideal to do so.  And we were quite undermanned and looked tired against the Bulls.  Kyrie wasn't the only one out, I believe we have no Morris for a while as well.

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2017, 02:01:12 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12035
  • Tommy Points: 1520
  • bammokja
I guess I had hoped we'd more than a 1 man team.  The team looks so much different with and without Kyrie.  Its night and day.  I'm a believer in the players and Brad but this is ridiculous, best record or not.
well, perhaps not quite a dire as you seem to imply here. without kyrie, the celtics beat toronto and the hornets.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: The Kyrie Effect
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 10:42:42 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1454
  • Tommy Points: 160
Irving is dominating the ball too much. As his scoring has increased, his assists have gone way down. The other players are not involved in the offense like last year.

We are not seeing the player movement, ball movement that was the calling-card of Stevens' offense since he came to Boston. Just hope Stevens is hard-nosed enough to demand that Irving start moving more and shooting & dribbling less.