Author Topic: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?  (Read 13674 times)

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Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2017, 06:35:22 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Wasn't he a rookie last year.     

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 The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all.   I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there.   But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence.   NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses.   That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles.  It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.
He was technically a rookie but he never played and was strictly a D-League player.

But I agree, I think he's garbage
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2017, 08:59:39 AM »

Offline mgent

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LOL @ "cut Nader" being the bench solution.  He never plays.

The first solution was to move Morris to the bench and start Baynes.  That worked.  But now he is hurt and could be out a while so they do need to rethink things.

I would ask brad simply to limit the Rozier + Smart lineups.  Try to make sure that those two always have two of the Kyrie+Al+Tatum+Brown group with them.  Stagger the minutes better.  Use Theis more to relieve Al early.

I've been asking to just eliminate Rozier from the rotation since last year.  He and Smart can't play together, and Smart should always have the ball in his hands with the 2nd unit anyway.

Kyrie 32 / Smart 16
Brown 32 / Smart 16
Tatum 32 / Semi 16
Horford 10 / Morris 26 / Theis 12
Baynes 26 / Horford 22

Keep Smart with Kyrie, Brown, and Tatum.  Keep him away from Rozier.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2017, 10:38:58 AM »

Offline ederson

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I know that BR is not very popular here :D but they rank the celtic bench as 6th best

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2017, 01:05:16 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba

I know that BR is not very popular here :D but they rank the celtic bench as 6th best

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
Already brought up and shown to be about defense and not overall play. I think everyone acknowledges we have a great defensive bench but the problem is they are really poor at putting the ball through the hoop.

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2017, 01:36:27 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba

I know that BR is not very popular here :D but they rank the celtic bench as 6th best

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
Already brought up and shown to be about defense and not overall play. I think everyone acknowledges we have a great defensive bench but the problem is they are really poor at putting the ball through the hoop.

No it's not.  It's based on net rating.

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2017, 01:42:23 PM »

Offline jay

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Instead of Will Barton, why not use the DPE on Tyreke Evans? The Grizzlies would probably want a draft pick for him, but they aren't going anywhere this year. A little different situation from Barton.

For rebounding, what about Nader and a 2nd for Montrezl Harrell? He's been playing well and the CLips are 10-15.


Move Smart to the 1st unit.

Kyrie   Rozier
Smart  Evans
Brown  Morris
Tatum  Harrell
Horford  Theis/Baynes


I know we don't really want to give up draft picks for a couple of rentals but the team is doing well enough, they deserve a shot at going deep in the playoffs. 


Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2017, 01:49:59 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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I think the elephant in the room is capitalizing on the DPE. To me, the ideal trade partner would be Dallas for BOTH of Dirk and Nerlens Noel. As much as Cuban might resist at first, his business mind will supercede, and realize that with these players, Dallas is still a bottom feeder.

The Celtics can offer something like one of Marcus Morris/Rozier/Smart, plus a combination of Boston 1st round picks (end of the draft) and 2nd rounders

Ideally the player we see go is Morris, who is hurt. It allows Dallas to truly tank, and get assets for a guy like Dirk, who likely wants to play for a title, Noel who would be very useful as a PF/C in any of Brads lineups. Beefs up our frontcourt and our overall bench depth, but also gives Brad a varoety of starting front court options. Dirk comes off the bench in the regular season and then starts come playoff time for one final sprint for a title.

Dirk can then do the Paul Pierce thing, and sign a one day deal with the Mavs to retire in Dallas.

If Noel pans out, we can work a long-term deal. Either way, his value increases substantially getting meaningful minutes for a playoff team.

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2017, 02:00:51 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Cuban isn't going to want to pay Smart, and a big that can't stretch the floor is good for 15 mpg in Brad's system.  I've always liked the thought of Noel with our rebounding woes and lack of rim protection.  But I've watched enough Shark Tank this week to know that that ain't gonna happen, sdcelts.  TP for the idea, though.
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Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2017, 02:03:32 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Dirk is a Dallas legend.  Cuban isn't trading him for a late 1st and a Boston spare part.  He wants to see Dirk play out his career in Dallas.

I'd much rather go after "One Punch-man" Portis from Chicago who is 'listening' to offers.

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2017, 02:07:00 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Dirk is a Dallas legend.  Cuban isn't trading him for a late 1st and a Boston spare part.  He wants to see Dirk play out his career in Dallas.

I'd much rather go after "One Punch-man" Portis from Chicago who is 'listening' to offers.

Same, I've always liked Portis.  Everyone continues to think he'll regress to the mean, but he continues to improve.  He was also just quoted as saying he prefers the 6th man role.
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Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2017, 03:32:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
No it's not.  It's based on net rating.

Yet Offensively, as I posted above our bench is :

30th in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1

Even using the pages you post one can see that we do not have the  best  bench offensive team,

28th in PACE
30th in TS%
17th in Offrtg.
25th in EFG

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StarterBench=Bench&DateTo=12%2F10%2F2017

Hard to say that we don't have offensive issues off our bench.   Not to mention the eye test that most here can discern that at times our bench struggles to score.   There is a reason that CBS has started to leave a starter in with the bench recently  and its not because they are offensively talented.   It is to help that talent.

We do have some bench guys who play hard and defend well.   They rebound well.   But to pretend that they are offensive studs is very amusing.


Quote
To me, the ideal trade partner would be Dallas for BOTH of Dirk and Nerlens Noel

Say hello to the Easter Bunny while you're in dream land.   Dirk is going to retire there most likely.  They have no reason to trade with us especially given how they got burnt in the Rondo deal.   

I think Mirotic and Portis are more attainable.   I tought we should have got Okafor, he was cheap and can score.   His D is bad but CBS has a way to make guys play D who normally do not.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 03:40:59 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2017, 04:36:50 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Instead of Will Barton, why not use the DPE on Tyreke Evans? The Grizzlies would probably want a draft pick for him, but they aren't going anywhere this year. A little different situation from Barton.

This feels like the best option that's realistically gettable. Memphis being what it is, both as a market and as a current team, they might let him go for little more than taking on his salary.

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2017, 04:48:25 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Quote
No it's not.  It's based on net rating.

Yet Offensively, as I posted above our bench is :

30th in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1

Even using the pages you post one can see that we do not have the  best  bench offensive team,

28th in PACE
30th in TS%
17th in Offrtg.
25th in EFG

http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StarterBench=Bench&DateTo=12%2F10%2F2017

Hard to say that we don't have offensive issues off our bench.   Not to mention the eye test that most here can discern that at times our bench struggles to score.   There is a reason that CBS has started to leave a starter in with the bench recently  and its not because they are offensively talented.   It is to help that talent.

We do have some bench guys who play hard and defend well.   They rebound well.   But to pretend that they are offensive studs is very amusing.


The point is that by Net rating (Offensive-Defensive) we're sixth overall.  That's mainly because we're first defensively, and average (17th as you point out) offensively.  So really we have an above average bench.  Obviously if we can improve offensively without hurting the defense, we'd be better, and I'm all for improving.  But just improving the offense at the expense of the defense is a waste of assets.

If you look closer at that list you'll see we're well behind Golden State and Houston in Net Rating, so if we really want to contend I'd agree we need to improve the bench.  Tyreke Evans would be my target.

Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2017, 05:15:33 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I am not here to defend Nader, but he is a rookie.

Wasn't he a rookie last year.     

Quote
2016, Boston Celtics
Round: 2 / Pick: 58

 The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all.   I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there.   But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence.   NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses.   That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles.  It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.

Nader was not on the 15 man roster last year, he signed a D-league deal and played for like $40K.  He is a rookie, just like Ben Simmons is.

There are probably 3 or 4 guys on the bench who are rookies who take up a spot that would better be served by vets.  But those vets are arguably more worthless as they will play just as big a role ( basically none) but have negative upside, whereas at least with guys like Nader you can see if they get better over time.

Again, not defending him, but he should get more than a couple game appearances before he no longer plays.


Re: The bench needs to be revamped. Suggestions?
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2017, 05:24:40 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Instead of Will Barton, why not use the DPE on Tyreke Evans? The Grizzlies would probably want a draft pick for him, but they aren't going anywhere this year. A little different situation from Barton.

For rebounding, what about Nader and a 2nd for Montrezl Harrell? He's been playing well and the CLips are 10-15.


Move Smart to the 1st unit.

Kyrie   Rozier
Smart  Evans
Brown  Morris
Tatum  Harrell
Horford  Theis/Baynes


I know we don't really want to give up draft picks for a couple of rentals but the team is doing well enough, they deserve a shot at going deep in the playoffs.
Evans is basically averaging 18/5/4, do you think they'd give him up for little? I love Tyreke, so I'd be ecstatic, but it just doesn't seem likely.

Harrell is another guy I'm a big fan of
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)