Poll

Is Kyrie Irving A Legitimate, Bonafide Superstar In The NBA (In Your Books/Definition)?

Yes, Kyrie Irving Is A Legitimate (Bonafide) Superstar In This League
79 (74.5%)
No, I View Kyrie As A Legit All-Star, But A Fringe Superstar At Best Currently
27 (25.5%)

Total Members Voted: 106

Author Topic: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?  (Read 10032 times)

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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #225 on: December 08, 2017, 12:24:18 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The basis of it -- he thrived off creating contact.  He was a strong and physical, which would've allowed him to succeed in the grit and grind days. 

And there's no way he found himself in the cushiest positions.  Yes, he was given a great opp in Boston.  But He carried a middle of the road team deep into the playpoffs - I'd consider that the oppsite.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
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"You see how organizations treat players. Isaiah took his team to the ECF, and they traded him. It makes you wonder: Does this organization really have my back?"
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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #226 on: December 08, 2017, 12:27:45 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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The basis of it -- he thrived off creating contact.  He was a strong and physical, which would've allowed him to succeed in the grit and grind days.

I completely and utterly disagree. Kyrie has, at minimum, top 5 all time ball handling skills. That would get him by in any era.

Again, I can't disagree enough with the idea IT could have survived in the "grit and grind" days, but Kyrie couldn't statement.

In any era, Kyrie is better than IT, and it is not a slight against him.

Boston is cushy, Cleveland is cushy. That is two cushy teams, btw.

This is enough though. I think you angle is clear, and we won't do anything but clutter up the board if we continue.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #227 on: December 08, 2017, 03:25:38 AM »

Offline Androslav

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This ongoing thread, what is Kyrie actually is, is becoming funny ATP.

3/4 of the votes here say he is a superstar.
All coaches in the NBA, by their quotes, consider him a superstar.
Our father and holy ghost (DA & CBS) know he is a superstar.

on the other hand:

1/4 of the votes here, steadily trending down, say he is not as good.
Actually, just a few guys respond from this corner, without providing any good argument why.
Just some generalities or something from the past, that doesn't stand anymore.

Seems to me like we are having a non-convo. Just a few people that are angry (IT/?) or don't realize that it is OK to be wrong sometimes. Newsflash, I am too, we all are. IMO, it is much worse to not being able to change your mind and learn on the go. Afterall we are humans, the animals that can adapt quickly.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #228 on: December 08, 2017, 03:40:35 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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This ongoing thread, what is Kyrie actually is, is becoming funny ATP.

3/4 of the votes here say he is a superstar.
All coaches in the NBA, by their quotes, consider him a superstar.
Our father and holy ghost (DA & CBS) know he is a superstar.

on the other hand:

1/4 of the votes here, steadily trending down, say he is not as good.
Actually, just a few guys respond from this corner, without providing any good argument why.
Just some generalities or something from the past, that doesn't stand anymore.

Seems to me like we are having a non-convo. Just a few people that are angry (IT/?) or don't realize that it is OK to be wrong sometimes. Newsflash, I am too, we all are. IMO, it is much worse to not being able to change your mind and learn on the go. Afterall we are humans, the animals that can adapt quickly.

Your post is very misinformed, and your perspective is very lazy.  It's clear you've read none of the posts that served as thoughtful counter-arguments and convo about the definition of the term.

Please share exactly where I have been "wrong."  Everyone seems to want to provide the most popular hot-takes without any support or discussion.  Please read the posts you are arguing before your "lol"s if you intend to discuss with an open mind.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

"You see how organizations treat players. Isaiah took his team to the ECF, and they traded him. It makes you wonder: Does this organization really have my back?"
-Anthony Davis

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #229 on: December 08, 2017, 05:12:10 AM »

Offline Androslav

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This ongoing thread, what is Kyrie actually is, is becoming funny ATP.

3/4 of the votes here say he is a superstar.
All coaches in the NBA, by their quotes, consider him a superstar.
Our father and holy ghost (DA & CBS) know he is a superstar.

on the other hand:

1/4 of the votes here, steadily trending down, say he is not as good.
Actually, just a few guys respond from this corner, without providing any good argument why.
Just some generalities or something from the past, that doesn't stand anymore.

Seems to me like we are having a non-convo. Just a few people that are angry (IT/?) or don't realize that it is OK to be wrong sometimes. Newsflash, I am too, we all are. IMO, it is much worse to not being able to change your mind and learn on the go. Afterall we are humans, the animals that can adapt quickly.

Your post is very misinformed, and your perspective is very lazy.  It's clear you've read none of the posts that served as thoughtful counter-arguments and convo about the definition of the term.

Please share exactly where I have been "wrong."  Everyone seems to want to provide the most popular hot-takes without any support or discussion.  Please read the posts you are arguing before your "lol"s if you intend to discuss with an open mind.
First of all, I am sorry you broke your leg.

I don't have the urge to go into some long-winded arguments to make a point. My perspective is different from yours, and that difference isn't laziness, it is my stance on the anti-Kyrie argumentation, which I find shallow and emotional.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #230 on: December 08, 2017, 07:41:47 AM »

Offline Granath

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This ongoing thread, what is Kyrie actually is, is becoming funny ATP.

3/4 of the votes here say he is a superstar.
All coaches in the NBA, by their quotes, consider him a superstar.
Our father and holy ghost (DA & CBS) know he is a superstar.

on the other hand:

1/4 of the votes here, steadily trending down, say he is not as good.
Actually, just a few guys respond from this corner, without providing any good argument why.
Just some generalities or something from the past, that doesn't stand anymore.

Seems to me like we are having a non-convo. Just a few people that are angry (IT/?) or don't realize that it is OK to be wrong sometimes. Newsflash, I am too, we all are. IMO, it is much worse to not being able to change your mind and learn on the go. Afterall we are humans, the animals that can adapt quickly.

Your post is very misinformed, and your perspective is very lazy.  It's clear you've read none of the posts that served as thoughtful counter-arguments and convo about the definition of the term.

Please share exactly where I have been "wrong."  Everyone seems to want to provide the most popular hot-takes without any support or discussion.  Please read the posts you are arguing before your "lol"s if you intend to discuss with an open mind.
First of all, I am sorry you broke your leg.

I don't have the urge to go into some long-winded arguments to make a point. My perspective is different from yours, and that difference isn't laziness, it is my stance on the anti-Kyrie argumentation, which I find shallow and emotional.

You're the one being shallow and emotional. After all, you accused others of being "angry", tried to paint those who don't agree with you as providing only "generalities" (which is exactly the nature of your own argument) and then cowardly said that you weren't going to back up your own assertions. It appears that you can't tolerate different perspectives at all.

There's plenty of good conversation in this thread. It's just not being generated from any of your posts.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #231 on: December 08, 2017, 09:05:56 AM »

Offline Androslav

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This ongoing thread, what is Kyrie actually is, is becoming funny ATP.

3/4 of the votes here say he is a superstar.
All coaches in the NBA, by their quotes, consider him a superstar.
Our father and holy ghost (DA & CBS) know he is a superstar.

on the other hand:

1/4 of the votes here, steadily trending down, say he is not as good.
Actually, just a few guys respond from this corner, without providing any good argument why.
Just some generalities or something from the past, that doesn't stand anymore.

Seems to me like we are having a non-convo. Just a few people that are angry (IT/?) or don't realize that it is OK to be wrong sometimes. Newsflash, I am too, we all are. IMO, it is much worse to not being able to change your mind and learn on the go. Afterall we are humans, the animals that can adapt quickly.

Your post is very misinformed, and your perspective is very lazy.  It's clear you've read none of the posts that served as thoughtful counter-arguments and convo about the definition of the term.

Please share exactly where I have been "wrong."  Everyone seems to want to provide the most popular hot-takes without any support or discussion.  Please read the posts you are arguing before your "lol"s if you intend to discuss with an open mind.
First of all, I am sorry you broke your leg.

I don't have the urge to go into some long-winded arguments to make a point. My perspective is different from yours, and that difference isn't laziness, it is my stance on the anti-Kyrie argumentation, which I find shallow and emotional.

You're the one being shallow and emotional. After all, you accused others of being "angry", tried to paint those who don't agree with you as providing only "generalities" (which is exactly the nature of your own argument) and then cowardly said that you weren't going to back up your own assertions. It appears that you can't tolerate different perspectives at all.

There's plenty of good conversation in this thread. It's just not being generated from any of your posts.

It is not a generality to say 3/4 of the voters have viewed him as a Superstar - it is a fact, scroll up, see? Good.
It is not a generality that most coaches (players like KD too) say he is unguardable and amazing - it is a fact. Here are some quotes made within last month, I read 100s of similar in the last 3-4 years.

Rick Carlisle: “Kyrie Irving is as tough a cover as there is in the world. … Kyrie, in terms of creativity, is second to none.”
“I tell people all the time. If he’s not the hardest guy to guard he’s got to be in the top three. He’s phenomenal.” – #Warriors assistant coach Mike Brown
Pop says it’s the same Kyrie: “He’s a hell of a player. You think that’s going to change? Kyrie does what he does.

And it is not a generality that DA and CBS view him as such due to a whole string of superlatives they made when describing him (if you need links ill send it to you, but I presume that all Celtic fans saw these since it was a big thing). As a proof that DAs words are not empty, they are backed up by a mega-deal that included an all-star, a certain certainly unprotected lottery pick, a starter on most teams and basically a late 1st and another 2nd, going the other way just for him - those are the facts.
3/3

I am not a native English language speaker, but I know what the word fact means.

And Granath, I have felt this sometime now. You attack straightforward, going all in without "finesse or plan". You just try to make it personal, and I guess you want me to get to "play your game". Sorry man, I'm not joining in. I've got nothing but love and facts for you.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:24:01 AM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #232 on: December 08, 2017, 01:28:46 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Regardless of how Kyrie has played in the past as a whole, both regular season and playoffs, isn't it fairly clear that his all around game is superstar worthy this yeah? I think so.

Sure, if your choose to treat the term very broadly.  But then you're siluting it to include guys that are severely limited in several aspects of the game.  Lillard then qualifies as a superstar too.  But I dont see Lillard as that -- I consider a superstar someine that can carry a medicore team deep into the playoffs by himself.  I dont think KI can, nor is there any evidence to suggest it -- in fact, just the opposite, nick.  He's admittedly an incredibly player, better than I thought too.  But I prefer to save that title for the very few elite.  Heck, I'd say AD is even on the cusp, and Giannis is still budding... but just about there.
Its a term without set definitions or guidelines. To each their own. Last year I thought IT played like a superstar and got the national recognition he deserved for playing that way. This year I think Kyrie is playing like a superstar and getting the national attention a superstar should get. I definitely Kyrie has risen his game a level, especially defensively, to now be considered a superstar and I think he will show it in the playoffs as he has the last two years when he was amazing in the post season.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #233 on: December 08, 2017, 10:02:35 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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This ongoing thread, what is Kyrie actually is, is becoming funny ATP.

3/4 of the votes here say he is a superstar.
All coaches in the NBA, by their quotes, consider him a superstar.
Our father and holy ghost (DA & CBS) know he is a superstar.

on the other hand:

1/4 of the votes here, steadily trending down, say he is not as good.
Actually, just a few guys respond from this corner, without providing any good argument why.
Just some generalities or something from the past, that doesn't stand anymore.

Seems to me like we are having a non-convo. Just a few people that are angry (IT/?) or don't realize that it is OK to be wrong sometimes. Newsflash, I am too, we all are. IMO, it is much worse to not being able to change your mind and learn on the go. Afterall we are humans, the animals that can adapt quickly.

Idk man. I'm actually enjoying the debates on here  :laugh:

My Lakers friend (the "debating with friend" friend on thread title) is also enjoying reading these comments lol

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #234 on: December 09, 2017, 08:46:35 AM »

Offline cman88

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after the last couple of games, Kyrie is now up to

24ppg and 4.8APG on 49.6% shooting from the field and 38.8% shooting from 3. in 32mpg

thats some crazy efficiency. in the last 10games he is averaging 28.9 ppg on 56% shooting.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 10:45:49 AM by Roy H. »

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #235 on: December 09, 2017, 10:51:19 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Itís too bad the meathead element that sees things as all or nothing had to derail a pretty good thread. Fair warning: those who canít engage in nuanced debate or discussion without labels / attacks should find a new place to discuss the Celts.

Locked.


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