Author Topic: Semi Ojeleye Catch All Thread  (Read 15719 times)

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Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #120 on: December 21, 2017, 07:07:04 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Some may say he has elite defense, elite athleticism, and is a good shooter, but it's hard to say that with a straight face until those things actually show up on the court.

Actually anyone with the ability to use google and find out about his athletic ability.

2017 Combine results

Semi Ojeleye   40.50 MAX VERTICAL LEAP        5th at combine
Semi Ojeleye   35.00 STANDING VERTICAL LEAP   3rd at combine
Semi Ojeleye   10.5 LANE AGILITY   3rd at combine     

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine/

So it can be said that he has decent run and jump athletic ability because it has been empirically measured regardless of your so-called eye test.  Note they did not do the bench press or make it public this year but it is a reasonable expectation given his frame and musculature that he would have done well at that.

As for his offense, being a trainwreck, a lot of the bench's offense is sketchy.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #121 on: December 21, 2017, 07:36:43 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Some may say he has elite defense, elite athleticism, and is a good shooter, but it's hard to say that with a straight face until those things actually show up on the court.

Actually anyone with the ability to use google and find out about his athletic ability.

2017 Combine results

Semi Ojeleye   40.50 MAX VERTICAL LEAP        5th at combine
Semi Ojeleye   35.00 STANDING VERTICAL LEAP   3rd at combine
Semi Ojeleye   10.5 LANE AGILITY   3rd at combine     

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine/

So it can be said that he has decent run and jump athletic ability because it has been empirically measured regardless of your so-called eye test.  Note they did not do the bench press or make it public this year but it is a reasonable expectation given his frame and musculature that he would have done well at that.

As for his offense, being a trainwreck, a lot of the bench's offense is sketchy.

The combine is fascinating, so clearly based on those numbers he is more athletic then Collins, who posted a 37 inch vert. So why is that I see Collins' athleticism translate to film, while Semi's doesn't?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5baANqByW0o

Sometimes players, like Semi, train specifically for the combine which gives them numbers that exceed their on-court physical ability. That's why you have Semi outdoing the combine verticals of DeAndre Jordan (30.5), Westbrook (36.5), Blake Griffin (35.5), but what does logic tell you? I mean Sullinger even posted a higher vertical (31) than DeAndre.   



Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2017, 08:21:12 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The combine is fascinating, so clearly based on those numbers he is more athletic then Collins, who posted a 37 inch vert. So why is that I see Collins' athleticism translate to film, while Semi's doesn't?

Agree

Quote
Sometimes players, like Semi, train specifically for the combine which gives them numbers that exceed their on-court physical ability. That's why you have Semi outdoing the combine verticals of DeAndre Jordan (30.5), Westbrook (36.5), Blake Griffin (35.5), but what does logic tell you? I mean Sullinger even posted a higher vertical (31) than DeAndre.

True, but you can take a look at the guy and see he is athletic.  The trouble is that he does not use it or is afraid to use it in games.   I think a lot of his problem is confidence or lack thereof.

One can see some of this potential in this tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZJGpGtPdM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_MXyYJu0I

Whether it ever translates is another matter.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #123 on: December 21, 2017, 09:47:16 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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It is amazing to me that Semi is such a divisive feature of the team. Who writes a guy off as trash that's a 2nd rounder playing 15 minutes per game as a rookie being praised for elite defense?

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #124 on: December 21, 2017, 10:13:49 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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It is amazing to me that Semi is such a divisive feature of the team. Who writes a guy off as trash that's a 2nd rounder playing 15 minutes per game as a rookie being praised for elite defense?

That's the effect, but you're missing the cause. And that cause can be attributed to a certain poster creating thread after thread heralding Semi. One thread even suggesting that he would "eclipse" Crowder this season. Another claiming he can cover LeBron. If it wasn't for that, I would just think of Semi as another scrub player playing due to injuries. It's the constant unwarranted hype that's attracted all the negativie attention to his awful play.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2017, 10:48:44 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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It's the constant unwarranted hype that's attracted all the negativie attention to his awful play.

...okay, but he's a rookie. He's already defending better than a lot of vets. He's got a lot of faith from the front office. He's going through a learning curve right now but I think calling him a scrub is hardly warranted. Seems like a gross overreaction the C's recent play.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #126 on: December 21, 2017, 10:51:42 AM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I'm not hating on Semi, or hoping he fails. I want him to succeed and help the Celtics. I'm just not as high on him as you are. I'm not particularly interested in combine results or college stats anymore, those are useful when you are attempting to guess how a draft prospect might work out, but now that he is in the NBA I don't think those things are relevant anymore.

Your point about combine/college (and I would even add Summer League) has something, but they're not irrelevant. What a guy can do is not only a function of his competition - it's also a function of his skills, and those are visible in his previous work.

So far his defense has been okay, not elite, not great, okay. 

Brad Stevens was the one who said "elite". There's something that many fans don't seem to get yet: They're using him as a stopper, putting him on some of the toughest covers in the NBA.

His offensive has been horrible, not just bad shooting, but poor passing, no handle, and not in the flow of the offense.

"poor passing" - I can't tell where you might have gotten this. His turnovers are very low (10.1%, as a rookie!) and in particular he's had a grand total of three bad pass turnovers for the entire season, in 455 minutes of play.  Perhaps you've seen him make a mistake passing, but you're better off doing the hard work of looking at a lot of minutes, not just go on an impression.  You have to rewind!

"no handle" - the short answer reaction is 'how the hell could you even know?' - since mostly his job is to spot up and shoot if he's open, rotate the ball if he's not. But there have been some intriguing moments where he shows some really skillful stuff: the baseline drives right under the backboard in the Lakers game where he gets the ball up high on the reverse - an unblockable shot; or the open-floor drive in the Phoenix game where he switches hands and eurosteps for a layup. 

My favorite so far has no razzle at all, but it's the stuff coaches love: Thaddeus Young closing out on him at the arc, he upfakes, fakes the drive left to get his man off balance, and then takes a couple of dribbles right to beat him. Sabonis rotates to take away the baseline, leaving Theis open at the elbow. Semi delivers the simple pass and Theis knocks it down. That's at 5:12 of the fourth in the Indiana game (notice that he's in the game at crunch time there), if you want to look it up.

"not in the flow of the offense" - that's not what I see, at all. He doesn't force anything, shoots when he's open, doesn't freelance. Here's a couple of telling stats: his usage rate is an absurdly low 9.6%.  That's the lowest on the team.  His 3-pt attempt rate is .790, which is the highest on the team (unless you count Kadeem Allen), and an absurdly high number, almost all spot-ups. 17 twos. Those stats tell you that he is doing almost nothing at all outside of the flow of the offense. I hope that I am not impolite, but I find your assertion baffling, and the opposite of the obvious reality.

As of right now, I think his most likely ceiling is useful defensive specialist off the bench.

That's what he is now, already. But even saying that underestimates his role. They're using him as a stopper, putting him on some of the toughest covers in the NBA.

Are you predicting that he's already reached his ceiling? That's not likely.

He's not going to take mpg from Hayward, Brown, Tatum or even Morris. As of right now I would put him 10th on the depth chart (Irving, Horford, Tatum, Brown, Smart, Morris, Baynes, Rozier, Theis, Semi), when Hayward comes back he will be 11th.

He's ninth in minutes right now, in front of Theis, so your math is likely off by at least one slot.

The return of Morris did not affect his minutes, though the re-exit of Morris seems to have increased them.  It's a fluid situation, it's a long season, ups and downs are inevitable.  Would he have gotten floor time if Hayward hadn't been injured, and Morris were healthy? I'd bet not.  But now he's earned floor time going forward. Brad's remark that he was "kicking himself" for not putting him on Devin Booker sooner is telling: this guy has a future.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 04:55:56 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #127 on: December 21, 2017, 11:03:43 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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I posted that he could be used to wear Lebron down or for some hard fouls that is a far cry from a primary defender-it is you who take those leaps ,you change could eclipse Crowder to would and with this years time frame which was not my words or worse totally misconstrued intentionally
-You fancy yourself as some board pessimist vigilante that demeans Brads quotes or other players that compliment semis defense.You are just waiting to jump on the tiniest crevice to bludgeon Semi or myself-you have stated "he sucks"no hustle ,not athletic-and negate anything positive

You interpreted a post thinking Jerebkos three point shooting could improve with him buying a mansion with indoor court and weight room-SO he could train all the time-YOU turned it into a neighbor built an outside court next door-
You attack any posts that are positive
-i use Brads quotes ,Horfords,Drew Hanlons  Larry Brown
Now you try and discredit his combine results because he trained for the combine and team tryouts SO DID EVERYBODY except Fultz-Semi was known to be a big leaper in space and off two feet  but his wingspan and standing reach are just average which effects his dunking in traffic but he has a quick 2nd bounce
You got some sort of fixation to the negative.I even started a separate post to lose you-but as you said "YOU WOULD CALL ME OUT"-vigilante,stalker  whatever you fancy yourself to be-moderator this guy has a problem
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 12:34:23 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #128 on: December 21, 2017, 11:04:52 AM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Stevens is giving Semi "defensive minutes" quite a few of them.

Semi is a rookie. His play at both ends is tentative. He takes a shot here and there, but shows little desire to make a play. He slashed to the rim the other night for the first time since I don't know when.

An occasional corner three attempt doesn't offer anyone an opportunity to evaluate this rookie. I think he's solid on defense, but Stevens thinks he's better than solid. He will put him on James, the Freak and other top forwards probably to show the confidence he has in the player.

Stevens is working with a lot of youth this year. I think that Semi might develop into a really good 6th or 7th best player on a good team. I also think that he might not. Year after next the contract will decide what the Celtics really think of Semi and doing little on offense on a team that is begging for baskets won't help him.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2017, 07:31:33 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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I wonder what Beasley thinks about Semi's elite defense. So this is the guy some have suggested we throw on James during the playoffs? Yeah, that'll go amazingly well.

One thing that I have noticed is that he doesn't seem to adjust to the offensive player and always plays off the opponent at the sane distance on the perimeter. Last night he was switched on to Lee and gave him way too much space. Following a jab-step, Lee calmly drilled a basket on Semi.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #130 on: December 22, 2017, 10:47:02 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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This is from C's blog and the numbers don't reflect the last 2 contests, which would bring the majority of those numbers down.

Quote
Boston is allowing 6.1 more points per 100 possessions when Ojeleye is on the floor.

Opponents are actually shooting 2.0 percent better than expected on shots that Ojeleye contests.

Ojeleye is averaging just 0.5 deflections, 0.3 steals, and 0.0 blocks per game. Such statistics arenít perfect measurements, but they do tend to reflect a certain level of activity, particularly as a help defender.

What is of greater concern are Ojeleyeís offensive struggles. Heís shot the ball poorly, posting meager .325/.286/.632 splits. Bostonís offense has cratered in his minutes, scoring 98.6 points per 100 possessions, a full 12.8 points worse than when Ojeleye is on the bench.

The Celtics have a net rating of -8.4 points when he plays, 18.9 points worse than when he sits. It begs the dual questions of just how much time on the court Ojeleye should see, and what the teamís expectations should be for him when he plays?


Ironic how these are many of the points I've been harping upon for months and what I saw, and continue to observe, is being supported by data.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #131 on: December 22, 2017, 12:35:54 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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I wonder what Beasley thinks about Semi's elite defense. So this is the guy some have suggested we throw on James during the playoffs? Yeah, that'll go amazingly well.

One thing that I have noticed is that he doesn't seem to adjust to the offensive player and always plays off the opponent at the sane distance on the perimeter. Last night he was switched on to Lee and gave him way too much space. Following a jab-step, Lee calmly drilled a basket on Semi.

The best that Courtney Lee could have been shooting at that time was a calm 1--8 or he could have been calmly  0-7.
 He shot 2-9- for the game looks like a high percentage move as he was shooting poorly .

Beasley is a streaky volume scorer that got hot 2nd half-that was his second big game as he has played well while Porzingis was out.Nobody was stopping Beasley MVP last night
Put on Lebron to wear him down or some hard fouls.Obviously the primary job will be Marcus Morris Jaylen and Semi
.And thrown at seems appropriate.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 01:03:41 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #132 on: January 19, 2018, 07:33:59 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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As Semi's minutes continue to diminish it's pretty clear that Stevens has lost faith in him. At this point, the best thing for him is to go down to the G-League and try to build some confidence against inferior competition. However, the problem is at the moment we have two other guys (Nader and Yabu) who aren't good enough for rotational minutes either. This is a big issue as we pretty much only have 10 players that Stevens trusts. Which is why any player missing becomes crippling and why we need to add quality roster depth with the extra roster spot and the DPE slot.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #133 on: January 19, 2018, 08:02:25 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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As Semi's minutes continue to diminish it's pretty clear that Stevens has lost faith in him. At this point, the best thing for him is to go down to the G-League and try to build some confidence against inferior competition. However, the problem is at the moment we have two other guys (Nader and Yabu) who aren't good enough for rotational minutes either. This is a big issue as we pretty much only have 10 players that Stevens trusts. Which is why any player missing becomes crippling and why we need to add quality roster depth with the extra roster spot and the DPE slot.
I don't get it.  He plays 3 minutes against Philly in spite of the fact that Brad calls him the best 1 to 5 defender on the team.  Is Brad being coy?  Trying not to discourage the kid?

Still, definitely agree they can't afford to send him down to the G-league.

Re: Semi starting to wake up or heat up
« Reply #134 on: January 19, 2018, 08:02:54 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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duplicate post, sorry