Author Topic: Marcus Smart please keep shooting!  (Read 4481 times)

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Re: Brad Stevens Please Start Smart!
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2017, 01:48:51 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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                                  FGM     FGA     FG%     3PM     3PA     3P%     minutes     +/-
Smart with Horford        37       86      43.0       17       39      43.6        350      +155
on floor

Smart w/out Horford      26      116     22.4       11       58      19.0        265        +1

per 36 with Horford       3.8      8.8      43.0      1.7      4.0      43.6

per 36 w/out Horford     3.5     15.8     22.4      1.5      7.9      19.0

Above is Smart's shooting with and without Horford on the floor.  Smart's shot volume almost doubles when Horford is not on the floor and his shooting % is cut in half.  When Marcus is on the floor as a 4th or 5th option he has been very successful.  When he is stuck with the bench units that are devoid of quality offensive options and have much poorer spacing he has displayed some dreadful shooting.

Great find, good thinking, and your theory is plausible. TP.

There's been a debate in several threads over Baynes versus Morris as the fifth starter. Smart has not been included as a third option in those discussions, but in fact the three most used lineups, by far, have been:

Irving/Brown/Tatum/Horford, plus one of...

Morris, Baynes, or Smart.

And, in fact, those three lineups have been on the floor together an almost identical amount of time.

1. With Morris (84.4 minutes): Offense 1.06 points per possession; Defense 1.20 ppp
2. With Smart (82.5 minutes): Offense 1.16 ppp; Defense 1.02 ppp
3. With Baynes (79.7 minutes): Offense 1.03 ppp; Defense .92 ppp

There are a lot of moving parts here, including Morris' recovery (he still had a minutes restriction as of last week, iirc), widely different matchups, etc. And the sample size is small enough even at the end of the season...

So, with a grain of salt,

the net of the Morris lineup is  -.14
the net of the Smart lineup is   .14
the net of the Baynes lineup is  .11

[The next most used lineup, fwiw, is Irving/Smart/Brown/Ojeleye/Horford (27.0 minutes): Offense 1.27 ppp; Defense 0.93, for a net .34 points per possession]

The numbers may seem tiny and the differences minuscule, but remember that we're talking about 100 possessions in a game, typically (actually Boston has been playing at a relatively slow 98.5 per game), so the difference between the Smart lineup and the Baynes lineup approaches 3 points per game - that translates to a big difference in wins over the course of a season.

There's an argument here for Smart starting instead of either Baynes or Morris. But maybe Brad Stevens is heeding the old NBA wisdom of Red Auerbach: "It's not who starts, but who finishes."

I disagree with this conclusion, since there's such a big difference in absolute ratings. Relatively I think the net values are approximately equal. Because with a higher score there's also more absolute (and probably relative) variance.

Say as a team every game you score between 104 and 128 points, your opponent scores between 92 and 112 points (based on the ratings of the line-up '2' with Smart and a 20% interval). To simplify math we assume there's an even distribution of possible outcomes among that interval, which leads to a 92,3% chance of winning.

We do the same for line-up '3' with Baynes. Our outcome between 93 and 113 (20% interval) and for our opponents a score between 83 and 101. Now we've got a 89,8% chance of winning.

If we had to choose between the line-ups over a whole season for 82 games that is an exact difference of 2 won games (Baynes' goes 74-8 and Smart's 76-6). Not that big a difference. Although if you see it from another standpoint, it's a relative huge increase of losses from 6 to 8 games. Of course it's all nonsense since you can't play every minute of every game with the same 5 players and obviously then in a vacuum the direct effect of the choice between Smart and Baynes becomes marginal.

Re: Brad Stevens Please Start Smart!
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2017, 03:09:25 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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                                  FGM     FGA     FG%     3PM     3PA     3P%     minutes     +/-
Smart with Horford        37       86      43.0       17       39      43.6        350      +155
on floor

Smart w/out Horford      26      116     22.4       11       58      19.0        265        +1

per 36 with Horford       3.8      8.8      43.0      1.7      4.0      43.6

per 36 w/out Horford     3.5     15.8     22.4      1.5      7.9      19.0

Above is Smart's shooting with and without Horford on the floor.  Smart's shot volume almost doubles when Horford is not on the floor and his shooting % is cut in half.  When Marcus is on the floor as a 4th or 5th option he has been very successful.  When he is stuck with the bench units that are devoid of quality offensive options and have much poorer spacing he has displayed some dreadful shooting.

Great find, good thinking, and your theory is plausible. TP.

There's been a debate in several threads over Baynes versus Morris as the fifth starter. Smart has not been included as a third option in those discussions, but in fact the three most used lineups, by far, have been:

Irving/Brown/Tatum/Horford, plus one of...

Morris, Baynes, or Smart.

And, in fact, those three lineups have been on the floor together an almost identical amount of time.

1. With Morris (84.4 minutes): Offense 1.06 points per possession; Defense 1.20 ppp
2. With Smart (82.5 minutes): Offense 1.16 ppp; Defense 1.02 ppp
3. With Baynes (79.7 minutes): Offense 1.03 ppp; Defense .92 ppp

There are a lot of moving parts here, including Morris' recovery (he still had a minutes restriction as of last week, iirc), widely different matchups, etc. And the sample size is small enough even at the end of the season...

So, with a grain of salt,

the net of the Morris lineup is  -.14
the net of the Smart lineup is   .14
the net of the Baynes lineup is  .11

[The next most used lineup, fwiw, is Irving/Smart/Brown/Ojeleye/Horford (27.0 minutes): Offense 1.27 ppp; Defense 0.93, for a net .34 points per possession]

The numbers may seem tiny and the differences minuscule, but remember that we're talking about 100 possessions in a game, typically (actually Boston has been playing at a relatively slow 98.5 per game), so the difference between the Smart lineup and the Baynes lineup approaches 3 points per game - that translates to a big difference in wins over the course of a season.

There's an argument here for Smart starting instead of either Baynes or Morris. But maybe Brad Stevens is heeding the old NBA wisdom of Red Auerbach: "It's not who starts, but who finishes."

I disagree with this conclusion, since there's such a big difference in absolute ratings. Relatively I think the net values are approximately equal. Because with a higher score there's also more absolute (and probably relative) variance.

I wouldn't call what I wrote anything as grand as a "conclusion". I don't consider myself any great mathematician, but it's clear to me at least that the data available may be useful even if not definitive.

Say as a team every game you score between 104 and 128 points, your opponent scores between 92 and 112 points (based on the ratings of the line-up '2' with Smart and a 20% interval). To simplify math we assume there's an even distribution of possible outcomes among that interval, which leads to a 92,3% chance of winning.

Surely the distributions are bell curves with centers at 116 and 102? - in other words, the distribution of outcomes is not even. But perhaps my mathematical knowledge is not up to speed here.

If we had to choose between the line-ups over a whole season for 82 games that is an exact difference of 2 won games (Baynes' goes 74-8 and Smart's 76-6). Not that big a difference.

As a percentage (wins/wins) not a big difference - point taken - but Boston won the #1 seed last year by two games. So the practical consequences of winning two more games can be significant.


Of course it's all nonsense since you can't play every minute of every game with the same 5 players and obviously then in a vacuum the direct effect of the choice between Smart and Baynes becomes marginal.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  It's not all nonsense, though if you amended that to say that these data are not definitive I'd agree. I'd say that they're suggestive, though.

In any case, TP to you for your important points.

Re: Marcus Smart please keep shooting!
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Re: Marcus Smart please keep shooting!
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2017, 07:31:33 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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