Author Topic: Okafor and agent getting upset (Merged thread)  (Read 3323 times)

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Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 08:23:33 AM »

Offline Moranis

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and people thought Hinkie was a problem.
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Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2017, 08:24:21 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Noel absolutely has no cause for complaint.  Okafor, less so.
He should absolutely be upset.

I'm a little confused by the first part but I think I understand your point. 

If you're saying Okafor has a reason to be upset because Philly mismanaged his injury (and given Philly's recent history, there is certainly reason to believe that) then you'll get no argument from me. Obviously I don't know anything about the specifics of the injury or how it was handled but if Philly's team didn't handle it correctly, Okafor has plenty of reason to be upset.

But I do agree with tazzmaniac that blaming "the process" for ruining Okafor and Noel's careers is nonsense.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 08:26:38 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I respect him for speaking out at this point.  The Sixers are one of the purer forms of trainwreck.

This...this is ‘the process’. They’ve destroyed Noel and Okafor’s careers because they were hell bent on being as bad as possible.

They got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons plus Simmons was after the Hinkie era where he had some type of mentors.
Nonsense.  Noel and Okafor had plenty of opportunity to develop with Embiid missing 2.5 seasons.  The Sixers have two undrafted players, McConnell and Covington, who have taken advantage of the opportunities that "the process" provided them. 

Noel had a chance to sign a 70M deal with Dallas but his ego made him really stupid.  Now he's not getting much playing time with Dallas.  Where's the outrage with Carlisle not playing Noel? 

Okafor was happy when he was getting his minutes on a lousy, losing team while being one of the worst defensive players in the league.  Now he complains when they are winning because he can't beat out Amir and Holmes for playing time.  He did have two opportunities to play when Embiid sat out this season.  He put up hollow numbers in a blowout loss to the Raptors and had a terribly bad 3 minutes against the Jazz.

Maybe "destroyed" is too strong, but its pretty hard to argue that "the process" didn't significantly negatively affect both careers.

I think you could argue that "the process" negatively impacted both MCW and Evan Turner's career too, although CBS saved Turner.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 08:41:25 AM »

Offline TA9

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Seems like they are willing to trade him for a 2nd round pick now. I would buy him out since I don't think it's worth the hassle to keep him on the team - against him wish - with the view of getting a 2nd round pick for him.
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Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 08:44:44 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I respect him for speaking out at this point.  The Sixers are one of the purer forms of trainwreck.

This...this is ‘the process’. They’ve destroyed Noel and Okafor’s careers because they were hell bent on being as bad as possible.

They got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons plus Simmons was after the Hinkie era where he had some type of mentors.
Nonsense.  Noel and Okafor had plenty of opportunity to develop with Embiid missing 2.5 seasons.  The Sixers have two undrafted players, McConnell and Covington, who have taken advantage of the opportunities that "the process" provided them. 

Noel had a chance to sign a 70M deal with Dallas but his ego made him really stupid.  Now he's not getting much playing time with Dallas.  Where's the outrage with Carlisle not playing Noel? 

Okafor was happy when he was getting his minutes on a lousy, losing team while being one of the worst defensive players in the league.  Now he complains when they are winning because he can't beat out Amir and Holmes for playing time.  He did have two opportunities to play when Embiid sat out this season.  He put up hollow numbers in a blowout loss to the Raptors and had a terribly bad 3 minutes against the Jazz.

Maybe "destroyed" is too strong, but its pretty hard to argue that "the process" didn't significantly negatively affect both careers.

I think you could argue that "the process" negatively impacted both MCW and Evan Turner's career too, although CBS saved Turner.
How so? What's the evidence that MCW would've been better had he never gone to Philly? He was given every opportunity to play Milwaukee and then Chicago and was no good.

Turner I don't get either. He was traded out of Philly at the very beginning of "the process" and his career was in the toilet before the Celtics because he played so poorly in Indiana. I'm not sure how you blame Philly for that.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2017, 08:48:24 AM »

Offline CelticD

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Rightfully so. He didn't ask to be drafted by the Sixers but I think he's expressed great decorum given the circumstances. Not everybody can be molded into a teo-way player. There were questions about his defense and motor well before he was drafted and Sixers took the chance anyway.

Now they know he won't have a future with the franchise yet they won't release him. They aren't giving him any playing time but are trying to draw lines in the sand when negotiating his trade value. It's just non sense. Let the kid go so he can move on with his life.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2017, 09:06:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

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the strangest thing to me is, if they played him and he played well they would increase his value and if he played poorly, well at least then you played him and gave him the chance.  And they clearly could play him at least a little bit.  The fact that he isn't playing at all is just not a good look for the franchise.
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Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2017, 09:31:21 AM »

Offline chiken Green

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They are trying to win games now.. No (Sorry).. They are actually winning games now. They are a fast paced team that is giving teams problems.. They play with pace (like We do)  Okafor does not fit that style of play their..
And I know he isnt playing in the games but is he also not practicing either.. Are we suggesting that Ok is killing it in practice and still not getting any burn?

This idea that some feel that we need this guy to come in and bog our paint down is mindboggling to me..  In what world does Okafor switch out on Defense?  Where in the heavens has he ever stretched the floor (Ever)  Where are our other 3PT shooters on the bench that could help give him room to work.. He is also a poor passer out of the double team.. Doesnt he need to be able to do that at least?

This guy is Al Jefferson 2.0 and Al has been thrown from team to team and can barely get off the bench in Indy at this point.. (because they play fast as well)

What would be the point in getting Two from him on one side of the court and giving up 2', 3's and And ones' on the other.. I would rather send a second to Indy for AJ.. Hes a vet who wont whine if he can't get off the bench..


Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2017, 09:37:49 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Both Sixers and Mavs are showing that, yes, they are in fact run by petty, spiteful, greedy morons.   I expected this form Philly, I did not expect it from Dallas.

I hope this leaves a stain on both franchises and causes agents to steer their players away from these two clown shows.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2017, 09:51:57 AM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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He absolutely has a right to be frustrated. They've declined his option for next year, meaning he'll be an unrestricted free agent as of this summer. Instead of him playing and showing what he can do, the Sixers have parked him on the bench while they seek a trade for, what exactly, a high 2nd round pick?

People somehow are now impressed by "the Process" now that they've got Embiid and Simmons and they're playing .500 ball. Congratulations, you've got two potential cornerstone young guys. There are about ten teams (including the Celtics) who can say that about themselves. And for the Sixers, one is at risk of major injury every time he steps on the floor, and the other can't shoot a jumpshot to save his life. Great young players, don't get me wrong. But your franchise is reviled around the league and you just suffered the embarrassment of winning 22 games per year over a half decade, and this is what you've got.
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Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2017, 09:56:38 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Noel absolutely has no cause for complaint.  Okafor, less so.
He should absolutely be upset.

I'm a little confused by the first part but I think I understand your point. 

If you're saying Okafor has a reason to be upset because Philly mismanaged his injury (and given Philly's recent history, there is certainly reason to believe that) then you'll get no argument from me. Obviously I don't know anything about the specifics of the injury or how it was handled but if Philly's team didn't handle it correctly, Okafor has plenty of reason to be upset.

But I do agree with tazzmaniac that blaming "the process" for ruining Okafor and Noel's careers is nonsense.

Poorly worded, but essentially that.  I do think “the process” had some impact on his injury treatment, however.  By selecting three top picks who could not share the floor together, Okafor was viewed more as a trade asset once Embiid showed himself to be a potential HOFer.  The Sixers a) seemed to feel that the best way to get value for this asset was to play him while injured before last year’s deadline, and b) did not want to trade him for too little considering the resources spent in drafting him.  Had Okafor been drafted by another team, they may have tried to make sure he got fully healthy before playing, viewing him as a long-term player, much like the Sixers themselves handled Embiid.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2017, 10:02:03 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I respect him for speaking out at this point.  The Sixers are one of the purer forms of trainwreck.

This...this is ‘the process’. They’ve destroyed Noel and Okafor’s careers because they were hell bent on being as bad as possible.

They got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons plus Simmons was after the Hinkie era where he had some type of mentors.
Nonsense.  Noel and Okafor had plenty of opportunity to develop with Embiid missing 2.5 seasons.  The Sixers have two undrafted players, McConnell and Covington, who have taken advantage of the opportunities that "the process" provided them. 

Noel had a chance to sign a 70M deal with Dallas but his ego made him really stupid.  Now he's not getting much playing time with Dallas.  Where's the outrage with Carlisle not playing Noel? 

Okafor was happy when he was getting his minutes on a lousy, losing team while being one of the worst defensive players in the league.  Now he complains when they are winning because he can't beat out Amir and Holmes for playing time.  He did have two opportunities to play when Embiid sat out this season.  He put up hollow numbers in a blowout loss to the Raptors and had a terribly bad 3 minutes against the Jazz.

Maybe "destroyed" is too strong, but its pretty hard to argue that "the process" didn't significantly negatively affect both careers.

I think you could argue that "the process" negatively impacted both MCW and Evan Turner's career too, although CBS saved Turner.
How so? What's the evidence that MCW would've been better had he never gone to Philly? He was given every opportunity to play Milwaukee and then Chicago and was no good.

Turner I don't get either. He was traded out of Philly at the very beginning of "the process" and his career was in the toilet before the Celtics because he played so poorly in Indiana. I'm not sure how you blame Philly for that.

I think you are put in a significant disadvantage if the team you go to in your formative years does not develop you well. It could be because you are allowed to do whatever you want, and therefore learn bad habits, or because you are not developed in your abilities, or you lose confidence in your game.

Turner is a good example. MCW may have never been good, but he had court vision and athleticism. Hawes, Dedmon, Grant, McDaniels, Robinson, Canaan, and Wroten all needed to find their impact on a basketball game on other teams. There are a host of other boom or bust prospects that didn't pan out either, like Mullens, Lorenzo Brown, Brandon Davies, Daniel Orten, Elliot Williams, Arnet Moultrie, Darius Johnson-Odom, Jakarr Sampson, and Christian Wood.

Its a disadvantage that can be overcome, but it does impact you negatively.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 10:12:51 AM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2017, 10:02:42 AM »

Offline timpiker

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Can he become a good rebounder and a good defender?  To date, the results don't look good.  But I believe in Brad. 

Can we use someone that is gifted in the paint?  During cold spells and/or crunch time when it becomes a slow, half-court game, absolutely!

I wouldn't give up much for him but I'd like to see it happen mostly because I think he's got the skills and I have faith in Brad to bring it out.

Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 10:12:00 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I respect him for speaking out at this point.  The Sixers are one of the purer forms of trainwreck.

This...this is ‘the process’. They’ve destroyed Noel and Okafor’s careers because they were hell bent on being as bad as possible.

They got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons plus Simmons was after the Hinkie era where he had some type of mentors.
Nonsense.  Noel and Okafor had plenty of opportunity to develop with Embiid missing 2.5 seasons.  The Sixers have two undrafted players, McConnell and Covington, who have taken advantage of the opportunities that "the process" provided them. 

Noel had a chance to sign a 70M deal with Dallas but his ego made him really stupid.  Now he's not getting much playing time with Dallas.  Where's the outrage with Carlisle not playing Noel? 

Okafor was happy when he was getting his minutes on a lousy, losing team while being one of the worst defensive players in the league.  Now he complains when they are winning because he can't beat out Amir and Holmes for playing time.  He did have two opportunities to play when Embiid sat out this season.  He put up hollow numbers in a blowout loss to the Raptors and had a terribly bad 3 minutes against the Jazz.

Maybe "destroyed" is too strong, but its pretty hard to argue that "the process" didn't significantly negatively affect both careers.

I think you could argue that "the process" negatively impacted both MCW and Evan Turner's career too, although CBS saved Turner.
How so? What's the evidence that MCW would've been better had he never gone to Philly? He was given every opportunity to play Milwaukee and then Chicago and was no good.

Turner I don't get either. He was traded out of Philly at the very beginning of "the process" and his career was in the toilet before the Celtics because he played so poorly in Indiana. I'm not sure how you blame Philly for that.

I think you are put in a significant disadvantage if the team you go to in your formative years does not develop you well. It could be because you are allowed to do whatever you want, and therefore learn bad habits, or because you are not developed in your abilities, or you lose confidence in your game.

Turner is a good example. MCW may have never been good, but he had court vision and athleticism.

Its a disadvantage that can be overcome, but it does impact you negatively.
MCW was the 11th pick in a weak draft and played on the Sixers for 1.5 seasons.  The Sixers didn't destroy his career at all.  He just wasn't very good. 

Turner isn't a good example because he was on the Sixers when they were still a playoff team.  He is the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.  The Process didn't destroy Turner, Turner just wasn't very good (though that Process half season was by far Turner's most productive season). 
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Re: Okafor and agent getting upset
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2017, 10:15:27 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I respect him for speaking out at this point.  The Sixers are one of the purer forms of trainwreck.

This...this is ‘the process’. They’ve destroyed Noel and Okafor’s careers because they were hell bent on being as bad as possible.

They got extremely lucky with Embiid and Simmons plus Simmons was after the Hinkie era where he had some type of mentors.
Nonsense.  Noel and Okafor had plenty of opportunity to develop with Embiid missing 2.5 seasons.  The Sixers have two undrafted players, McConnell and Covington, who have taken advantage of the opportunities that "the process" provided them. 

Noel had a chance to sign a 70M deal with Dallas but his ego made him really stupid.  Now he's not getting much playing time with Dallas.  Where's the outrage with Carlisle not playing Noel? 

Okafor was happy when he was getting his minutes on a lousy, losing team while being one of the worst defensive players in the league.  Now he complains when they are winning because he can't beat out Amir and Holmes for playing time.  He did have two opportunities to play when Embiid sat out this season.  He put up hollow numbers in a blowout loss to the Raptors and had a terribly bad 3 minutes against the Jazz.

Maybe "destroyed" is too strong, but its pretty hard to argue that "the process" didn't significantly negatively affect both careers.

I think you could argue that "the process" negatively impacted both MCW and Evan Turner's career too, although CBS saved Turner.
How so? What's the evidence that MCW would've been better had he never gone to Philly? He was given every opportunity to play Milwaukee and then Chicago and was no good.

Turner I don't get either. He was traded out of Philly at the very beginning of "the process" and his career was in the toilet before the Celtics because he played so poorly in Indiana. I'm not sure how you blame Philly for that.

I think you are put in a significant disadvantage if the team you go to in your formative years does not develop you well. It could be because you are allowed to do whatever you want, and therefore learn bad habits, or because you are not developed in your abilities, or you lose confidence in your game.

Turner is a good example. MCW may have never been good, but he had court vision and athleticism.

Its a disadvantage that can be overcome, but it does impact you negatively.
MCW was the 11th pick in a weak draft and played on the Sixers for 1.5 seasons.  The Sixers didn't destroy his career at all.  He just wasn't very good. 

Turner isn't a good example because he was on the Sixers when they were still a playoff team.  He is the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove.  The Process didn't destroy Turner, Turner just wasn't very good (though that Process half season was by far Turner's most productive season).

I edited the comment above to include this list.

Turner is a good example. MCW may have never been good, but he had court vision and athleticism. Hawes, Dedmon, Grant, McDaniels, Robinson, Canaan, and Wroten all needed to find their impact on a basketball game on other teams. There are a host of other boom or bust prospects that didn't pan out either, like Mullens, Lorenzo Brown, Brandon Davies, Daniel Orten, Elliot Williams, Arnet Moultrie, Darius Johnson-Odom, Jakarr Sampson, and Christian Wood.

I realize that many of them would not have panned out anyway, including, as you mentioned MCW. But many scouts saw potential in a lot of these players that could have developed. The Sixers could not and did not in "the process." I think you could easily argue it is because of "the process" that those players did not develop.

The success of the process has been Ben Simmons, Joel Embiid, and Robert Covington. McConnell and Fultz remain to be seen. Still, that's not a great percentage, and that is sacrificing a lot of players for the franchise.