Author Topic: *ROY with Asterisk  (Read 3206 times)

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Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 12:18:08 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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If you did you would know what an edge it is to be 21 instead of 19 in terms of physical maturity.

So then should older rookies be discounted from winning? Malcolm Brogdon was a 23 year old rookie afterall. It's a slippery slope.
exactly.  And in the old days Tatum and Simmons would both still be in college.  Should we give an asterisk to anyone who earns a degree?  They will likely be older than Simmons is.
Yes, it's a slippery slope, and the arguments against Simmons do not take into account what kind of training each player needs.  Some guys need strength conditioning, others better aerobics, etc.  Also, this award is based on 'play not pay'.  IMO, it is much more objective to simply use "1st NBA game" to define a rookie year.

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 12:35:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Larry Bird won ROY at 23 years old. Age of a rookie shouldn't matter. And rookies who miss their whole first season due to injury, can't practice or work out for very long periods of time as they heal from their injuries. So I don't see how that year being injured is such an advantage.

I say just keep it the way it is. Does it suck for someone like Tatum because that rookie is playing better than him? Sure. But Simmons is still playing in his first year so is a rookie. Embiid and Noel had injury years and didn't win ROY. So it happens the other way too.

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2017, 12:41:53 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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I’m divided on this, but ultimately think the league has it right. Rookie = first year of playing NBA games.

I agree with this that's why all the European players that come over with years of pro experience are rookies.  It's not fair to the one in done 19 year old college kids but it is what it is.  Simmons like Griffin enjoyed that year off and it showed.  Just like Embid sat for 2 years and came in monstrous, if it wasn't for the injury he would have won rookie of the year last year.

However  all offensive statistics aside I think that Tatum is showing he's playing better defense and he's contributing in a serious way to the #1 seed in basketball winning. So if Boston finishes number one in the East and Tatum continues to play exactly how he is playing I really think that with his all-around game, inside outside, strength at the foul line, 3-point shooting, killer mid-range game, and lock down D,  in the end he should really be able to edge out Simmons for ROY.

That's nothing against Simmons I think Simmons is a hundred percent as advertised.  He's a fantastic player and he's doing exactly what everybody hoped he would, but we're not really seeing it on the defensive end like we are with Tatum.  Even though Simmons is taking a bottom feeder team into the playoffs, which it looks like he is, Tatum is part of a miraculous transformation here in Boston.  We only returned four players from last year's team and only one starter.  Our 20-plus point a game all-star got hurt 5 minutes into the season and Tatum has filled his minutes better than expexted. I think what Tatum is doing truly personifies the spirit of Rookie of the Year and while Simmons is a statistical monster I think Tatum should win the award.  This is an offensive statistics league so Simmons will win ROY, but not if Tatum makes the all NBA defensive team as a rookie.  ;D

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2017, 12:44:11 PM »

Offline footey

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Kind of an empty debate. Who cares the winner of ROY 5 years from now?

Ask MCW.

I think both Simmons and Tatum destined to be all stars. Simmons looking like he could be real special.

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2017, 12:47:44 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Both Simmons and griffin benefit from a year of nba coaches, trainers, veterans, etc speaking to them and teaching them how to play the game. It isn't fair for them to be considered rookies

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2017, 12:48:42 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Kind of an empty debate. Who cares the winner of ROY 5 years from now?

Ask MCW.

I think both Simmons and Tatum destined to be all stars. Simmons looking like he could be real special.
Why is Simmons special but not tatum?

I've seen Simmons play, he doesn't play any defense. I see nothing special about that

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2017, 01:14:29 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Larry Bird won ROY at 23 years old. Age of a rookie shouldn't matter. And rookies who miss their whole first season due to injury, can't practice or work out for very long periods of time as they heal from their injuries. So I don't see how that year being injured is such an advantage.

I say just keep it the way it is. Does it suck for someone like Tatum because that rookie is playing better than him? Sure. But Simmons is still playing in his first year so is a rookie. Embiid and Noel had injury years and didn't win ROY. So it happens the other way too.

Exactly. In fact, Magic was 20 during his rookie season, so should Bird get an asterisk because he was so much older than Magic?

Just seems like sour grapes and this wouldn't even be a thread if the situation was reversed and one of our guys was the beneficiary of the rules.

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2017, 01:20:17 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Seems this is the year of bad shooting by players in consideration for ROY.This includes .000% on threes for Simmons and .56% on free throws
Fultz withdrew from league being mocked on his shooting foul shots
Lonzo has zero mid range and can't shoot from three at,25%,the foul line .42% and .31%fg

This is the NBA-how can one minimize the inability of not shooting free throws or mid range or threes for guards or point forwards
And our guy hits .487 from three and .84% from foul line and almost .50% from field -he is total package including defense and being integral part of 16 straight wins--his team is number one in NBA for defense and his length is a big part of it.
Jayson calmly goes to foul line in tight game and drops two,his rebounding doubled over the last three games.
A simple drop step baseline,a euro step in transition,backing down a player or mid range jumper to a sweet arcing three.A rebound and he scampers full court for a dunk, on another rebound he takes it left handed to foul line puts a move on the defender and its another dunk.
19 year old rookies don't do this stuff or play defense at his level-the guy is special, special, special and getting better.

The day a player signs a NBA contract and gets a NBA paycheck that day should start the clock.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 01:57:11 PM by rollie mass »

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2017, 01:20:20 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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What matters is that Tatum is on the Celtics and not Markelle Fultz! 😂

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2017, 01:52:04 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you did you would know what an edge it is to be 21 instead of 19 in terms of physical maturity.

So then should older rookies be discounted from winning? Malcolm Brogdon was a 23 year old rookie afterall. It's a slippery slope.
exactly.  And in the old days Tatum and Simmons would both still be in college.  Should we give an asterisk to anyone who earns a degree?  They will likely be older than Simmons is.
the bigger advantage is being able to train with an nba team for a whole year
and there is a huge disadvantage on being injured and having to heal, rehab, recover, etc.  No one is better after being injured bad enough to miss an entire year
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Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2017, 02:09:13 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If you did you would know what an edge it is to be 21 instead of 19 in terms of physical maturity.

So then should older rookies be discounted from winning? Malcolm Brogdon was a 23 year old rookie afterall. It's a slippery slope.
exactly.  And in the old days Tatum and Simmons would both still be in college.  Should we give an asterisk to anyone who earns a degree?  They will likely be older than Simmons is.
the bigger advantage is being able to train with an nba team for a whole year
and there is a huge disadvantage on being injured and having to heal, rehab, recover, etc.  No one is better after being injured bad enough to miss an entire year
Exactly, Moranis.

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2017, 02:29:18 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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If you did you would know what an edge it is to be 21 instead of 19 in terms of physical maturity.

So then should older rookies be discounted from winning? Malcolm Brogdon was a 23 year old rookie afterall. It's a slippery slope.
exactly.  And in the old days Tatum and Simmons would both still be in college.  Should we give an asterisk to anyone who earns a degree?  They will likely be older than Simmons is.
the bigger advantage is being able to train with an nba team for a whole year
and there is a huge disadvantage on being injured and having to heal, rehab, recover, etc.  No one is better after being injured bad enough to miss an entire year
for sure...

...

if that player is ACTUALLY injured the whole  year..
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: ROY with asterik
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2017, 02:30:10 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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What matters is that Tatum is on the Celtics and not Markelle Fultz! 😂
TP
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: *ROY with Asterisk
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2017, 02:39:53 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Simmons talks freely about the advantages and interactions with coaches-he would actually text during games.He learned the game of NBA basketball from film and being tutored by coaches.Basketball becomes very technical at NBA level. BBIQ can be cultivated off the court

Simmons shot 3 three pointers in college.He knows something isn't right..

I can't remember which game but he was being guarded by someone good,the clock was winding down with score tied-Simmons dribbled the clock down and then drove left, quite predictable ,his defender was fast laterally and strong and kept him from turning  the corner-he has no mid range so chucked an awkward pass that turned into an air ball -time elapsed and philly went on to lose in OTl

There are those that think Lebron deferred to Irving in clutch time, as he didn't like going to foul line at end of game.
When playoffs start it comes down to who does the little things and shooting 50% from line will lose games-not be able to shoot threes adds pressure elsewhere and allows for no closeouts or fear of corner threes.
A first year player depending on injury could come back stronger and better-and with a year of maturity-

« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 03:50:10 PM by rollie mass »

Re: *ROY with Asterisk
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2017, 03:01:42 PM »

Offline loco_91

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Hard to say Simmons doesn't deserve ROY at this point. He's a monster, as impressive for a 21 year old as Tatum is for a 19yo. I'm sure if you ask Tatum, he'd take a deep playoff run over ROY every time.