Author Topic: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load  (Read 6324 times)

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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2017, 05:39:47 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2017, 06:46:49 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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So far, it is loading fine.  I realize it is early but the sky has not fallen.   Now draft night will be another matter..

Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2017, 07:09:49 PM »

Online kraidstar

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So far, it is loading fine.  I realize it is early but the sky has not fallen.   Now draft night will be another matter..

Another matter as far as loading times or for the sky falling regarding the draft? Personally I expect both come draft night, they are annual traditions on this site.

Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2017, 12:53:07 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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You know, before Net Neutrality, I don't remember ISPs reducing bandwith on sites or charging tremendously extra to the consumer for faster internet speeds. Competition between the ISPs drove the fastest internet speeds to be the norm.

Now unless the ISPs have decided that reducing bandwith to sites and consumers is something that is going to make them huge money and are going to start practicing in that business matter, I am not sure what Net Neutrality does.

My guess though is that ISPs have decided to do just that to drive profits and choke competition. Sadly enough, just another money grab from some of the larger corporations.

Well, you may not remember it, but the fact is, yes, Comcast and other ISPs DID try to implement preferential packet transfer policies back before the Net Neutrality rules were put in place to stop them from doing so.  I detailed these events in a post much earlier in this thread.
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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2017, 01:08:11 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I for one am not worried about this. I truly believe that if the big ISP's throttle their consumers, their consumers will flee at the first opportunity to some other new entity that has yet to arrive in the space. Every 25 years, new companies arrive and innovate in many verticals leaving old top companies in the dust. Think record labels of the 90's who fought their consumers for going online and getting digital versions of their music instead of innovating for their consumers, they were left in the dust to new innovators in the space who replaced the need to buy physical music.

Does anyone really believe that billion dollar Goliath's like Amazon and Netflix will not find a solution to any ISP who dares to throttle them? They will either cut big deals with them to make sure it does not happen or they will go out and acquire and ISP and provide their own solution.


The problem isn't that they' throttle consumers.  The problem is that they can

a) throttle small content providers who can't afford to pay the same rates as the Amazons, Netflixes and Hulus.
b) throttle any content provider who competes with _their own_ content.  I.E., Charter and Comcast, who both provide their own streaming download services, can make sure those come to you faster than content provided by Amazon, Netflix, etc.
c) force all major content providers to have to pay more for 'top tier' bandwidth which, since in the end will still be shared by all the other big providers paying more for the top tier ... won't really be any faster.  Just more expensive.

The latter two reasons are why big content providers are against repeal of the NN rules.

Also, remember, in most of the country, consumers have very limited choices as to who their ISP provider is. 

Quote
Now is a perfect time for a new ISP to go after any current ISP who does go down the screw the consumer road. History has shown time and time again, that if you lose the pulse of your consumer, you will be left the way of dinosaurs.

At the same time, to improve speeds and maintain networks in an ever changing technological world, companies have the right to charge whatever they want for their service. If the consumer does not like, find another solution and show your displeasure where it hurts them the most. If their is no other solution, be patient, things will be changing fast in the coming years and new solutions will appear just as fast.

This ignores that there are tremendous barriers to entry in the ISP market.   The big players there are all benefiting from legacy infrastructure built leveraging off exclusive local municipal contracts which gave them guaranteed mini-monopolies in return for building the cabling systems in place.   Even though most of those contracts are gradually expiring, the cost of entry into most such markets is very high.

Thus it's not like consumers or vendors can easily switch from one ISP provider to another on a whim.  That may change in the future, with ubiquitous high-speed wireless technologies, but we are still quite a ways before that day.

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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2017, 01:16:05 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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You know, before Net Neutrality, I don't remember ISPs reducing bandwith on sites or charging tremendously extra to the consumer for faster internet speeds. Competition between the ISPs drove the fastest internet speeds to be the norm.

Now unless the ISPs have decided that reducing bandwith to sites and consumers is something that is going to make them huge money and are going to start practicing in that business matter, I am not sure what Net Neutrality does.

My guess though is that ISPs have decided to do just that to drive profits and choke competition. Sadly enough, just another money grab from some of the larger corporations.

Iím really at a loss here.  Iím here asking so many questions because some of the most articulate conservatives I know also root for Celtics.  Iím sincerely trying to see this from the GOP point of view, but it seems as if no one can articulate that.  I mean, maybe itís illegal according to Roy?  Ok... I guess thatís a start.  But the question remains, why is it a good idea? 

At least with topics like Obamacare, Taxes, Gun Control, & Womenís Health; we have pros and cons to consider & prioritize. 

But this is different....What are the pros to this?   
As I said, the pros for this is not for the consumer, its for the corporations that provide internet service. It a pro for them to make higher profits. Its the reason they spent millions lobbying for the removal of Net Neutrality.

Good for corporations can be good for consumers. These telecoms over the past 20 years have made cell phones, digital cable, streaming movies and wireless internet a way of life for the vast majority of Americans.

Excessive regulation is the enemy of innovation.  Less regulation means more investment means better products, like 5G.

This is a broad generalization that isn't really very helpful because it isn't necessarily always true.

Enforcement of patent, copyright and trademark rights is a form of regulation but the ability to protect the rights to your own creative ideas is crucial to encouraging innovation.

Having consistent highway laws, road widths, traffic management devices, speed limits, etc., and such are all forms of regulation, but clearly having them is good for the delivery of products over the roadways.

Having standard rail widths and safety inspections (regulation) of railways is good for the transport of goods over railways - and doesn't even require all rails be owned by the public.
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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2017, 01:21:33 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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You know, before Net Neutrality, I don't remember ISPs reducing bandwith on sites or charging tremendously extra to the consumer for faster internet speeds. Competition between the ISPs drove the fastest internet speeds to be the norm.

Now unless the ISPs have decided that reducing bandwith to sites and consumers is something that is going to make them huge money and are going to start practicing in that business matter, I am not sure what Net Neutrality does.

My guess though is that ISPs have decided to do just that to drive profits and choke competition. Sadly enough, just another money grab from some of the larger corporations.

Iím really at a loss here.  Iím here asking so many questions because some of the most articulate conservatives I know also root for Celtics.  Iím sincerely trying to see this from the GOP point of view, but it seems as if no one can articulate that.  I mean, maybe itís illegal according to Roy?  Ok... I guess thatís a start.  But the question remains, why is it a good idea? 

At least with topics like Obamacare, Taxes, Gun Control, & Womenís Health; we have pros and cons to consider & prioritize. 

But this is different....What are the pros to this?   
As I said, the pros for this is not for the consumer, its for the corporations that provide internet service. It a pro for them to make higher profits. Its the reason they spent millions lobbying for the removal of Net Neutrality.

Good for corporations can be good for consumers. These telecoms over the past 20 years have made cell phones, digital cable, streaming movies and wireless internet a way of life for the vast majority of Americans.

Excessive regulation is the enemy of innovation.  Less regulation means more investment means better products, like 5G.
I agree it can be a good thing for consumers, it doesn't necessarily mean it will but hopefully it will. But let's not forget these same corporations are going to get a huge tax break. They will be getting a ton of extra money to reinvest.

Also, excessive regulation might be the enemy of innovation, but sometimes is necessary for the good of all. Look at what the lack of regulation led to in the banking industry. Their innovations in mortgage lending and selling them as a commodity eventually hurt everyone for years.

Lastly, I am not sure Net Neutrality is excessive regulation. It might be just the type of regulation that is good for everyone as a whole. And obviously it hasn't led to a lack of innovation in that industry because of all the recent innovations that you discussed. Those companies obviously have the cash flow to fund their research and development departments and create new technology even with Net Neutrality.

The thing I think about is the mobile market place.

The technology is pretty close to being able to almost make having a landline completely unnecessary.   Once that happens I think the game is going to change tremendously., as the mobile market place is far more open than the landline market place. Comcast recently started to make efforts to gain entry to that market, so I know it's coming soon.

As for the regulation aspect, I don't think comparing the lending industry to the internet/tv industry makes much sense. Totally different beasts.

That's only the "last mile" part of the network.   Tiered, preferential packet transfer policy will be implement in the network backbones.     Traffic from a content provider, i.e., Netflix, will have to go over the backbones before it gets to a wireless transmission point capable of reaching consumers.

Having ubiquitous high-speed wireless will solve the "last mile" problem of providing more consumer connection provider options.  But it won't do anything to stop preferential packet transfer policy over the backbones.
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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #127 on: January 25, 2018, 10:22:03 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Burger King (seriously) has just chimed in on Net Neutrality.  Itís a must-watch (3-minutes):

https://youtu.be/ltzy5vRmN8Q
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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2018, 10:32:11 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Burger King (seriously) has just chimed in on Net Neutrality.  Itís a must-watch (3-minutes):

https://youtu.be/ltzy5vRmN8Q

Thatís a great ad.

Of course, if BK wanted to do such a thing, they should be allowed to do so. And if BK wanted to charge more for a fresh made customizable burger, rather than a 10 minute old pre-made one, they might get consumers to buy in.


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Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2018, 10:45:33 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Burger King (seriously) has just chimed in on Net Neutrality.  Itís a must-watch (3-minutes):

https://youtu.be/ltzy5vRmN8Q

Thatís a great ad.

Of course, if BK wanted to do such a thing, they should be allowed to do so. And if BK wanted to charge more for a fresh made customizable burger, rather than a 10 minute old pre-made one, they might get consumers to buy in.

Right.  Of course, if they actually did that, most of their customers would go to McDonalds or Wendyís or any of the multitude of fast-food burger options. When it comes to the internet, the majority of households only have one option for a high-speed provider, and very few have more than two choices. Itís the lack of competition that requires regulation, since the market canít do it on its own.
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Pelicans: Davis, Holiday, Vucevic, Rondo, Clarkson, Nance, Hart, Moore, Ilyasova, Ajinca, Hill, Miller, Jackson, Dotson, Dakari Johnson

Warriors:  KD, Steph, Klay, Draymomd, Iggy, Zaza, Young, Livingston, McGee, West, McCaw, Jones, Casspi, Jones, Looney

Google for picks.

Re: Without Net Neutrality this site will take forever to load
« Reply #130 on: January 25, 2018, 11:51:42 AM »

Offline gift

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Burger King (seriously) has just chimed in on Net Neutrality.  Itís a must-watch (3-minutes):

https://youtu.be/ltzy5vRmN8Q

Thatís a great ad.

Of course, if BK wanted to do such a thing, they should be allowed to do so. And if BK wanted to charge more for a fresh made customizable burger, rather than a 10 minute old pre-made one, they might get consumers to buy in.

Right.  Of course, if they actually did that, most of their customers would go to McDonalds or Wendyís or any of the multitude of fast-food burger options. When it comes to the internet, the majority of households only have one option for a high-speed provider, and very few have more than two choices. Itís the lack of competition that requires regulation, since the market canít do it on its own.

Worth noting, though, that regulation is the reason for such limited service provider choice. We can't poison the environment necessary for a healthy market and then expect the market to function optimally.