Author Topic: Michael Porter Jr out for the year  (Read 1567 times)

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Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 07:21:16 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Well that makes the draft interesting next year.  If he shifts to 2019 (and recovers), the top of that class could get a little deeper.

I was wondering what was wrong, as not only had he played just two minutes this year, but he couldn’t even sit on the bench with the team due to pain.  Really hope he gets healthy.

I can't imagine he stays in college. Instead, he'll be a 2 minutes and done player. That said, he looks like he would be an amazing fit for our team as he provides positional versatility on both ends of the floor and cap space the floor. This might be a blessing (for us) in disguise if the injury makes him drop to 4 or 5 (behind Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, and maybe Bamba) and obviously the Lakers pick conveys. Back injuries aren't anything to dismiss, so teams could very well be apprehensive.

I’d find it unlikely but not impossible that he stays.  His father is an assistant at Mizzou and his younger brother finished high school early so they could play together in college.  He’s got a little more bond to college than the average top prospect.  I’d expect him to go through the pre-draft process for certain, but if he doesn’t hear people telling him a high enough number he could stay in school.

EDIT:  He’ll also have an older sister who’s a senior at Mizzou, and his aunt coaches the women’s team.  The Porter family has quite the ties to Mizzou.

Too much risk. If he's a top 5 pick, which he should be, he's gone. Imagine if he returns and re-injures his back. That would be disastrous for him financially. He'll see his family all the time, he's not leaving the country by going to the NBA.

I guess you think he’ll recover more quickly than I do.  I doubt he can show enough in workouts to be a top 5 pick.  There are enough good prospects that could easily push him to the 8-12 range.  Top picks get paid a lot of money, and it’s going to be more difficult for a team to risk committing to that for someone with such a significant injury than it may have been in the past.

Givony believes he'll be a mid-lottery pick, so I guess he's thinking the 6-9 range.

Edit: I misread that. Givony still has him as mid-lottery pick in his mock draft, with potential to go up based on workouts.

Quote
Pending a full doctor's prognosis on Porter, the fact that the NBA draft is seven months away means there is a very good chance that he will be able to conduct workouts for NBA teams, which should go a long way in easing the concerns of top decision-makers. If his recovery time is indeed three to four months as Missouri stated, he could easily be healthy and back in top shape by the time the NBA combine rolls around in mid-May.

The glut of big men at the top of this draft, with six of the top 10 prospects in our Top 100 currently projected to see most of their NBA minutes at center, should help Porter as well. At 6 feet 10, he is a skilled, oversized wing player who is big enough to see minutes at power forward. Porter can get his shot off with ease and should become a solid defender in time.

After landing at No. 2 in our mock draft before the college season started, he'll likely find himself in the mid-lottery of the next one. But he will have plenty of time to make up lost ground by the time the 2018 draft rolls around on June 21.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 07:22:34 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Well that makes the draft interesting next year.  If he shifts to 2019 (and recovers), the top of that class could get a little deeper.

I was wondering what was wrong, as not only had he played just two minutes this year, but he couldn’t even sit on the bench with the team due to pain.  Really hope he gets healthy.

I can't imagine he stays in college. Instead, he'll be a 2 minutes and done player. That said, he looks like he would be an amazing fit for our team as he provides positional versatility on both ends of the floor and cap space the floor. This might be a blessing (for us) in disguise if the injury makes him drop to 4 or 5 (behind Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, and maybe Bamba) and obviously the Lakers pick conveys. Back injuries aren't anything to dismiss, so teams could very well be apprehensive.

I’d find it unlikely but not impossible that he stays.  His father is an assistant at Mizzou and his younger brother finished high school early so they could play together in college.  He’s got a little more bond to college than the average top prospect.  I’d expect him to go through the pre-draft process for certain, but if he doesn’t hear people telling him a high enough number he could stay in school.

EDIT:  He’ll also have an older sister who’s a senior at Mizzou, and his aunt coaches the women’s team.  The Porter family has quite the ties to Mizzou.

Too much risk. If he's a top 5 pick, which he should be, he's gone. Imagine if he returns and re-injures his back. That would be disastrous for him financially. He'll see his family all the time, he's not leaving the country by going to the NBA.

I guess you think he’ll recover more quickly than I do.  I doubt he can show enough in workouts to be a top 5 pick.  There are enough good prospects that could easily push him to the 8-12 range.  Top picks get paid a lot of money, and it’s going to be more difficult for a team to risk committing to that for someone with such a significant injury than it may have been in the past.

That's right but I don't see why being pushed into the 8-12 (or even lower) range would make him less likely to come out. Yes, it's less money, but the red flags are greater by definition, and if he has a significant risk of dropping into the 2nd or not getting drafted at all in 2019, then he would come out for the sure money of a 1st round contract, right?

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 07:23:23 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger hurt his back, even though he had supposed top 5 talent he fell like a rock. Herniated discs in 18 and 19 year olds is not a good sign for long term health.
the question now is- does Michael now declare and fall all the way to our late 1st, and if so will ainge pull the trigger?  At the late 1st round, I wouldn’t mind waiting for porter to heal up even if it takes a year or more.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 07:28:07 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger hurt his back, even though he had supposed top 5 talent he fell like a rock. Herniated discs in 18 and 19 year olds is not a good sign for long term health.
the question now is- does Michael now declare and fall all the way to our late 1st, and if so will ainge pull the trigger?  At the late 1st round, I wouldn’t mind waiting for porter to heal up even if it takes a year or more.

That's not happening. Sullinger went in the early 20's and he had weight issues, athletic concerns, and a bad back. Porter is the real the deal, the likes of which any team will take a chance on. Especially one likes ours that has the talent in place to really swing for the fences.

BTW...the Nets pick we gave the Cavs just got a little bit worse.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 08:50:03 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger

Can one really say Jared was thin in college, thinner perhaps but definitely no skinny.


Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 09:01:53 PM »

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger
I know you hate Sullinger but he was in pretty amazing shape at Ohio State and was thin and muscular with a big butt. He became fat and out of shape but you can't really try to suggest he was even close to that at OSU.
Can one really say Jared was thin in college, thinner perhaps but definitely no skinny.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 09:08:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger

Can one really say Jared was thin in college, thinner perhaps but definitely no skinny.
I know you hate Sullinger but he was in pretty amazing shape at Ohio State and was thin and muscular with a big butt. He became fat and out of shape but you can't really try to suggest he was even close to that at OSU.

Fixed your nested quotes.

Also, Sullinger was 262 after his junior year in high school at the Amare camp, 286 after his senior year, 281 after his freshman year at OSU, and 268 at the draft combine.  He was never really in amazing shape.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 10:04:35 PM »

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger

Can one really say Jared was thin in college, thinner perhaps but definitely no skinny.
I know you hate Sullinger but he was in pretty amazing shape at Ohio State and was thin and muscular with a big butt. He became fat and out of shape but you can't really try to suggest he was even close to that at OSU.

Fixed your nested quotes.

Also, Sullinger was 262 after his junior year in high school at the Amare camp, 286 after his senior year, 281 after his freshman year at OSU, and 268 at the draft combine.  He was never really in amazing shape.
Not sure pointing out his weight at various times gives any indication as to the athletic shape he was in. You can weigh a lot and still be in amazing shape. Sullinger was never going to be a 225 pound athletic freak of a power forward. But for his body type, he was in great shape at OSU.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2017, 06:08:58 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger hurt his back, even though he had supposed top 5 talent he fell like a rock. Herniated discs in 18 and 19 year olds is not a good sign for long term health.
the question now is- does Michael now declare and fall all the way to our late 1st, and if so will ainge pull the trigger?  At the late 1st round, I wouldn’t mind waiting for porter to heal up even if it takes a year or more.

That's not happening. Sullinger went in the early 20's and he had weight issues, athletic concerns, and a bad back. Porter is the real the deal, the likes of which any team will take a chance on. Especially one likes ours that has the talent in place to really swing for the fences.

BTW...the Nets pick we gave the Cavs just got a little bit worse.
Or a little better if they guaranteed Porter the pick and he recovers well...

Edit: I'm assuming here that the pick is mid to low lottery as that is my expectation of it.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 07:32:20 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Yeah, when in in shape and thin Jared Sullinger

Can one really say Jared was thin in college, thinner perhaps but definitely no skinny.
I know you hate Sullinger but he was in pretty amazing shape at Ohio State and was thin and muscular with a big butt. He became fat and out of shape but you can't really try to suggest he was even close to that at OSU.

Fixed your nested quotes.

Also, Sullinger was 262 after his junior year in high school at the Amare camp, 286 after his senior year, 281 after his freshman year at OSU, and 268 at the draft combine.  He was never really in amazing shape.
Not sure pointing out his weight at various times gives any indication as to the athletic shape he was in. You can weigh a lot and still be in amazing shape. Sullinger was never going to be a 225 pound athletic freak of a power forward. But for his body type, he was in great shape at OSU.

His body-fat percentage was 10.7% at the combine, which was 5th-highest that year.  Given that he was 281 after his freshman season, and that it’s more likely the lost weight was predominantly fat instead of muscle (and maybe even was more than 13 pounds of fat if he gained muscle during that period), he was probably at an even higher body-fat percentage during his playing time at OSU.  While his skillset enabled him to be a stellar player at his bodytype, I strongly question whether he was ever in great shape, at least insofar as we’re comparing him to other top college players, much less pros.  The much slower-paced college game (35% fewer possessions) may have helped to mask his deficiencies.  They certainly did for me — I watched a lot of Sullinger in college and thought he’d be a terrific NBA player.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2017, 11:11:19 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

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The kid has all the talent you look for in a franchise prospect. I hope he fully recovers. The back, as we all know around here, is no joke, even for a youngin' like Porter.
This will also slide him into the 2019 draft that already includes RJ Barrett. Not a bad consolation prize if the LAL pick doesn't convey.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2017, 06:08:08 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Not sure pointing out his weight at various times gives any indication as to the athletic shape he was in. You can weigh a lot and still be in amazing shape. Sullinger was never going to be a 225 pound athletic freak of a power forward. But for his body type, he was in great shape at OSU.
There is a big difference between playing well and being in great shape, they are not always the same thing.

I live in Ohio, so it is safe to say I have seen more OSU games than you.   Here is some stuff from an article about his ball in middle school.

Quote
He was only in middle school when it started. The sting and the shame of the insults wounded him, but by the time he was a high school senior, Jared Sullinger had become immune, an expert at repressing the urge to respond.

"Hey Sullinger, you're a fat ass!"

"Hey Sullinger, get in shape!"

"Hey Sullinger, have another Big Mac!"

http://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/12545144/boston-celtics-forward-jared-sullinger-facing-heavy-burden

Quote
he was in pretty amazing shape at Ohio State

Oh, Really?

From  2011  When Sully was at OSU:

Quote
AKRON — Ohio State's Jared Sullinger just did not look like himself during the second day of the LeBron James Skills Academy for high school and college players at James A. Rhodes Arena. And without his pair of glowing orange gym shoes, Sullinger was hard to distinguish from the rest of the players at the camp.

"I weigh 275," he said. "I've lost 10 to 15 pounds since the end of the season. I want to get down to 255-260 and stay there."

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2011/07/sullinger_is_trimmer_and_slimm.html

Quote
I know you hate Sullinger.

I certainly did not care for Sullinger as a player but that does not make me wrong in this case,   Nor was I wrong about Sully in general but you know that don't you.....

I would not touch a guy with back problems unless 3-4 doctors could guarantee his health to me.  The guy could actually be in shape unlike Sully, and I still would be ultra cautious.   Backs are central to athletic movement and they take a ton of jarring and if they go bad so the whole person's game.  So Porter is a done deal for me, unless you can get take a shot at him later in the first maybe with our own pick of Memphis.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2017, 01:59:51 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I think he should focus on recovery first.

Best thing for him might be to stay for another year, prove his health, and dominate the collegiate scene for a year.  Then enter next year's draft as a top 5 pick.

In his current condition, without having played college ball, he's like mid lottery instead of top 5.

That's losing a lot of millions in signing bonus/salary slot/etc.

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2017, 07:30:17 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Not sure pointing out his weight at various times gives any indication as to the athletic shape he was in. You can weigh a lot and still be in amazing shape. Sullinger was never going to be a 225 pound athletic freak of a power forward. But for his body type, he was in great shape at OSU.
There is a big difference between playing well and being in great shape, they are not always the same thing.

I live in Ohio, so it is safe to say I have seen more OSU games than you.   Here is some stuff from an article about his ball in middle school.

Quote
He was only in middle school when it started. The sting and the shame of the insults wounded him, but by the time he was a high school senior, Jared Sullinger had become immune, an expert at repressing the urge to respond.

"Hey Sullinger, you're a fat ass!"

"Hey Sullinger, get in shape!"

"Hey Sullinger, have another Big Mac!"

http://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/12545144/boston-celtics-forward-jared-sullinger-facing-heavy-burden

Quote
he was in pretty amazing shape at Ohio State

Oh, Really?

From  2011  When Sully was at OSU:

Quote
AKRON — Ohio State's Jared Sullinger just did not look like himself during the second day of the LeBron James Skills Academy for high school and college players at James A. Rhodes Arena. And without his pair of glowing orange gym shoes, Sullinger was hard to distinguish from the rest of the players at the camp.

"I weigh 275," he said. "I've lost 10 to 15 pounds since the end of the season. I want to get down to 255-260 and stay there."

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2011/07/sullinger_is_trimmer_and_slimm.html

Quote
I know you hate Sullinger.

I certainly did not care for Sullinger as a player but that does not make me wrong in this case,   Nor was I wrong about Sully in general but you know that don't you.....

I would not touch a guy with back problems unless 3-4 doctors could guarantee his health to me.  The guy could actually be in shape unlike Sully, and I still would be ultra cautious.   Backs are central to athletic movement and they take a ton of jarring and if they go bad so the whole person's game.  So Porter is a done deal for me, unless you can get take a shot at him later in the first maybe with our own pick of Memphis.
So you would have passed on Embiid if he had fallen to #6?   

Re: Michael Porter Jr out for the year
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2017, 07:34:53 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I think he should focus on recovery first.

Best thing for him might be to stay for another year, prove his health, and dominate the collegiate scene for a year.  Then enter next year's draft as a top 5 pick.

In his current condition, without having played college ball, he's like mid lottery instead of top 5.

That's losing a lot of millions in signing bonus/salary slot/etc.
If he has good pre-draft workouts and is confident of being a mid-lottery pick, he needs to come out in the 2018 draft.  Can't risk another injury occurring.  Also it makes him 1 year early on getting his future contracts.