Author Topic: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?  (Read 90816 times)

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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #330 on: February 03, 2018, 02:51:13 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.

Saavy fans shouldn’t put much stock in RPM when comparing players. It’s not really a stat, or a composite. It’s a formula that adds variables like height and age, along with prior year’s performances.


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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #331 on: February 03, 2018, 03:05:39 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.

Saavy fans shouldn’t put much stock in RPM when comparing players. It’s not really a stat, or a composite. It’s a formula that adds variables like height and age, along with prior year’s performances.

Exactly

RPM isn't even meant to be a snapshot of a player's performance for the season. It's meant to be a prediction of future performance.

The problem is ESPN has intentionally, and rather irresponsibly I might add, allowed people to think otherwise.

If people are looking for a plus/minus stat that attempts to account for the quality of teammates, they'd be better of using basketball-reference's BPM. Although, even that stat is sketchy, in my opinion.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #332 on: February 03, 2018, 03:56:54 PM »

Offline colincb

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Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 04:10:31 PM by colincb »

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #333 on: February 04, 2018, 04:32:00 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Savvy fans noticed that Rozier's advanced stats (particularly RPM) indicated he had surpassed Marcus Smart a while ago, but his minutes weren't commensurate with his potential to contribute.  I believe there have been several threads on the topic. 

We're not seeing a new Terry, we're just seeing what he can do when he's put in a position to succeed instead of being the team's 4th guard.
I don't think any savvy fans used a stat generated by an secret formula which rates Tyus Jones as the 4th best pg in the league.

Savvy fans might have used one of RPM's cousins like RAPM or adjusted +/-  but they definitely didnt use basketball version of Total QBR.
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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #334 on: February 04, 2018, 05:21:22 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #335 on: February 04, 2018, 05:28:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Rozier is going nowhere fast.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #336 on: February 04, 2018, 05:31:23 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Rozier is going nowhere fast.

Agreed, but his play influences their decision on Marcus Smart!

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #337 on: February 04, 2018, 07:14:44 PM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams, The Portable John Adams
ok fine

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #338 on: February 04, 2018, 07:29:08 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Keep building up that trade value! Crimson stallion (sp?) must be loving this.  :)
Rozier is going nowhere fast.

Trade deadline next season. Danny ain't paying him if he holds the value he just built.

Now he's had a come-back-to-earth statistically game, Kyrie will be back soon, his value will normalize. BUt it won't go back to where it was.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #339 on: February 04, 2018, 10:29:45 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams, The Portable John Adams

Those are all good points, and I like Rozier as a player, but stats don't tell the whole story and it is telling that Brad uses Smart over Terry. In the end they may keep Terry over Marcus, but Marcus helps the team despite his bad shooting.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #340 on: February 04, 2018, 11:00:54 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Rozier looks like the future.  He stepped up big time after Kyrie went down.

I believe Rozier's emergence is why DA deems Smart expendable for the right trade, ie a 1st round draft choice.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #341 on: February 05, 2018, 01:22:06 AM »

Offline feckless

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Rozier’s Statistical Advantages
2P%
3P%
eFG%
FT%
Offensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Defensive Rebounding per 36 Minutes
Steals per 36 Minutes
Turnovers per 36 Minutes
Personal fouls per 36 Minutes
Points per 36 Minutes
Offensive Rating
Defensive Rating
PER
Total Shooting%
Offensive Rebounding%
Defensive Rebounding%
Steal%
Turnover%
Assists to Turnover Ratio
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares/48
Offensive Box +/-
Defensive Box +/-
Offensive Real +/-
Defensive Real +/-
VORP

Smart’s Statistical Advantages
Assists per 36 Minutes
Blocks per 36 Minutes
Assist%
Block%
FTs Earned per FGA%

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams, The Portable John Adams

Those are all good points, and I like Rozier as a player, but stats don't tell the whole story and it is telling that Brad uses Smart over Terry. In the end they may keep Terry over Marcus, but Marcus helps the team despite his bad shooting.

I think it should be Brad used to use Smart over Rozier.  I would be shocked if Brad hasn't moved Terry ahead of Marcus for running the offense.  Even with  the weaker performance against Portland, Rozier hit some important shots, continued to do a great job advancing the ball, directed the offense well  and went against a high level set of guards in Lillard and McCollum and the C's got the win.  So in 3 games as the starting point Rozier has a triple double, a 30 point game and a win against an elite, top tier point guard.  Not too shabby.  Smart picked a bad time to be stupid.  He could have had this opportunity to shine.
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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #342 on: February 05, 2018, 02:38:52 AM »

Offline byennie

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What I think this has shown is that Rozier is most valuable as our true backup PG, with the ball in his hands. Smart should be asked to finally just play a role: defensive stopper.

Feels like a variation on Eric Bledsoe back in the day. Terry isn't a great passer, but he:

1) Plays above average defense and can guard two positions well
2) Rebounds at the highest level for a PG
3) Is a viable 15ppg scorer with the ball in his hands
4) Has an excellent low turnover rate
5) Passes well enough to keep the offense flowing

He might not be a star (yet), but that's a lot of useful tools and not a lot of real weaknesses.

~15/6/4 with a 3:1 turnover ratio and good defense if a team gave him the keys I think... not too shabby at all.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #343 on: February 05, 2018, 05:46:44 AM »

Offline Androslav

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His mom and dad will always be his fans, so there will always be some T-Roz fans.
I agree that we can close this thread.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #344 on: February 07, 2018, 07:09:04 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Rozay lost his Adidas deal for wearing Nikes during warm-ups.

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/06/adidas-terminated-terry-rozier-contract-wearing-nikes?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si


The deal was worth $300k over 3 years.  Maybe the Louisville scandal didn't help matters.  But on the real, TR has far outgrown Adidas' small change. 
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