Author Topic: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?  (Read 90903 times)

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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #210 on: December 18, 2017, 11:33:54 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.
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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #211 on: December 19, 2017, 12:05:54 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.

Why is it irrational confidence? He made a pretty confident game winning play today.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #212 on: December 19, 2017, 01:17:08 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.

I don't get the criticisms. 

Every win related advanced metric that I've seen indicates that Terry Rozier has a positive impact on this team's ability to win games on BOTH ends of the court:

* Defensive RPM: +0.36
* Offensive RPM: +0.84
* Overall RPM: +1.20 (15th among PG)
* Off Rating: 106
* Def Rating: 102
* Net Rating: +4
* Box Plus Minus: +0.7
* VORP: +0.5
* WS: +1.8
* WS/48: 0.116

There are very few NBA PG's who measure this well in advanced metrics at the age of 23 - especially for somebody who's had such a limited role since entering the league.

As for the criticisms that he hasn't adjusted well to being a role player - on what basis?  Is he wreckless with the ball?  Does he play too much hero ball?  Does he commit stupid fouls? 

The answer to all of the above is not really, no. 

His turnover rate is historically low for a PG (Rozier spends 75% of his minutes at PG) and primary ball handler.  So far this year, in 30 games, he has committed only 4 turnovers as a result of bad passes and only 9 as a result of lost balls.  That's 13 turnovers from bad passes and loose handles combined, not even one every second game.  So it's clear he doesn't play out of control or beyond his ability. 

Personal fouls?  Only 2.1 Per 36 minutes.  That indicates that he's really quite disciplined not only on offense, but also on defence - and that's despite the fact that he is very active (and even quite aggressive) on defence.

Too much hero ball?  If there was any criticism you could make for Rozier this would be it, and I'm not denying that his 38% FG percentage could use some improvement.  But biggest reason for that is not due to poor shot selection.  Rozier is shooting 53% from 10-16 feet, a somewhat respectable 37% from outside 16 feet, and 36% from three.  His jumper has actually been pretty darn good. 

His poor FG% is largely the result of his struggles finishing around the basket - he's shooting only 42% inside 3 feet.  So ironically the shots he's struggling most with are not the difficult ones, but the easy ones.

Rozier is only 23 years old, and prior to this season he had averaged 13.9 MPG over a total of 113 games for his entire NBA career.  He's been given very few opportunities to play meaningful minutes up until this season, so if the only major weakness in his game is his ability to finish at the basket - I'm not especially concerned about that.  How long did it take Avery Bradley to become a half capable finisher around the basket?  And yet last season he shot over 60% inside 3 feet.

What I'm more conscious of is the fact that this is practically his second year (given he pretty much didn't play his rookie year) and already he's out there proving that he can make a positive impact on the win column on both ends of the court. 

Already he's showing flashes of a quality jumpshot, and flashes of being able to carry the team in short bursts offensively. 

Already he's showing an ability to impact the game with his length, athleticism and anticipation on the defensive end of the court.

Already he's proving, at 6'2", to be one of the best rebounding guards in the league.   

Already he's proving, as a 23 year old with very little NBA experience, that he is a big time clutch performer who lives for the big moments.

There aren't many young point guards in the NBA who have shown all of those things as early in their career (experience wise) as Rozier is.  Avery Bradley was a huge impact player for this team for years, and yet Rozier has more upside/potential then Bradley in every just about every area of the game (bar defence - maybe).

Lets give this kid a chance.  He has fire in his heart and ice in his veins - he already shows huge promise in so many areas that cannot be taught (clutch play, defensive instincts, toughness, rebounding instincts, hustle, desire to win, athleticism, length, body control).  All he needs is experience - with the right opportunities and under the right teacher (which he has in Stevens) this kid could become a special player.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 01:24:03 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #213 on: December 19, 2017, 01:37:32 AM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #214 on: December 19, 2017, 01:46:45 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

Exactly - kid has pretty much lived in the shadows his entire career.

So many people have Rozier misunderstood in such a massive way.  He was never marketed a an some big time offensive stud.  Like Smart, Rozier was best known for his defence and his intangibles (toughness, motor, work ethic, leadership).  He became the offensive focal point of his Louisville team pretty much by default, because there was pretty much nobody else on the team who was really all that gifted, offensively.  He essentially had to learn on the fly how to run an offense, and how to carry an offense.

People seem to think he's an Allen Iverson type - some hotshot kid who was all about jacking shots.  That wasn't really Rozier's thing.  He just got forced into that role because SOMEBODY on that team had to score.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #215 on: December 19, 2017, 01:55:50 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

And had an amazing sophomore season at PG.  He won the Wooden Award. 

crimson, he took care of the ball and had poor shot selection in college, too.  I'm not saying he sucks, -- I'm a fan.  But I think he approaches the game with an alpha mindset that has the potential to limit his growth.  Developing the skills and bball IQ to be a solid role player would probably benefit both him and the Celtics.

edit: It'd take a lot of alcohol to compare him to Iverson.  His value at the time of the draft was well-documented.  You're basically making the argument for me -- that he's a role player -- right?  And could be a very good one.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 02:18:34 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #216 on: December 19, 2017, 07:18:45 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Can we admit that if Smart had that night people would be talking about how Smart makes winning plays and we need to give him a ton of money for a long time?

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #217 on: December 19, 2017, 09:48:04 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Good morning, Rozier fans  8)

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #218 on: December 19, 2017, 10:05:27 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I listened to the Pacers broadcast of the game last night, and they said that CBS has said that Rozier is a starting quality guard in our league. Does anyone have a source on that?

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #219 on: December 19, 2017, 10:43:03 AM »

Offline Chris22

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I listened to the Pacers broadcast of the game last night, and they said that CBS has said that Rozier is a starting quality guard in our league. Does anyone have a source on that?

I heard that too, but Celtic fans would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills at the game.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #220 on: December 19, 2017, 10:54:16 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

And had an amazing sophomore season at PG.  He won the Wooden Award. 

crimson, he took care of the ball and had poor shot selection in college, too.  I'm not saying he sucks, -- I'm a fan.  But I think he approaches the game with an alpha mindset that has the potential to limit his growth.  Developing the skills and bball IQ to be a solid role player would probably benefit both him and the Celtics.

edit: It'd take a lot of alcohol to compare him to Iverson.  His value at the time of the draft was well-documented.  You're basically making the argument for me -- that he's a role player -- right?  And could be a very good one.

Which Wooden award did he win? When I looked it up, I saw that he was a late season top 20 Wooden award list guy.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #221 on: December 19, 2017, 02:37:07 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He was a role player at Louisville his freshman year, playing behind Chris Jones and Russ Smith. Wasn't on any mock drafts until Summer 2014 when he broke out.

And had an amazing sophomore season at PG.  He won the Wooden Award. 

crimson, he took care of the ball and had poor shot selection in college, too.

He didn't win anything. Plus, that 14-15 Louisville team was painfully awful on offense. That was my least favorite team since the late 90's. Rozier and Montrezl had to take bad contested shots with the team's horrible shooting and the teams focused on both of them. The only reason they made the EE despite their awful shooting (aside from an extremely favorable draw) was because they had two NBA level talents. Nearly all teams to have made a deep tourney run with that terrible shooting have had to overcome it with multiple NBA talents. It was hardly an amazing season aside from his volume scoring. Also, I haven't seen the "irrational confidence" you speak of. I recall him losing confidence and passing up open shots when his shot was off. It would affect his defense too.

He's a cheap bench player and on his rookie salary I have no problems with him. Also, Pitino played two PGs, and Chris Jones was the other PG during 2014-15 for most of the year before getting dismissed.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #222 on: December 19, 2017, 02:51:15 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I listened to the Pacers broadcast of the game last night, and they said that CBS has said that Rozier is a starting quality guard in our league. Does anyone have a source on that?

I heard that too, but Celtic fans would complain if you gave out ten dollar bills at the game.

lol. Nice.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #223 on: December 19, 2017, 03:04:19 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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Rozier is one of those dudes that can't make the adjustment from being 'the man' to a role player in the big leagues.  Makes him entertaining as heck to watch imo, but probably doesn't bode well for his future.

Didn't catch his heroics tonight outside of the highlight, but I think it fits well with this perspective.

He's 23. I'm going to be open minded with him.

Does your intuition tell you otherwise? He's similar to the many others before him that had the irrational confidence gene.  He hasn't adapted well to his role player status in the NBA, but he surprises you with big time plays from time to time.  My other hot take has been: "Rozier's most endearing quality is his ability to hit ill-advised shots." 

And yes, he also happens to be 23 years old.  Doesn't make any of the above less true.

I don't get the criticisms. 

Every win related advanced metric that I've seen indicates that Terry Rozier has a positive impact on this team's ability to win games on BOTH ends of the court:

* Defensive RPM: +0.36
* Offensive RPM: +0.84
* Overall RPM: +1.20 (15th among PG)
* Off Rating: 106
* Def Rating: 102
* Net Rating: +4
* Box Plus Minus: +0.7
* VORP: +0.5
* WS: +1.8
* WS/48: 0.116

There are very few NBA PG's who measure this well in advanced metrics at the age of 23 - especially for somebody who's had such a limited role since entering the league.

As for the criticisms that he hasn't adjusted well to being a role player - on what basis?  Is he wreckless with the ball?  Does he play too much hero ball?  Does he commit stupid fouls? 

The answer to all of the above is not really, no. 

His turnover rate is historically low for a PG (Rozier spends 75% of his minutes at PG) and primary ball handler.  So far this year, in 30 games, he has committed only 4 turnovers as a result of bad passes and only 9 as a result of lost balls.  That's 13 turnovers from bad passes and loose handles combined, not even one every second game.  So it's clear he doesn't play out of control or beyond his ability. 

Personal fouls?  Only 2.1 Per 36 minutes.  That indicates that he's really quite disciplined not only on offense, but also on defence - and that's despite the fact that he is very active (and even quite aggressive) on defence.

Too much hero ball?  If there was any criticism you could make for Rozier this would be it, and I'm not denying that his 38% FG percentage could use some improvement.  But biggest reason for that is not due to poor shot selection.  Rozier is shooting 53% from 10-16 feet, a somewhat respectable 37% from outside 16 feet, and 36% from three.  His jumper has actually been pretty darn good. 

His poor FG% is largely the result of his struggles finishing around the basket - he's shooting only 42% inside 3 feet.  So ironically the shots he's struggling most with are not the difficult ones, but the easy ones.

Rozier is only 23 years old, and prior to this season he had averaged 13.9 MPG over a total of 113 games for his entire NBA career.  He's been given very few opportunities to play meaningful minutes up until this season, so if the only major weakness in his game is his ability to finish at the basket - I'm not especially concerned about that.  How long did it take Avery Bradley to become a half capable finisher around the basket?  And yet last season he shot over 60% inside 3 feet.

What I'm more conscious of is the fact that this is practically his second year (given he pretty much didn't play his rookie year) and already he's out there proving that he can make a positive impact on the win column on both ends of the court. 

Already he's showing flashes of a quality jumpshot, and flashes of being able to carry the team in short bursts offensively. 

Already he's showing an ability to impact the game with his length, athleticism and anticipation on the defensive end of the court.

Already he's proving, at 6'2", to be one of the best rebounding guards in the league.   

Already he's proving, as a 23 year old with very little NBA experience, that he is a big time clutch performer who lives for the big moments.

There aren't many young point guards in the NBA who have shown all of those things as early in their career (experience wise) as Rozier is.  Avery Bradley was a huge impact player for this team for years, and yet Rozier has more upside/potential then Bradley in every just about every area of the game (bar defence - maybe).

Lets give this kid a chance.  He has fire in his heart and ice in his veins - he already shows huge promise in so many areas that cannot be taught (clutch play, defensive instincts, toughness, rebounding instincts, hustle, desire to win, athleticism, length, body control).  All he needs is experience - with the right opportunities and under the right teacher (which he has in Stevens) this kid could become a special player.

Rozier will be the reason the C's let Smart go if he gets overpaid.  Those minutes will go to Rozier.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #224 on: January 03, 2018, 10:05:56 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Nope. Trade That Bum!

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