Author Topic: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?  (Read 90833 times)

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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #180 on: November 26, 2017, 02:17:46 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #181 on: November 26, 2017, 02:23:18 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #182 on: November 26, 2017, 02:29:24 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #183 on: November 26, 2017, 04:06:07 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.
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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #184 on: November 26, 2017, 05:28:51 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.

As I've said, context matters. A lot.

Delonte West was the PG (sometimes SG) for a bad team, with 30+ minutes playing and the freedom to do many things. Rozier is playing for a PO team (in fact, a number 1 seed) limited minutes and he feels he has to do many things in so little time, which is not good for his game, very quick and sometimes reckless. Hopefully, he'll keep improving but the tools are there: extremely high athleticism, vertical jump, instinct and outside scoring. He also has the problem of playing a lot of minutes with Smart, which doesn't attract defenses to free him.

I feel Rozier's impact on the game is higher than Delonte and it will be even better as the season advances. Being the 7th-8th man on a 18-3 team (AND one of only three players in all 21 games) means something, at least for me.

BTW, I liked Delonte a lot. After his two first seasons, I thought he could be a good starter with around 17 ppg, 6 rpg and 7 apg for many years. Unfortunately, it wasn't so.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #185 on: November 26, 2017, 05:51:01 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.

As I've said, context matters. A lot.

Delonte West was the PG (sometimes SG) for a bad team, with 30+ minutes playing and the freedom to do many things. Rozier is playing for a PO team (in fact, a number 1 seed) limited minutes and he feels he has to do many things in so little time, which is not good for his game, very quick and sometimes reckless. Hopefully, he'll keep improving but the tools are there: extremely high athleticism, vertical jump, instinct and outside scoring. He also has the problem of playing a lot of minutes with Smart, which doesn't attract defenses to free him.

I feel Rozier's impact on the game is higher than Delonte and it will be even better as the season advances. Being the 7th-8th man on a 18-3 team (AND one of only three players in all 21 games) means something, at least for me.

BTW, I liked Delonte a lot. After his two first seasons, I thought he could be a good starter with around 17 ppg, 6 rpg and 7 apg for many years. Unfortunately, it wasn't so.

You mean to tell me you think Rozier would shoot a higher percentage while taking more shots, with a higher degree of difficulty due to playing next to worse teammates?

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #186 on: November 26, 2017, 05:56:39 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Year 2 Delonte was putting up 12/5/4 as a starter, with 49/38/85 splits and played above average defense. He was a legitimate PG/SG combo guard.

Rozier is shooting a career high 38% in Year 3 and can't play the point. He's a better rebounder and more athletic.

I really hope Rozier keeps improving, and it's not like the rest of Delonte's career went according to plan, but if you could trade "right now" Rozer for Year 2/3 Delonte, you do it in a heartbeat.

Nope. Wouldn't swap Rozier for Young Delonte.

Rozier will improve, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

And he has something Delonte never did:  two hands.
That's answering a different question, though, isn't it? You'd keep Rozier because you feel confident that Rozier will improve and, eventually, be better than Delonte was. But the debate going on was about whether or not Rozier is now better than Delonte West was.

And if I have the choice between 2017 Rozier and 2006 Delonte for one game or one season, I would absolutely take Delonte and I don't know what the argument for Rozier would even be.

As I've said, context matters. A lot.

Delonte West was the PG (sometimes SG) for a bad team, with 30+ minutes playing and the freedom to do many things. Rozier is playing for a PO team (in fact, a number 1 seed) limited minutes and he feels he has to do many things in so little time, which is not good for his game, very quick and sometimes reckless. Hopefully, he'll keep improving but the tools are there: extremely high athleticism, vertical jump, instinct and outside scoring. He also has the problem of playing a lot of minutes with Smart, which doesn't attract defenses to free him.

I feel Rozier's impact on the game is higher than Delonte and it will be even better as the season advances. Being the 7th-8th man on a 18-3 team (AND one of only three players in all 21 games) means something, at least for me.

BTW, I liked Delonte a lot. After his two first seasons, I thought he could be a good starter with around 17 ppg, 6 rpg and 7 apg for many years. Unfortunately, it wasn't so.

You mean to tell me you think Rozier would shoot a higher percentage while taking more shots, with a higher degree of difficulty due to playing next to worse teammates?

We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #187 on: November 26, 2017, 06:09:29 PM »

Offline byennie

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We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

His per-30 right now is about 12/6/3 on 38% shooting. I find it extremely unlikely that a guy goes from 12/6/3 to 18/8/6 by playing more against starters. There's very little chance he suddenly starts dishing out 6 assist every night, or scores 50% more points per minute when he's never shot 40% at the current pace. You even have his rebounds jacked up like he can turn it on and grab 30% more of those.

Hey, it's *possible*, but you're basically saying he'd immediately become a much different player just by being on a bad team, and it doesn't usually work that way.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #188 on: November 26, 2017, 06:24:20 PM »

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We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

His per-30 right now is about 12/6/3 on 38% shooting. I find it extremely unlikely that a guy goes from 12/6/3 to 18/8/6 by playing more against starters. There's very little chance he suddenly starts dishing out 6 assist every night, or scores 50% more points per minute when he's never shot 40% at the current pace. You even have his rebounds jacked up like he can turn it on and grab 30% more of those.

Hey, it's *possible*, but you're basically saying he'd immediately become a much different player just by being on a bad team, and it doesn't usually work that way.

Yeah, 18/8/6 is borderline all-star territory. It’s an odd projection to assume he’d be averaging his season high in rebounds, his season high in assists, and more points than he’s scored in all but one game this season.

He’s now in his third season and he hasn’t had a single game with more than 6 assists, and only once in his career has he grabbed more than 8 rebounds or had more than 18 points.


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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #189 on: November 26, 2017, 06:40:53 PM »

Offline byennie

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Yeah, 18/8/6 is borderline all-star territory. It’s an odd projection to assume he’d be averaging his season high in rebounds, his season high in assists, and more points than he’s scored in all but one game this season.

He’s now in his third season and he hasn’t had a single game with more than 6 assists, and only once in his career has he grabbed more than 8 rebounds or had more than 18 points.

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to be bullish on Rozier. I really hope his recent couple of games indicate that he could be more like a 45/35/80 guy, and play good defense. That would be fantastic.

But, *if* he did that, it's more like 15/6/3, and that's after making a big leap.

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #190 on: November 26, 2017, 06:47:08 PM »

Offline Big333223

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We can't know that. Maybe not, or maybe he would benefit of playing without pressure and being kept on the court for longer stints.

What I firmly believe is that he would average about 18/8/6 if he played 30 minutes per game in a bad team.

His per-30 right now is about 12/6/3 on 38% shooting. I find it extremely unlikely that a guy goes from 12/6/3 to 18/8/6 by playing more against starters. There's very little chance he suddenly starts dishing out 6 assist every night, or scores 50% more points per minute when he's never shot 40% at the current pace. You even have his rebounds jacked up like he can turn it on and grab 30% more of those.

Hey, it's *possible*, but you're basically saying he'd immediately become a much different player just by being on a bad team, and it doesn't usually work that way.

Yeah, 18/8/6 is borderline all-star territory. It’s an odd projection to assume he’d be averaging his season high in rebounds, his season high in assists, and more points than he’s scored in all but one game this season.

He’s now in his third season and he hasn’t had a single game with more than 6 assists, and only once in his career has he grabbed more than 8 rebounds or had more than 18 points.
I'll just add to this by pointing out that Delonte averaged about 12/3.5/3 in more than 33 minutes a game as the full time starting SG for the 66-win Cavaliers in '09 (while shooting 46/40/83). So the argument that Delonte's numbers were inflating because he was playing on a bad team don't really hold up. We saw what he could do given an opportunity to play a role on a good team.

His problems were not his ability to play basketball, sadly.
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Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #191 on: November 26, 2017, 11:02:30 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Ultimately if you’re a T-Ro fan you believe in the future but enjoy the present, even the misses. Cuz you believe that the overall contribution is more than the box score

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #192 on: November 27, 2017, 08:04:53 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Ultimately if you’re a T-Ro fan you believe in the future but enjoy the present, even the misses. Cuz you believe that the overall contribution is more than the box score

This. TP

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #193 on: November 27, 2017, 10:06:38 AM »

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I like him a lot. 

Re: Are there any Terry Rozier fans left?
« Reply #194 on: November 27, 2017, 07:43:58 PM »

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Ultimately if you’re a T-Ro fan you believe in the future but enjoy the present, even the misses. Cuz you believe that the overall contribution is more than the box score

Indeed, indeed! TP