Author Topic: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast  (Read 2305 times)

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Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 06:21:00 PM »

Offline 18isGREATERthan72

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I view Jaylen as the player with a higher potential ceiling, and Tatum with a much higher floor.

Either way it's a great problem to have.  These guys are so similar, and yet different enough that they can coexist and I love it.  I love the "Fire and Ice" nickname someone coined for them.  Jaylen plays with fire and intensity, and Jayson plays with ice in his veins.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2017, 06:23:31 PM »

Offline azzenfrost

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This is like "first world problems". Whatever the outcome, it's good for the C's.
I moved the cheese.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2017, 06:24:44 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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yes not so fast.... we won't know for sure until next season

What month, so I can mark the calendar?

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2017, 07:17:04 PM »

Offline Greyman

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This is like "first world problems". Whatever the outcome, it's good for the C's.

Yes. Just happy they are both Celtics and hope we are debating their merits still in 10 years time under the heading 'Who contributed most to all the recent championships'.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2017, 07:27:48 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I think it's a tossup right now due to Jaylen's stunted development.

Tatum had a great college coach/teacher/program at Duke, whereas Jaylen and Rabb and Jabari Bird  played for a coach, Cuonzo Martin, who sucked. They basically lost valuable developmental years, 1,2 and 3 respectively due to this guy and didn't come close to maximizing their potential in college.

Maybe we were lucky that Martin sucked so badly and wasn't able to best utilize the many talented players he had. Maybe Jaylen would never have slipped to us had he played for a decent coach/system, and his true abilities were brought out.
TP.  Coach Martin is a great recruiter, but that is it right now.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2017, 07:35:23 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I think it's a tossup right now due to Jaylen's stunted development.

Tatum had a great college coach/teacher/program at Duke, whereas Jaylen and Rabb and Jabari Bird  played for a coach, Cuonzo Martin, who sucked. They basically lost valuable developmental years, 1,2 and 3 respectively due to this guy and didn't come close to maximizing their potential in college.

Maybe we were lucky that Martin sucked so badly and wasn't able to best utilize the many talented players he had. Maybe Jaylen would never have slipped to us had he played for a decent coach/system, and his true abilities were brought out.
TP.  Coach Martin is a great recruiter, but that is it right now.

Yeah.  Cal is one of the more disappointing programs out there considering his ability to get talent.  I think Jabari Bird would have gone before 56 with a better coach as well.  He clearly has an NBA future ahead of him ó it was apparent in summer league.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2017, 07:45:09 PM »

Offline ausbacker

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Personally, I think it's great we're debating the talent of young Celtics players. It means the FO is hitting in the draft.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2017, 08:26:50 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Both guys have some insane potential, and they both display it pretty clearly in glimpses and spurts during games. Defensively they have both bought in to the team philosophy, and they both are unselfish offensive players at this point in their career.

I think the main separating factor between them is the raw athleticism that Jaylen has, that simply cannot be taught. Not that Tatum is a slouch, and he is only 19; with some strength and conditioning coaching, the dude could possibly catch up to Brown. But Brown also has room to grow and develop.

Brown needs to work on his footwork, jumpshot (particularly off the dribble), and his handle against defenders playing tight on him. I think he has the athletic ability and has clearly made a drastic leap in controlling and harnessing his athleticism, to improve the handle and the footwork. The jumpshot confidence has made an obvious leap, so it's really just developing that rythym or "killer instinct". If he can do that, he has the potential to be about 85-90% of what made Kobe great. I actually wish he would reach out to Kobe and get him to mentor him, similar to Lebron with Greek Freak.

Tatum clearly has the more polished offensive game. Even though he has nowhere near the hangtime or leaping ability of Brown, I actually trust Tatum to finish at the rim, where Jaylen just kind of tries to rule like Dominique Wilkins, but he is still too young/timid to just own people who are athletically inferior. The lateral quickness is something I don't know if Tatum will ever catch up to Brown on, but his basketball IQ allows him to cover this "weakness".

Offensive trajectory for Tatum seems more tangible and linear, and we can visualize where he ends up. If he grows and bulks up, he will be a contributor.

I think Brown has the higher defensive trajectory, and really his determination and confidence will determine if he is the 1A to Tatums 1B in the future for this team.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 08:35:58 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Heard one of the announcers in a recent game say that Jaylen / Tatum is part of our future core.

I'm a believer.
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Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2017, 08:46:42 PM »

Offline blink

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I view Jaylen as the player with a higher potential ceiling, and Tatum with a much higher floor.


This is exactly how I feel about it.  Jaylen has a higher ceiling than Tatum, but Tatum's floor is better than Jaylen's.  Sky's the limit for Jaylen if he can improve his handle, ability to shoot off the bounce, and solve the ft issue.  Tatum I forsee a long steady improvement every year into at least an occasional all star player.  Brown is the type of player if he figures it out could be one of the best two way players in the league.

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2017, 09:20:29 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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This is like "first world problems". Whatever the outcome, it's good for the C's.

Yeah, theyíre both farther along than I expected theyíd be this year. Theyíve both got a ton of room for growth; either or both could be a legit star.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
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Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2017, 09:41:19 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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This is like "first world problems". Whatever the outcome, it's good for the C's.

Yeah, theyíre both farther along than I expected theyíd be this year. Theyíve both got a ton of room for growth; either or both could be a legit star.
the bright side is we could have ended up with bender and Jackson but we didnít. The suns can enjoy that haha

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2017, 10:02:44 PM »

Offline colincb

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Both have been very impressive with Brown being a candidate for MIP and Tatum for ROY in most years. Particularly on defense they have unbelievable length that that contributed greatly to the C's defensive success. The defense is real and defense travels well in the playoffs. Their offense is a work in progress, but it's far ahead of expectations.
WH Weighing Plans For Private Spies To Counter ďDeep StateĒ Enemies

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2017, 10:38:45 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I think it's a tossup right now due to Jaylen's stunted development.

Tatum had a great college coach/teacher/program at Duke, whereas Jaylen and Rabb and Jabari Bird  played for a coach, Cuonzo Martin, who sucked. They basically lost valuable developmental years, 1,2 and 3 respectively due to this guy and didn't come close to maximizing their potential in college.

Maybe we were lucky that Martin sucked so badly and wasn't able to best utilize the many talented players he had. Maybe Jaylen would never have slipped to us had he played for a decent coach/system, and his true abilities were brought out.

I am a huge Jaylen fan and don't necessarily disagree with your comment about development (although one and dones often never have the desire to develop much in college), but Jaylen went #3 - I don't exactly think he 'slipped' to us at that draft slot. If anything, Danny and Brad saw through his pedestrian freshman year and were able to snag him up before anybody else could. I just don't think he had any chance of ever before Simmons/Ingram.

I agree with the first bolden sentence. Danny went out to see Jaylen in a PAC-12 game vs Arizona in Phoenix. He didn't exactly light it up, but Bill Walton was doing the color commentary on the game (and he must've been doing some of those peyote buttons from the dessert because he was tripping, I mean REALLY high) and he was anointing Jaylen as the second coming and implying that Danny didn't feel differently, despite the lackluster performance.

The last sentence I'm not so sure about.

If Jaylen had played in a better program (esp. Duke where he may have outshone Ingram, or Arizona, or Kentucky or UNC or maybe even with the high-flyers at Louisville) he may have jumped over Ingram and the Fakers could have taken him. He was the most explosive athlete at the top of that draft.

Danny made a great pick, no question, especially in light of all the boos that Jaylens selection elicited from the "faithful" on draft night. (And, I'll admit, I was one of the doubters, given how many PAC-12 games I watched, and how many times Jaylen didn't impress.)

Re: Tatumís ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2017, 10:48:02 PM »

Offline CelticsJG

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I think it's a tossup right now due to Jaylen's stunted development.

Tatum had a great college coach/teacher/program at Duke, whereas Jaylen and Rabb and Jabari Bird  played for a coach, Cuonzo Martin, who sucked. They basically lost valuable developmental years, 1,2 and 3 respectively due to this guy and didn't come close to maximizing their potential in college.

Maybe we were lucky that Martin sucked so badly and wasn't able to best utilize the many talented players he had. Maybe Jaylen would never have slipped to us had he played for a decent coach/system, and his true abilities were brought out.

Jaylen development was never stunted.