Poll

How many all stars will the Celtics have?

1
6 (9.2%)
2
39 (60%)
3
17 (26.2%)
4
2 (3.1%)
5+
1 (1.5%)

Total Members Voted: 65

Author Topic: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)  (Read 1867 times)

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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2017, 04:28:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The 13/14 Spurs won the NBA championship and were the only 60+ win team (62).  They only had Parker make the all star team. 

This notion that the best team has to have multiple all stars is just silly.  Sure it happens all the time because the best team is often the best team because they have great players, but it certainly isn't some given.

Again you are coming with examples which are not what I am talking about. The Thunder were 37-11 in 2014 when the all stars were announced. The spurs had a worst record at 37-13. Neither team was dominating the conference. 

I am already acknowledged to you that if the Celtics don't have the best record by a substantial margin I don't think we will get extra all-stars. However, we have seen time and time again that when a team is running away with their conference and the all-stars are announced they are rewarded for it. The Hawks from a few years ago are a very clear example of this. Thompson has gotten in when some other players had better numbers than him cause the Warriors were dominating the regular season. This isn't ground breaking and you have picked a strange hill to die on. 

You have come up with one example of this from 8 seasons ago where the all star was one of the greatest to ever play the game and was dominating the league. Maybe there is one other time of this in the past 10 seasons

Its extremely uncommon and hardly a silly notion.
The Thunder only had 1 all star that year also.  The Spurs had 1 that year.  So the two best teams in the West, including the future champion, had 2 all stars between them. 

and I'm certainly not suggesting Horford won't make it, I just don't think it is a given.  There are a lot of very strong players in the frontcourt in the East, many of which have significantly better numbers than Horford. 

Edit: BTW, the 15/16 Cavs only had 1 all star also.  They had a 3 game lead on Toronto around the all star announcements towards the end of January.  And while 3 games isn't necessarily running away with a conference, everyone knew Cleveland was coming out of the East that year.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 04:34:02 PM by Moranis »
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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2017, 04:49:50 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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The 13/14 Spurs won the NBA championship and were the only 60+ win team (62).  They only had Parker make the all star team. 

This notion that the best team has to have multiple all stars is just silly.  Sure it happens all the time because the best team is often the best team because they have great players, but it certainly isn't some given.

Again you are coming with examples which are not what I am talking about. The Thunder were 37-11 in 2014 when the all stars were announced. The spurs had a worst record at 37-13. Neither team was dominating the conference. 

I am already acknowledged to you that if the Celtics don't have the best record by a substantial margin I don't think we will get extra all-stars. However, we have seen time and time again that when a team is running away with their conference and the all-stars are announced they are rewarded for it. The Hawks from a few years ago are a very clear example of this. Thompson has gotten in when some other players had better numbers than him cause the Warriors were dominating the regular season. This isn't ground breaking and you have picked a strange hill to die on. 

You have come up with one example of this from 8 seasons ago where the all star was one of the greatest to ever play the game and was dominating the league. Maybe there is one other time of this in the past 10 seasons

Its extremely uncommon and hardly a silly notion.
The Thunder only had 1 all star that year also.  The Spurs had 1 that year.  So the two best teams in the West, including the future champion, had 2 all stars between them.

and I'm certainly not suggesting Horford won't make it, I just don't think it is a given.  There are a lot of very strong players in the frontcourt in the East, many of which have significantly better numbers than Horford. 

Edit: BTW, the 15/16 Cavs only had 1 all star also.  They had a 3 game lead on Toronto around the all star announcements towards the end of January.  And while 3 games isn't necessarily running away with a conference, everyone knew Cleveland was coming out of the East that year.

The first point you are again making my point for me. The spurs and Thunder had nearly identical records and thus neither team was rewarded for it. If we are somehow up 1 game on Toronto or worse I think we will only get the 1 all star most likely

Regarding Cleveland Irving didn't make the all-star game that year because he was injured most of the first half right? And he was clearly their second player. I will agree if Horford misses the next 20 games he probably wont make it. Is that your point?

Otherwise we have seen time and time again where a team was running away with their conference (Hawks, Warriors in recent years). Heck we even benefited from this ourselves the last time we were running away with the conference (Allen got added in 2008 to the all star game despite averaging a fairly pedestrian 17 points a game on 45% shooting almost certainly beacuse of the Celtics dominant record after Garnett and Piece had already made it. KG didn't play due to injury). 


Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2017, 07:25:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Teams that run away with conferences have great players. Great players make all star teams.  In weird seasons where a team with just 1 great player ran away from the conference that team only had 1 all star.
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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2017, 07:51:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Teams that run away with conferences have great players. Great players make all star teams.  In weird seasons where a team with just 1 great player ran away from the conference that team only had 1 all star.

You found one example from 8 years ago where Lebron was playing at an MVP level and didn't have a teammate make it. I have provided numerous examples of guys getting into the game when their stats were not as great cause their team was running away with the conference (Klay, Ray, Teague, Korver).

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2017, 07:53:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Teams that run away with conferences have great players. Great players make all star teams.  In weird seasons where a team with just 1 great player ran away from the conference that team only had 1 all star.
So what you are saying is it doesn't matter if a team runs away with a conference, they are only going to get as many All-Stars as they have great players.

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2017, 08:00:07 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Teams that run away with conferences have great players. Great players make all star teams.  In weird seasons where a team with just 1 great player ran away from the conference that team only had 1 all star.
So what you are saying is it doesn't matter if a team runs away with a conference, they are only going to get as many All-Stars as they have great players.

I am not sure what he is really even arguing anymore to be honest Nick. My main point has been that a team gets reworded with guys making the all-star game if they are running away with their conference and having a dominant season. This literally came up last year when Klay and Dray made the team when there were some other guys with much gaudier stats. Klay Thompson actually talked about this in an interview and pointing out he thought they deserved it because they were still in single digit losses at that point and 4-5 games of the Spurs for the best record. It happened a few years earlier than that when Teague and Korver were awarded all-star spots as a nod to the Hawks having an incredibly dominant record and long win streak. It even happened with our own Celtics team where Ray was named as an injury replacement when he was averaging 17 points on pretty average shooting because the Celtics had such a great record.

If the Celtics reach the all-star break and somehow continue on their own torrid pace and are 5-6 games on the rest of the conference it would be fairly unprecedented to not have a second all-star. If we fall back to the pack, then it would not be unprecedented at all (as Moranis had illustrated it is fairly common for teams that have the same record or are in second place to only get one all-star. I really don't understand how this is even slightly controversial and feels like Moranis is just arguing for the sake of it.

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2017, 06:25:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.
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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2017, 07:07:12 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.

They had either a 4 or 5 game lead and still had single digit losses. Klay Thompson mentioned this in an interview cause Aldridge was upset he didn't make the team. I also already explained all this in my post.

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2017, 07:23:54 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I hope none. Hope they use that time to rest up!

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2017, 08:24:17 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.

They had either a 4 or 5 game lead and still had single digit losses. Klay Thompson mentioned this in an interview cause Aldridge was upset he didn't make the team. I also already explained all this in my post.
The reserves were announced on January 26th.  Golden State was 39-7 (last game the 25th), San Antonio was 36-9 (last game the 24th).  That isn't running away with the conference.  The 14/15 Cavs had a bigger lead on Toronto then the Warriors did last year, yet you don't want to count the Cavs that year and their 1 all star.  You're being incredibly inconsistent in what you are looking at and only counting the teams that you think prove your point while disregarding the ones that don't. 
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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2017, 08:38:47 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.

They had either a 4 or 5 game lead and still had single digit losses. Klay Thompson mentioned this in an interview cause Aldridge was upset he didn't make the team. I also already explained all this in my post.
The reserves were announced on January 26th.  Golden State was 39-7 (last game the 25th), San Antonio was 36-9 (last game the 24th). That isn't running away with the conference.  The 14/15 Cavs had a bigger lead on Toronto then the Warriors did last year, yet you don't want to count the Cavs that year and their 1 all star.  You're being incredibly inconsistent in what you are looking at and only counting the teams that you think prove your point while disregarding the ones that don't.

Just curious, what were their records a week before the announcement? Because I HIGHLY doubt the votes were received, tallied, and announced within a 24 hour period.

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2017, 08:44:02 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.

They had either a 4 or 5 game lead and still had single digit losses. Klay Thompson mentioned this in an interview cause Aldridge was upset he didn't make the team. I also already explained all this in my post.
The reserves were announced on January 26th.  Golden State was 39-7 (last game the 25th), San Antonio was 36-9 (last game the 24th). That isn't running away with the conference.  The 14/15 Cavs had a bigger lead on Toronto then the Warriors did last year, yet you don't want to count the Cavs that year and their 1 all star.  You're being incredibly inconsistent in what you are looking at and only counting the teams that you think prove your point while disregarding the ones that don't.

Just curious, what were their records a week before the announcement? Because I HIGHLY doubt the votes were received, tallied, and announced within a 24 hour period.

Thompson says they had a 4 game lead here. This is what I was basing on http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/14/klay-thompson-to-spurs-player-we-have-better-all-star-case/

If he was wrong and they didn't have a substantial lead, it just means I can go back and find other examples. You have only found one case in the modern NBA where a team had the best record by a substantial margin and only got one all star right? Again it is incredibly weird to me you are trying to argue a pretty basic premise here.

Also I'll put my tommy points where my mouth is. If the Celtics maintain a 4 game lead or greater  in the conference and only get one all star I'll give you 50 tommy points.

Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2017, 08:55:19 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.

They had either a 4 or 5 game lead and still had single digit losses. Klay Thompson mentioned this in an interview cause Aldridge was upset he didn't make the team. I also already explained all this in my post.
The reserves were announced on January 26th.  Golden State was 39-7 (last game the 25th), San Antonio was 36-9 (last game the 24th). That isn't running away with the conference.  The 14/15 Cavs had a bigger lead on Toronto then the Warriors did last year, yet you don't want to count the Cavs that year and their 1 all star.  You're being incredibly inconsistent in what you are looking at and only counting the teams that you think prove your point while disregarding the ones that don't.

Just curious, what were their records a week before the announcement? Because I HIGHLY doubt the votes were received, tallied, and announced within a 24 hour period.

Thompson says they had a 4 game lead here. This is what I was basing on http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/14/klay-thompson-to-spurs-player-we-have-better-all-star-case/

If he was wrong and they didn't have a substantial lead, it just means I can go back and find other examples. You have only found one case in the modern NBA where a team had the best record by a substantial margin and only got one all star right? Again it is incredibly weird to me you are trying to argue a pretty basic premise here.

Also I'll put my tommy points where my mouth is. If the Celtics maintain a 4 game lead or greater  in the conference and only get one all star I'll give you 50 tommy points.
by the all star game they did have a 4 game lead.  They did not when the all star rosters were announced.
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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2017, 09:00:17 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The Warriors didn't run away with the conference last year though.  The Spurs were right there with them at the all star break so I'm not sure why you keep bringing them up.

They had either a 4 or 5 game lead and still had single digit losses. Klay Thompson mentioned this in an interview cause Aldridge was upset he didn't make the team. I also already explained all this in my post.
The reserves were announced on January 26th.  Golden State was 39-7 (last game the 25th), San Antonio was 36-9 (last game the 24th). That isn't running away with the conference.  The 14/15 Cavs had a bigger lead on Toronto then the Warriors did last year, yet you don't want to count the Cavs that year and their 1 all star.  You're being incredibly inconsistent in what you are looking at and only counting the teams that you think prove your point while disregarding the ones that don't.

Just curious, what were their records a week before the announcement? Because I HIGHLY doubt the votes were received, tallied, and announced within a 24 hour period.
The starters were announced January 17th.  The Warriors were 35-6 (last game the 16th).  The Spurs played and won on the 17th to go to 32-9, so they were 31-9 before the 17th.  So a 3.5 game lead before the 17th when the fans voted the starters in.  The Spurs were 5-0 and the Warriors were 4-1 from the games on January 17th till their last game before the 26th.  So while the reserves were being picked the Spurs gained a game. 
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Re: how many all stars will we have in the all star game? (Poll)
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2017, 09:11:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I had the Cavs year wrong it was 15/16.  The Cavs had a 3 game lead on the Raptors when the starters were announced.  Lebron was the only all star on the Cavs that year (Irving missed the first couple of months).  I don't know what Love was averaging around the selections but he finished with basically 16/10/2.5 with a TS% of 55.3, so it isn't like he couldn't have been an all star as the "2nd" best player on the clear best team in the conference (those stats are also in the ball park for what Horford will be). 
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