Author Topic: This unit would be better offensivley with Hayward but what about defensively?  (Read 2347 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Celtics4ever

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16151
  • Tommy Points: 1042
Quote
h CBS is a great coach.

He is a great coach.

I think one of the reason is that most guys on your list are athletes.   We are more athletic and lengthy than in past years.   Those things really help on D.   I hope Ainge keeps getting guys that can stay in front of their man, switch, rotate, and recover on D.

Online Csfan1984

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5569
  • Tommy Points: 22
Hayward does still have size and decent athleticism. He would just mean even more of a relentlessly rotation.
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Online Chris22

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4225
  • Tommy Points: 375
He came in like a wrecking ball....

Offline Sophomore

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 776
  • Tommy Points: 134
If he’s healthy, Hayward would be better than Tatum on D. Not as long, but much stronger and at this point in his career has better understanding of NBA team defense.

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12359
  • Tommy Points: 2423
He's going to fit just fine.

He does MANY things very well - defense is one of them.

I don't think he'll be GREAT at any one thing but dude didn't lead Utah to the WCSF by his looks alone, :)

He appears to be the ultimate Glue Guy...he's going to be able to give us whatever we'll need at a particular point in the game...like Marcus Smart but better offensively.
Marcus Smart "Impacts Winning." Boston Celtics Coach Brad Stevens

Offline Mike Pemulis

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 182
  • Tommy Points: 18
Our best defensive unit?  According the basketball reference, here is the top-10 defensive ratings for the entire league:

1. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 94.4
2. Terry Rozier • BOS 96.6
3. Aron Baynes • BOS 96.8
4. Al Horford • BOS 96.8
5. Kyrie Irving • BOS 96.9
6. Marcus Smart • BOS 97.0
7. Jaylen Brown • BOS 97.2
8. Ed Davis • POR 97.3
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 97.7
10. Andre Drummond • DET 98.3

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

I find these leader stats to be remarkable.  CBS is a great coach.

Good God. We've gotta trade for Ed Davis.
Allston, MA --> Enfield Tennis Academy

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7318
  • Tommy Points: 1231
Our best defensive unit?  According the basketball reference, here is the top-10 defensive ratings for the entire league:

1. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 94.4
2. Terry Rozier • BOS 96.6
3. Aron Baynes • BOS 96.8
4. Al Horford • BOS 96.8
5. Kyrie Irving • BOS 96.9
6. Marcus Smart • BOS 97.0
7. Jaylen Brown • BOS 97.2
8. Ed Davis • POR 97.3
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 97.7
10. Andre Drummond • DET 98.3

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

I find these leader stats to be remarkable.  CBS is a great coach.

While it's clear that the Celts have an elite defense (and a great coach), I think these stats speak just as much to how crude defensive stats are still -- very poor at distinguishing an individual's contributions to a strong unit's defense.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2315
  • Tommy Points: 425
Our best defensive unit?  According the basketball reference, here is the top-10 defensive ratings for the entire league:

1. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 94.4
2. Terry Rozier • BOS 96.6
3. Aron Baynes • BOS 96.8
4. Al Horford • BOS 96.8
5. Kyrie Irving • BOS 96.9
6. Marcus Smart • BOS 97.0
7. Jaylen Brown • BOS 97.2
8. Ed Davis • POR 97.3
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 97.7
10. Andre Drummond • DET 98.3

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

I find these leader stats to be remarkable.  CBS is a great coach.

While it's clear that the Celts have an elite defense (and a great coach), I think these stats speak just as much to how crude defensive stats are still -- very poor at distinguishing an individual's contributions to a strong unit's defense.

I agree and disagree. This season could be an utter outlier for the defensive rating, but typically there are few on the same team on the top 10 list, and if they are, the team is a top defensive team.

Because the defensive rating typically does a decent job, it seems better that we should recognize that this team has really been that elite on defense, especially in comparison to the current rest of the league.

However, it is definitely an incomplete stat. I like seeing player tracking stats to see what kind of percentages defenders are holding offensive players to. Although that is an incomplete stat also, it is a primarily individual stat.

Combine the two, and great defenders are at the cross-section.

Offline keevsnick

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 900
  • Tommy Points: 78
Hayward is an under rated defender. If we're talking about who's a better defender at the three,  Hayward or Tatum its Hayward right now. Excellent at team defense, good lateral quickness. Nt amazing length, but adequate. Smart-Brown-Hayward-Morriss-Horfrod probably the bets defensive unit we can muster.

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7318
  • Tommy Points: 1231
Our best defensive unit?  According the basketball reference, here is the top-10 defensive ratings for the entire league:

1. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 94.4
2. Terry Rozier • BOS 96.6
3. Aron Baynes • BOS 96.8
4. Al Horford • BOS 96.8
5. Kyrie Irving • BOS 96.9
6. Marcus Smart • BOS 97.0
7. Jaylen Brown • BOS 97.2
8. Ed Davis • POR 97.3
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 97.7
10. Andre Drummond • DET 98.3

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

I find these leader stats to be remarkable.  CBS is a great coach.

While it's clear that the Celts have an elite defense (and a great coach), I think these stats speak just as much to how crude defensive stats are still -- very poor at distinguishing an individual's contributions to a strong unit's defense.

I agree and disagree. This season could be an utter outlier for the defensive rating, but typically there are few on the same team on the top 10 list, and if they are, the team is a top defensive team.

Because the defensive rating typically does a decent job, it seems better that we should recognize that this team has really been that elite on defense, especially in comparison to the current rest of the league.

However, it is definitely an incomplete stat. I like seeing player tracking stats to see what kind of percentages defenders are holding offensive players to. Although that is an incomplete stat also, it is a primarily individual stat.

Combine the two, and great defenders are at the cross-section.

I don't think this season's team defensive ratings are an outlier.  They are an elite defense, and I'd consider the opposite of that -- DRtg is muddied by (and thus better at identifying) team vs. individual defense.  We agree, they are elite. 

I see the value in opponent's shooting %ages, but it's also flawed and doesn't add much to the quality of defensive stats as a whole.  Steph Curry is a good example -- strong DRtg for years, but he's obviously not an elite individual defender.  He has a very high BBIQ and is a great ball-hawker, but he's able to relax and gamble on those skills b/c of the truly elite defenders around him. 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 12:52:49 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20557
  • Tommy Points: 519
Hayward is an under rated defender. If we're talking about who's a better defender at the three,  Hayward or Tatum its Hayward right now. Excellent at team defense, good lateral quickness. Nt amazing length, but adequate. Smart-Brown-Hayward-Morriss-Horfrod probably the bets defensive unit we can muster.

Disagree

Hayward is stronger and has experience over Tatum

Tatum is  already better at everything else...longer

Offline gouki88

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3585
  • Tommy Points: 41
Hayward is an under rated defender. If we're talking about who's a better defender at the three,  Hayward or Tatum its Hayward right now. Excellent at team defense, good lateral quickness. Nt amazing length, but adequate. Smart-Brown-Hayward-Morriss-Horfrod probably the bets defensive unit we can muster.

Disagree

Hayward is stronger and has experience over Tatum

Tatum is  already better at everything else...longer
Someone didn't watch much of GH last year.

Being longer doesn't just make someone better at defence by default. Guess Ben Wallace is inferior to Thabeet.

Hayward is considerably better at defence than Tatum now, but Tatum definitely can be down the track

Offline Yazfan

  • Semi Ojeleye
  • Posts: 26
  • Tommy Points: 16
My fear is how close to old Hayward will healed Hayward be?

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8190
  • Tommy Points: 810
Hayward is an under rated defender. If we're talking about who's a better defender at the three,  Hayward or Tatum its Hayward right now. Excellent at team defense, good lateral quickness. Nt amazing length, but adequate. Smart-Brown-Hayward-Morriss-Horfrod probably the bets defensive unit we can muster.

Disagree

Hayward is stronger and has experience over Tatum

Tatum is  already better at everything else...longer
Someone didn't watch much of GH last year.

Being longer doesn't just make someone better at defence by default. Guess Ben Wallace is inferior to Thabeet.

Hayward is considerably better at defence than Tatum now, but Tatum definitely can be down the track
hayward isnt great defensively. Playing in front of Gobert helped him a lot.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7476
  • Tommy Points: 511
Hayward is an under rated defender. If we're talking about who's a better defender at the three,  Hayward or Tatum its Hayward right now. Excellent at team defense, good lateral quickness. Nt amazing length, but adequate. Smart-Brown-Hayward-Morriss-Horfrod probably the bets defensive unit we can muster.

Disagree

Hayward is stronger and has experience over Tatum

Tatum is  already better at everything else...longer
Someone didn't watch much of GH last year.

Being longer doesn't just make someone better at defence by default. Guess Ben Wallace is inferior to Thabeet.

Hayward is considerably better at defence than Tatum now, but Tatum definitely can be down the track
hayward isnt great defensively. Playing in front of gobert helped him a lot.
how much jazz basketball did you watch? I asked a Utah jazz board and they described Hayward as a “great  defender.” They think he  will help strengthen the Celtic defense and not make it worse


I’m actually shocked a little at how many fans are calling Gordon a bad defender. In college he wasn’t good but he’s one of the better defenders in the league, and one of the reasons the Jazz has a great defense. He switches with ease. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 02:24:12 AM by CelticsElite »