Author Topic: This unit would be better offensivley with Hayward but what about defensively?  (Read 1724 times)

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Offline triboy16f

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What I remember of GH is that , he is a solid defender. But with a lack of high end quickness/explosivess and short wingspan.... He has his limitations

KD last season in the playoffs was shooting over him, getting past him etc... I mean GH put on a solid effort..but still

So is this unit of Horford, Morris, Brown, Tatum, Irving/Smart

The best defensive unit for the Celts?

No knock on GH while he is down...just from a tactical perspective

Offline ETNCeltics

  • Gordon Hayward
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The net gain from having a player GH's caliber on the floor vs., say, Morris, is huge. He provides far more offensively than anything they'd lose defensively.

Durant didn't go off on Hayward and Utah. He had one big game and was held in check otherwise. GH and his teammates did a far better job on Durant in that series than CLE and Lebron did in the finals, when he went for 35 a game.

Offline stes

  • Terry Rozier
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As good as Kyrie has been on both ends of the floor, I don't think I would include him in the Celtics' best defensive line-up. Such line-up would have to include Horford-Brown-Smart and then depending on a match-up it would consist of two of Morris/Baynes/Tatum/Rozier. And by the time Hayward returns I believe Tatum might already be a better defender for bigger wing players. Right now he still sometimes gets the rotations wrong (first KD bucket of the cut last night) or gets beaten on the drive (D.Green last night), but he's so long and has got  active hands. However, I believe we would benefit incredibly from putting Gordon in a bench unit to help Marcus run the offense while Kyrie sits. Man, it's so bittersweet to watch this team be on such a great run, but then realize we've got one star sidelined for a year.

Offline konkmv

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i think stevens will be jumping around if he has irving brown hayward tatum and horford as staring 5

Offline obnoxiousmime

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I think that yes, you may lose a little on defense but you gain much more on offense. Maybe the biggest benefit would be that you could split Hayward and Irving sometimes to make sure the offense doesn't fall apart when Irving is resting. Or, put Tatum on the bench (would hate to see this happen considering how well he's been with the starters) and let him develop more as the focal point. Even though he will struggle at first, he's going to need that experience eventually.
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Offline saltlover

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It is easier to set up your defense off of made baskets.  So even if Hayward is a little less good on defense (and remember, the Jazz had the #3 defense last year with Hayward playing the second-most minutes on the team), the overall effect on defense would likely be negligible, as there would be fewer transition opportunities.

Offline triboy16f

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I think that yes, you may lose a little on defense but you gain much more on offense. Maybe the biggest benefit would be that you could split Hayward and Irving sometimes to make sure the offense doesn't fall apart when Irving is resting. Or, put Tatum on the bench (would hate to see this happen considering how well he's been with the starters) and let him develop more as the focal point. Even though he will struggle at first, he's going to need that experience eventually.

Tatum is = throw to the Wolves , right now. No mercy


Offline bopna

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Our transition offense was atrocious last night because we couldnt make shots...if GH was around we will sort of have no issues with those 4 and half minutes without a made fieldgoal and this was where GS where making their run.

We make shots and its easier to set up our D.

Offline droopdog7

  • Antoine Walker
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Our defense would not suffer very much at all and our offense would be significantly better.  Win win.

Offline Eddie20

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What I remember of GH is that , he is a solid defender. But with a lack of high end quickness/explosivess and short wingspan.... He has his limitations

KD last season in the playoffs was shooting over him, getting past him etc... I mean GH put on a solid effort..but still

So is this unit of Horford, Morris, Brown, Tatum, Irving/Smart

The best defensive unit for the Celts?

No knock on GH while he is down...just from a tactical perspective

Hayward has excellent lateral quickness, which is why he was such a highly regarded tennis player. He also good leaping ability, but most importantly he also has a great team defender. The guy is slawsys in the right place defensively.

Our best 5 defense unit would be-

Morris
Hayward
Horford
Smart
Brown

Offline Green-18

  • Brad Stevens
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What I remember of GH is that , he is a solid defender. But with a lack of high end quickness/explosivess and short wingspan.... He has his limitations

KD last season in the playoffs was shooting over him, getting past him etc... I mean GH put on a solid effort..but still

So is this unit of Horford, Morris, Brown, Tatum, Irving/Smart

The best defensive unit for the Celts?


No knock on GH while he is down...just from a tactical perspective


It's a good question.  I honestly think we would be roughly the same due to our intensity level and effort.  The added depth would also make the bench more consistent.

You could argue that Hayward's lack of length could affect our rebounding rate with the starters but I don't think it would work out that way.  Tatum would still be in the starting lineup most nights unless Brad wanted the size of Baynes for a particular match up.  Right now Morris is in the starting spot and his measurable are similar to Hayward.  The analytics show that Baynes is the common denominator in all of our best defensive lineups.  We have been historically great in his 19 MPG.  No reason to think that this would change with Hayward healthy.

Offline Ed Hollison

  • Gordon Hayward
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Hayward is a good defender, the way the game is played now. For how this team plays defense -- as a team, switching everything, being flexible, covering for one another -- he fits in perfectly.
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Offline Moranis

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What I remember of GH is that , he is a solid defender. But with a lack of high end quickness/explosivess and short wingspan.... He has his limitations

KD last season in the playoffs was shooting over him, getting past him etc... I mean GH put on a solid effort..but still

So is this unit of Horford, Morris, Brown, Tatum, Irving/Smart

The best defensive unit for the Celts?

No knock on GH while he is down...just from a tactical perspective

Hayward has excellent lateral quickness, which is why he was such a highly regarded tennis player. He also good leaping ability, but most importantly he also has a great team defender. The guy is slawsys in the right place defensively.

Our best 5 defense unit would be-

Morris
Hayward
Horford
Smart
Brown
I'd actually put Tatum in for Morris as I believe Tatum is a bit more versatile than Morris. 
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Offline saltlover

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What I remember of GH is that , he is a solid defender. But with a lack of high end quickness/explosivess and short wingspan.... He has his limitations

KD last season in the playoffs was shooting over him, getting past him etc... I mean GH put on a solid effort..but still

So is this unit of Horford, Morris, Brown, Tatum, Irving/Smart

The best defensive unit for the Celts?

No knock on GH while he is down...just from a tactical perspective

Hayward has excellent lateral quickness, which is why he was such a highly regarded tennis player. He also good leaping ability, but most importantly he also has a great team defender. The guy is slawsys in the right place defensively.

Our best 5 defense unit would be-

Morris
Hayward
Horford
Smart
Brown
I'd actually put Tatum in for Morris as I believe Tatum is a bit more versatile than Morris.

It depends on the opponent, honestly.  Against the Cavs I’d go with Morris, because he’s stronger and better able to withstand LeBron (and is one of the better defenders against him statistically in the league).  Against a team with a real center and PF, like the Clippers or Timberwolves, I’d probably go with Baynes.  But Tatum is a fine choice for some opponents too, and Stevens indeed subbed in Smart for Morris and not Tatum in defense-offense substitutions last night.

Offline Surferdad

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Our best defensive unit?  According the basketball reference, here is the top-10 defensive ratings for the entire league:

1. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 94.4
2. Terry Rozier • BOS 96.6
3. Aron Baynes • BOS 96.8
4. Al Horford • BOS 96.8
5. Kyrie Irving • BOS 96.9
6. Marcus Smart • BOS 97.0
7. Jaylen Brown • BOS 97.2
8. Ed Davis • POR 97.3
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 97.7
10. Andre Drummond • DET 98.3

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

I find these leader stats to be remarkable.  CBS is a great coach.