Author Topic: We're #1!!!  (Read 5025 times)

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Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2017, 09:58:22 AM »

Offline incoherent

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.

I haven't been on here for a while, but I have to ask - are you feeling any better about the IT / Kyrie trade now?

I hope Kyrie has earned some of your appreciation, as he's impressed (and surprised) the hell out of me with his unselfishness and his incredibly hard nosed defense so far. 

I'm starting to very seriously wonder how much of the Cavs' success the past three seasons was actually due to Kyrie.

I feel better about the trade. I still don’t think that the gap between Kyrie and IT is worth what we paid, but a lot of my concerns are proving not to be all that worrisome.

I was worried about chemistry, which hasn’t been an issue at all. We had a great locker room last year. We have a great one this year, too.

I was worried that Kyrie would be offensively lesser to IT, and defensively equal. So far I’m at 50%. Kyrie’s defense has looked above-average, especially when compared to most all-star guards.

I worried that we had 2.5 stars before the trade, and 2.5 after. Well, Horford has made that 3.0 stars,and Tatum looks like a future star, as well.  With Tatum and Brown playing like good starters already, concerns about how we will add impact players are mitigated.

If the Nets pick turns out to be 6th or below, or if IT struggles, I’ll tip my cap to DA.

Pretty level headed response. 

One question though, and this is kind of a philosophical one... 

You are going to be grading this trade on the results of another team. If IT struggles, or if other teams picks turn out good or bad then its a good trade? 

The only thing we can control after a trade is how well our team plays.  We made the trade to make our team better.

We are playing extremely well, infact much better then anyone predicted. This to me means we won the trade, regardless of what happens to other components now on other teams.

So, why rely so much on how the other components turn out?  When the most important part of the trade is How Much Better Did the Celtics Get?  The answer is we got a lot better, and we are clearly better now then we would have been before the trade. 







Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2017, 09:59:48 AM »

Offline Mike Pemulis

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We beat the Warriors last night to win our 14th straight game.
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Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2017, 10:00:58 AM »

Offline gift

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I'm not all that concerned about the offense. Boston is 26th out of 30 teams in shooting % at .433, but subtract Smart's abysmal shooting and Boston rockets up to 18th place at .450—which is not great, but also not terrible. If Smart would just shoot less, and Kyrie gets a bit more comfortable in the offense, I think the team O will be fine.

yeah, I'm not really worried about the offense long term. They're still getting it together. If they keep working, they will be better in April than they are today.

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2017, 10:13:11 AM »

Offline Moranis

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.

I haven't been on here for a while, but I have to ask - are you feeling any better about the IT / Kyrie trade now?

I hope Kyrie has earned some of your appreciation, as he's impressed (and surprised) the hell out of me with his unselfishness and his incredibly hard nosed defense so far. 

I'm starting to very seriously wonder how much of the Cavs' success the past three seasons was actually due to Kyrie.

I feel better about the trade. I still don’t think that the gap between Kyrie and IT is worth what we paid, but a lot of my concerns are proving not to be all that worrisome.

I was worried about chemistry, which hasn’t been an issue at all. We had a great locker room last year. We have a great one this year, too.

I was worried that Kyrie would be offensively lesser to IT, and defensively equal. So far I’m at 50%. Kyrie’s defense has looked above-average, especially when compared to most all-star guards.

I worried that we had 2.5 stars before the trade, and 2.5 after. Well, Horford has made that 3.0 stars,and Tatum looks like a future star, as well.  With Tatum and Brown playing like good starters already, concerns about how we will add impact players are mitigated.

If the Nets pick turns out to be 6th or below, or if IT struggles, I’ll tip my cap to DA.

Pretty level headed response. 

One question though, and this is kind of a philosophical one... 

You are going to be grading this trade on the results of another team. If IT struggles, or if other teams picks turn out good or bad then its a good trade? 

The only thing we can control after a trade is how well our team plays.  We made the trade to make our team better.

We are playing extremely well, infact much better then anyone predicted. This to me means we won the trade, regardless of what happens to other components now on other teams.

So, why rely so much on how the other components turn out?  When the most important part of the trade is How Much Better Did the Celtics Get?  The answer is we got a lot better, and we are clearly better now then we would have been before the trade.
Except you can't really say that the C's got a lot better unless you know what Thomas and the BKN end up like.
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Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2017, 10:25:20 AM »

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i like stephs interview post game.  paraphrased...........the cavs have won the east the last 3 years...we have to prove we can get past them........but i hear the weather is nice here(boston) in june. 

i think he is taking us seriously but i agree we have to beat the man if we wanna be the man in lebrons cavs. that is the bottom line.
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2017, 10:33:11 AM »

Offline PaulAllen

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Just wait until this team starts shooting well ... Still currently under 43% and 34% from three... 
I expect 46% and 38% by end of year ...

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2017, 10:36:07 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.

I haven't been on here for a while, but I have to ask - are you feeling any better about the IT / Kyrie trade now?

I hope Kyrie has earned some of your appreciation, as he's impressed (and surprised) the hell out of me with his unselfishness and his incredibly hard nosed defense so far. 

I'm starting to very seriously wonder how much of the Cavs' success the past three seasons was actually due to Kyrie.

I feel better about the trade. I still don’t think that the gap between Kyrie and IT is worth what we paid, but a lot of my concerns are proving not to be all that worrisome.

I was worried about chemistry, which hasn’t been an issue at all. We had a great locker room last year. We have a great one this year, too.

I was worried that Kyrie would be offensively lesser to IT, and defensively equal. So far I’m at 50%. Kyrie’s defense has looked above-average, especially when compared to most all-star guards.

I worried that we had 2.5 stars before the trade, and 2.5 after. Well, Horford has made that 3.0 stars,and Tatum looks like a future star, as well.  With Tatum and Brown playing like good starters already, concerns about how we will add impact players are mitigated.

If the Nets pick turns out to be 6th or below, or if IT struggles, I’ll tip my cap to DA.

Pretty level headed response. 

One question though, and this is kind of a philosophical one... 

You are going to be grading this trade on the results of another team. If IT struggles, or if other teams picks turn out good or bad then its a good trade? 

The only thing we can control after a trade is how well our team plays.  We made the trade to make our team better.

We are playing extremely well, infact much better then anyone predicted. This to me means we won the trade, regardless of what happens to other components now on other teams.

So, why rely so much on how the other components turn out?  When the most important part of the trade is How Much Better Did the Celtics Get?  The answer is we got a lot better, and we are clearly better now then we would have been before the trade.
Except you can't really say that the C's got a lot better unless you know what Thomas and the BKN end up like.

Well, I think you can.

Right now Boston is struggling offensively, but dominating with their defense.  This is something I certainly didn't anticipate, and I can't help but feel that one of the biggest reasons for our defensive improvement is replacing IT with Kyrie.

Irving has always had the physical attributes to be a decent nba defender, as he's pretty tall for a PG and also pretty quick with his first step.  The question for me has always been his effort and desire on that end of the court, but so far he's arguably playing every bit as hard on defensive as anybody else on the team.

Love IT, but I can't help falling that if we had a healthy IT in Kyrie place right now we'd be scoring a little bit more then we are now, but we'd be a LOT worse defensively.

Of course it's not all on Kyrie.  Horford has been amazing so far, Brown has developed into one of the better defensive wings in the league, Baynes has given us the informer we've always needed, Tatum has been playing better D then a 19 year old has any right to, And Rozier has also made huge strides defensively...so it's a team effort.

But I feel like what allows each of those guys to excel so much defensively is that we don't have one major crack in the armor that teams can target / exploit defensively.  Sad as it is, iT was exactly that for us last season, as was whoever we had at the second big spot.

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2017, 10:58:36 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.
Offensively. Defensively, there could be regression to the mean.

Seems more likely though that they improve since they are still a bunch of strangers who have been playing together for a month and a half.

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2017, 11:02:41 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.

I haven't been on here for a while, but I have to ask - are you feeling any better about the IT / Kyrie trade now?

I hope Kyrie has earned some of your appreciation, as he's impressed (and surprised) the hell out of me with his unselfishness and his incredibly hard nosed defense so far. 

I'm starting to very seriously wonder how much of the Cavs' success the past three seasons was actually due to Kyrie.

I feel better about the trade. I still don’t think that the gap between Kyrie and IT is worth what we paid, but a lot of my concerns are proving not to be all that worrisome.

I was worried about chemistry, which hasn’t been an issue at all. We had a great locker room last year. We have a great one this year, too.

I was worried that Kyrie would be offensively lesser to IT, and defensively equal. So far I’m at 50%. Kyrie’s defense has looked above-average, especially when compared to most all-star guards.

I worried that we had 2.5 stars before the trade, and 2.5 after. Well, Horford has made that 3.0 stars,and Tatum looks like a future star, as well.  With Tatum and Brown playing like good starters already, concerns about how we will add impact players are mitigated.

If the Nets pick turns out to be 6th or below, or if IT struggles, I’ll tip my cap to DA.

Pretty level headed response. 

One question though, and this is kind of a philosophical one... 

You are going to be grading this trade on the results of another team. If IT struggles, or if other teams picks turn out good or bad then its a good trade? 

The only thing we can control after a trade is how well our team plays.  We made the trade to make our team better.

We are playing extremely well, infact much better then anyone predicted. This to me means we won the trade, regardless of what happens to other components now on other teams.

So, why rely so much on how the other components turn out?  When the most important part of the trade is How Much Better Did the Celtics Get?  The answer is we got a lot better, and we are clearly better now then we would have been before the trade.
Yeah, I find Clev irrelevant.

What matters to me is that IT was going to walk. Look at our defense with a guard who isn't overmatched. Even with Kyrie still getting comfortable on offense, we are dominating. This is with guys who have only been playing together for a month and a half and without the FA the made us have to let Olynyk and others walk.

If IT helps Clev, great for them.

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2017, 11:10:15 AM »

Offline Moranis

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.

I haven't been on here for a while, but I have to ask - are you feeling any better about the IT / Kyrie trade now?

I hope Kyrie has earned some of your appreciation, as he's impressed (and surprised) the hell out of me with his unselfishness and his incredibly hard nosed defense so far. 

I'm starting to very seriously wonder how much of the Cavs' success the past three seasons was actually due to Kyrie.

I feel better about the trade. I still don’t think that the gap between Kyrie and IT is worth what we paid, but a lot of my concerns are proving not to be all that worrisome.

I was worried about chemistry, which hasn’t been an issue at all. We had a great locker room last year. We have a great one this year, too.

I was worried that Kyrie would be offensively lesser to IT, and defensively equal. So far I’m at 50%. Kyrie’s defense has looked above-average, especially when compared to most all-star guards.

I worried that we had 2.5 stars before the trade, and 2.5 after. Well, Horford has made that 3.0 stars,and Tatum looks like a future star, as well.  With Tatum and Brown playing like good starters already, concerns about how we will add impact players are mitigated.

If the Nets pick turns out to be 6th or below, or if IT struggles, I’ll tip my cap to DA.

Pretty level headed response. 

One question though, and this is kind of a philosophical one... 

You are going to be grading this trade on the results of another team. If IT struggles, or if other teams picks turn out good or bad then its a good trade? 

The only thing we can control after a trade is how well our team plays.  We made the trade to make our team better.

We are playing extremely well, infact much better then anyone predicted. This to me means we won the trade, regardless of what happens to other components now on other teams.

So, why rely so much on how the other components turn out?  When the most important part of the trade is How Much Better Did the Celtics Get?  The answer is we got a lot better, and we are clearly better now then we would have been before the trade.
Except you can't really say that the C's got a lot better unless you know what Thomas and the BKN end up like.

Well, I think you can.

Right now Boston is struggling offensively, but dominating with their defense.  This is something I certainly didn't anticipate, and I can't help but feel that one of the biggest reasons for our defensive improvement is replacing IT with Kyrie.

Irving has always had the physical attributes to be a decent nba defender, as he's pretty tall for a PG and also pretty quick with his first step.  The question for me has always been his effort and desire on that end of the court, but so far he's arguably playing every bit as hard on defensive as anybody else on the team.

Love IT, but I can't help falling that if we had a healthy IT in Kyrie place right now we'd be scoring a little bit more then we are now, but we'd be a LOT worse defensively.

Of course it's not all on Kyrie.  Horford has been amazing so far, Brown has developed into one of the better defensive wings in the league, Baynes has given us the informer we've always needed, Tatum has been playing better D then a 19 year old has any right to, And Rozier has also made huge strides defensively...so it's a team effort.

But I feel like what allows each of those guys to excel so much defensively is that we don't have one major crack in the armor that teams can target / exploit defensively.  Sad as it is, iT was exactly that for us last season, as was whoever we had at the second big spot.
But you just don't know what this team would be like with IT, Crowder, Zizic, and the BKN going forward.  Until you see that, you can't make a definitive statement on the trade one way or another.  The team is no question playing well and without IT would be a lot worse at this point (though maybe Hayward doesn't get hurt), but you don't win or lose a trade on the first 16 games, you win or lose a trade on the ultimate outcome and in the ultimate outcome IT and BKN are huge factors.
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Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2017, 11:10:45 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.
Offensively. Defensively, there could be regression to the mean.

Seems more likely though that they improve since they are still a bunch of strangers who have been playing together for a month and a half.
what mean? do you refer to a league average mean? if so, i doubt it. this team is playing above league average, some one has to.  ;D

do you refer to the "celtics mean" on defense? well, what exactly is that? only 4 players back from last year, so we cant use last year as a bench mark.

all we can say is that currently, this team is playing great defense and until it drops, this is the magical "mean" you are referring to.

next, on the point by Hobbes on the difference between IT and kyrie. i get your point and in a narrow context it has merit, no doubt. but you seem to refer to IT as if the last year of IT is the normal IT, the IT that would appear in the future year after year.

i dont think so. i think IT played a career year last year and his future will not be as bright as it was then. in that context, the trade was definately for a better player going forward.
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Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2017, 12:05:15 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.

I haven't been on here for a while, but I have to ask - are you feeling any better about the IT / Kyrie trade now?

I hope Kyrie has earned some of your appreciation, as he's impressed (and surprised) the hell out of me with his unselfishness and his incredibly hard nosed defense so far. 

I'm starting to very seriously wonder how much of the Cavs' success the past three seasons was actually due to Kyrie.

I feel better about the trade. I still don’t think that the gap between Kyrie and IT is worth what we paid, but a lot of my concerns are proving not to be all that worrisome.

I was worried about chemistry, which hasn’t been an issue at all. We had a great locker room last year. We have a great one this year, too.

I was worried that Kyrie would be offensively lesser to IT, and defensively equal. So far I’m at 50%. Kyrie’s defense has looked above-average, especially when compared to most all-star guards.

I worried that we had 2.5 stars before the trade, and 2.5 after. Well, Horford has made that 3.0 stars,and Tatum looks like a future star, as well.  With Tatum and Brown playing like good starters already, concerns about how we will add impact players are mitigated.

If the Nets pick turns out to be 6th or below, or if IT struggles, I’ll tip my cap to DA.

Pretty level headed response. 

One question though, and this is kind of a philosophical one... 

You are going to be grading this trade on the results of another team. If IT struggles, or if other teams picks turn out good or bad then its a good trade? 

The only thing we can control after a trade is how well our team plays.  We made the trade to make our team better.

We are playing extremely well, infact much better then anyone predicted. This to me means we won the trade, regardless of what happens to other components now on other teams.

So, why rely so much on how the other components turn out?  When the most important part of the trade is How Much Better Did the Celtics Get?  The answer is we got a lot better, and we are clearly better now then we would have been before the trade.
Yeah, I find Clev irrelevant.

What matters to me is that IT was going to walk. Look at our defense with a guard who isn't overmatched. Even with Kyrie still getting comfortable on offense, we are dominating. This is with guys who have only been playing together for a month and a half and without the FA the made us have to let Olynyk and others walk.

If IT helps Clev, great for them.
Completely agree.  In theory, the purpose of a trade is for both teams to win.  So I am not worried about what happens with Cleveland because we don't know how things would have worked out here.  Seems likely DA didn't want to pay IT.  Whether Clev does or not is up to them.  So what he does in Clev doesn't really matter.  What they do with the assets is certainly not what the Celts would have done with them.

On our side, we got a [dang] good player who is 25 years old and a multiple time all star already.  We also made space for Tatum and Brown by moving Crowder.  Again, the trade is about the Celts not the Cavs. 

As for the Nets pick.  Who knows?  I think it will end up around #5 which is fine with me.  We have too many picks as it is and need to shift to win now mode.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:28:07 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2017, 12:08:45 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This is crazy. They’re not even playing their best basketball.
Offensively. Defensively, there could be regression to the mean.

Seems more likely though that they improve since they are still a bunch of strangers who have been playing together for a month and a half.
what mean? do you refer to a league average mean? if so, i doubt it. this team is playing above league average, some one has to.  ;D

do you refer to the "celtics mean" on defense? well, what exactly is that? only 4 players back from last year, so we cant use last year as a bench mark.

all we can say is that currently, this team is playing great defense and until it drops, this is the magical "mean" you are referring to.
Let's just say that we won't be able to hold the Golden States of the NBA world to .400 from the field every night.
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Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2017, 12:28:36 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Yup...whether

Barkley and his lame Suns D league team like ot or not.

Re: We're #1!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2017, 12:45:11 PM »

Offline byennie

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All the regression to the mean talk is a bit overstated. Yes, there are certain factors that may come back down to earth- after all, we're not going to with 80 in a row.

But, a couple of things:

1) It's very hard to define what the "mean" is with a group of players that have never played together. Irving, Tatum, Morris, Baynes, Semi, Theis, Yabusele all brand new. Brown is a significantly expanded role. Horford being used differently. Yes, if opponents appear to be missing more shots that they should that matters, but it can also be the new normal when practically everything about the team is new.

2) All the focus seems to be on our overachieving defense, and then how our offense isn't that good. Our defense might get worse, but our offense is just as likely to get better. Do we really think Smart is going to shoot 27% all year? Irving is going to shoot a career low from 3PT? Morris has only played 7 games. Rookies won't improve? Rozier is going to shoot 35%?