Author Topic: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4  (Read 1145 times)

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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 04:01:36 PM »

Offline byennie

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When Walker was at his peak from 2000-2002, 3PT shooting was not actually his weakness. He shot a respectable 35% on high volume. The underrated problem he had was shooting INSIDE the arc where he was only at 43%, took way too many long 2s, and turned the ball over.

He also had weird levels of inconsistency, where he went from 37% on high volume to 26% on low volume to 37% on high volume. Or when he shot 56% from the line one year, but 74% another.

It's hard to place a value on Walker because he was so all over the map, and eventually tended towards the bad parts. But for a while he was a good player, and a better 3PT shooter than most remember.
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 04:29:39 PM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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When Walker was at his peak from 2000-2002, 3PT shooting was not actually his weakness. He shot a respectable 35% on high volume. The underrated problem he had was shooting INSIDE the arc where he was only at 43%, took way too many long 2s, and turned the ball over.

He also had weird levels of inconsistency, where he went from 37% on high volume to 26% on low volume to 37% on high volume. Or when he shot 56% from the line one year, but 74% another.

It's hard to place a value on Walker because he was so all over the map, and eventually tended towards the bad parts. But for a while he was a good player, and a better 3PT shooter than most remember.

I think Bird beat him to it, I remember when he was drafted he was listed as a power forward but because of McHale he was shifted to small forward.

But I love your point, seems like Walker’s ego got in the way of his talent.

Edit: sorry I thought this was the OP

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2017, 04:34:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Nope, Larry Bird was the first stretch 4.  Even Paul Pierce in a recent interview I saw had cited that too.  A 6'9" PF who could shoot from anywhere... and even pass from anywhere as an added bonus!

I liked 'toine, but he wasn't that effective at shooting, but man would he love the NBA today!

To Moranis' point, what makes a stretch 4? Volume or ability? A combination?

Thing with Larry is that he didn't shoot a lot of attempts per game from behind the arc.
He also played a lot at SF.
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2017, 04:37:27 PM »

Offline Moranis

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in 1995, 6'10" Clifford Robinson jacked up five 3-pointers per game and shot 37%.

In 1996, 6'9" Robert Horry put up 5.5 per game and hit 36.6%

Antoine didn't start really putting up a ton of 3's until 2000 and his percentage was generally terrible.
Uncle Cliffy was a SF in both 95 and 96.  Horry was a SF in 96 as well.  Thus neither was a stretch 4. 
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2017, 04:46:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I truly believe Toine the first "big" to truly understand what the three point shot could be and that he doesn't get credit for being the inventor of the stretch 4.  Before Toine, I don't believe a single PF or C was ever even in the top 10 in 3 PT attempts in a season

Just because a guy attempts them does not mean he is good at them.  Walker was not known for his efficiency.

48the all time in FGs missed Antoine Walker   8625

FG%   41.4
FG3%   32.5

Pretty safe to say he wasn't an innovator at anything save playing inefficiently.   That being said he was the best we had for a while in terms of a player.

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2017, 05:20:48 PM »

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The only thing he stretched were his debts

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2017, 05:28:44 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Brad Lohaus, 6'11'' PF - 2.9 3PA per game on 37% shooting, 1993

Bill Laimbeer, 6'11'' C - 2.0 3PA per game on 36% shooting, 1990

Jack Sikma, 6'11'' C - 2.7 3PA per game on 38% shooting, 1989

Richard Anderson, 6'10'' PF/C - 2.0 3PA per game on 32% shooting, 1988

Tom Chambers, 6'10'' PF - 1.8 3PA on 37.2% shooting, 1987

Robert Horry, 6'9'' SF/PF - 3.5 3PA on 37.9% shooting, 1995

Sam Perkins, 6'9'' PF/C - 3.3 3PA on 36.7% shooting, 1994


This of course is setting aside the immortal Larry Bird.
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2017, 05:32:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Brad Lohaus, 6'11'' PF - 2.9 3PA per game on 37% shooting, 1993

Bill Laimbeer, 6'11'' C - 2.0 3PA per game on 36% shooting, 1990

Jack Sikma, 6'11'' C - 2.7 3PA per game on 38% shooting, 1989

Richard Anderson, 6'10'' PF/C - 2.0 3PA per game on 32% shooting, 1988

Tom Chambers, 6'10'' PF - 1.8 3PA on 37.2% shooting, 1987

Robert Horry, 6'9'' SF/PF - 3.5 3PA on 37.9% shooting, 1995

Sam Perkins, 6'9'' PF/C - 3.3 3PA on 36.7% shooting, 1994


This of course is setting aside the immortal Larry Bird.

I’d add Chris Webber in Washington to that list, especially 1995-1997.  40.5% on 2.1 attempts per game (combined for two seasons since he only played in 15 games one of the years).

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2017, 05:35:46 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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In 1989 Harold Pressley of the Kings attempted 3.7 threes per game and shot 40.3% in 28.2 minutes per game.  This placed him in the top 5 in three point attempts per game that season.

He was a 6'7'' PF (according to Basketball-Reference, anyway).
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2017, 06:06:57 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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I truly believe Toine the first "big" to truly understand what the three point shot could be and that he doesn't get credit for being the inventor of the stretch 4.  Before Toine, I don't believe a single PF or C was ever even in the top 10 in 3 PT attempts in a season

Just because a guy attempts them does not mean he is good at them.  Walker was not known for his efficiency.

48the all time in FGs missed Antoine Walker   8625

FG%   41.4
FG3%   32.5

Pretty safe to say he wasn't an innovator at anything save playing inefficiently.   That being said he was the best we had for a while in terms of a player.

Toine was Marcus Smart, but without the defense, ballhandling, court vision, and drive to do whatever it takes to win.

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2017, 06:10:01 PM »

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The credit for high volume 3pt chucking on those teams goes to Jim O'Brien. He knew the roster sucked, and coupled grind it out defense, and slow pace/possessions to keep it close, and the mathematical advantage of the 3 to squeeze wins out of garbage.

But to say shooting bigs were invented in 2000 really misses a lot of hoop history, and a too narrow focus even on the era of the '00's. Heck, McHale shot 3's. Rasheed Wallace for petes sake. And opposing coaches would've rather had both on the 3pt line than the post.

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2017, 07:19:48 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Toine was Marcus Smart, but without the defense, ballhandling, court vision, and drive to do whatever it takes to win.

This is unfair to Antoine.
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2017, 07:45:55 PM »

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Toine was Marcus Smart, but without the defense, ballhandling, court vision, and drive to do whatever it takes to win.

This is unfair to Antoine.

Yeah. He could dribble well, surely for his size and position. He had some skills; the frustration was his stubborn commitment to not develop them any further.

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2017, 10:26:15 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I truly believe Toine the first "big" to truly understand what the three point shot could be and that he doesn't get credit for being the inventor of the stretch 4.  Before Toine, I don't believe a single PF or C was ever even in the top 10 in 3 PT attempts in a season

Just because a guy attempts them does not mean he is good at them.  Walker was not known for his efficiency.

48the all time in FGs missed Antoine Walker   8625

FG%   41.4
FG3%   32.5

Pretty safe to say he wasn't an innovator at anything save playing inefficiently.   That being said he was the best we had for a while in terms of a player.
But the first two seasons he really upped his attempts he was a pretty good shooter. 
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2017, 10:27:32 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Brad Lohaus, 6'11'' PF - 2.9 3PA per game on 37% shooting, 1993

Bill Laimbeer, 6'11'' C - 2.0 3PA per game on 36% shooting, 1990

Jack Sikma, 6'11'' C - 2.7 3PA per game on 38% shooting, 1989

Richard Anderson, 6'10'' PF/C - 2.0 3PA per game on 32% shooting, 1988

Tom Chambers, 6'10'' PF - 1.8 3PA on 37.2% shooting, 1987

Robert Horry, 6'9'' SF/PF - 3.5 3PA on 37.9% shooting, 1995

Sam Perkins, 6'9'' PF/C - 3.3 3PA on 36.7% shooting, 1994


This of course is setting aside the immortal Larry Bird.
Most of those guys were fluke one season things and many were very much role players.  Some were SF's, like Horry.  They weren't trend setters. 
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