Author Topic: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4  (Read 1148 times)

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Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« on: November 16, 2017, 03:16:33 PM »

Online Moranis

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I was thinking about this the other day.  I truly believe Toine the first "big" to truly understand what the three point shot could be and that he doesn't get credit for being the inventor of the stretch 4.  Before Toine, I don't believe a single PF or C was ever even in the top 10 in 3 PT attempts in a season.  Toine led the league for 3 consecutive seasons.  During those 3 seasons he attempted 7.4, 8.0, and 7.5 attempts and hit them at 36.7, 34.4, and 32.3 percent.  His first two seasons with those attempts, he was hitting at a very respectable clip.  Since Toine, the 3 ball has become a significant weapon in the game and particularly for big men with guys like Lewis and Anderson leading the league in attempts from the PF position. 

So this post is to give Toine his due as the first stretch 4 and the creator of the trend.  Here's to you big guy.
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 03:24:26 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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Nope, Larry Bird was the first stretch 4.  Even Paul Pierce in a recent interview I saw had cited that too.  A 6'9" PF who could shoot from anywhere... and even pass from anywhere as an added bonus!

I liked 'toine, but he wasn't that effective at shooting, but man would he love the NBA today!

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 03:24:40 PM »

Offline Mike Pemulis

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Would Bob McAdoo qualify?
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 03:28:36 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Nope, Larry Bird was the first stretch 4.  Even Paul Pierce in a recent interview I saw had cited that too.  A 6'9" PF who could shoot from anywhere... and even pass from anywhere as an added bonus!

I liked 'toine, but he wasn't that effective at shooting, but man would he love the NBA today!

Yeah, Larry was definitely the modern day point forward, with stretch capabilities when he played at PF.

But Antoine and Jim O’Brien were before their time, for sure. At the same time, it might be a waste to utilize somebody of Toine’s skill set so much on the perimeter.


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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 03:28:41 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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'Toine is one of the biggest "what if" players I ever saw.  Feel like he barely scrapped his potential as a basketball player and, ultimately, underachieved in regards to what he could've been.

It was frustrating to watch as it was unfolding.  Especially early 2000s 'Toine.


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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 03:28:45 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Nope, Larry Bird was the first stretch 4.  Even Paul Pierce in a recent interview I saw had cited that too.  A 6'9" PF who could shoot from anywhere... and even pass from anywhere as an added bonus!

I liked 'toine, but he wasn't that effective at shooting, but man would he love the NBA today!

To Moranis' point, what makes a stretch 4? Volume or ability? A combination?

Thing with Larry is that he didn't shoot a lot of attempts per game from behind the arc.

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 03:31:41 PM »

Online Roy H.

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'Toine is one of the biggest "what if" players I ever saw.  Feel like he barely scrapped his potential as a basketball player and, ultimately, underachieved in regards to what he could've been.

It was frustrating to watch as it was unfolding.  Especially early 2000s 'Toine.

Frustrating, but I personally loved every minute of his Celtics career.


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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 03:32:52 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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'Toine is one of the biggest "what if" players I ever saw.  Feel like he barely scrapped his potential as a basketball player and, ultimately, underachieved in regards to what he could've been.

It was frustrating to watch as it was unfolding.  Especially early 2000s 'Toine.

Frustrating, but I personally loved every minute of his Celtics career.

Oh yeah, ton of awesome moments.  The run in '02 is still one of my most favorite rides as a sports fan. 


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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 03:35:34 PM »

Offline jay

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in 1995, 6'10" Clifford Robinson jacked up five 3-pointers per game and shot 37%.

In 1996, 6'9" Robert Horry put up 5.5 per game and hit 36.6%

Antoine didn't start really putting up a ton of 3's until 2000 and his percentage was generally terrible.

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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 03:35:56 PM »

Online jambr380

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Nope, Larry Bird was the first stretch 4.  Even Paul Pierce in a recent interview I saw had cited that too.  A 6'9" PF who could shoot from anywhere... and even pass from anywhere as an added bonus!

I liked 'toine, but he wasn't that effective at shooting, but man would he love the NBA today!

To Moranis' point, what makes a stretch 4? Volume or ability? A combination?

Thing with Larry is that he didn't shoot a lot of attempts per game from behind the arc.

This topic is dealing with two of my favorite players ever, so it has my attention.

I agree, I assume Moranis knows that Larry Bird could shoot 3s, but he seems to be talking about shooting the 3 ball a LOT. He also may be considering Bird a SF, which is reasonable.

Bird was definitely the best at this and the fact that his outside shooting was such a threat kept his defenders honest, but I don't think there is any doubt that Walker knew how to hoist 3s. I think this was more a Jim O'Brien philosophy than Walker's, though (Pierce was definitely not shy and don't we all remember Waltah??). Maybe he deserves more credit for how the game has evolved.

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 03:36:45 PM »

Offline liam

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'Toine is one of the biggest "what if" players I ever saw.  Feel like he barely scrapped his potential as a basketball player and, ultimately, underachieved in regards to what he could've been.

It was frustrating to watch as it was unfolding.  Especially early 2000s 'Toine.

He came on to one of the worse Celtics teams in Celtics history and tanked more than a few years away chasing draft picks that didn't pan out. If Walker had come to a team with vets and good coaching he might have been a much better player...

Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 03:39:10 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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'Toine is one of the biggest "what if" players I ever saw.  Feel like he barely scrapped his potential as a basketball player and, ultimately, underachieved in regards to what he could've been.

It was frustrating to watch as it was unfolding.  Especially early 2000s 'Toine.

He came on to one of the worse Celtics teams in Celtics history and tanked more than a few years away chasing draft picks that didn't pan out. If Walker had come to a team with vets and good coaching he might have been a much better player...

For sure.  Having ML Carr as your rookie year coach doesn't do you any favors. 


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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 03:40:46 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Nope, Larry Bird was the first stretch 4.  Even Paul Pierce in a recent interview I saw had cited that too.  A 6'9" PF who could shoot from anywhere... and even pass from anywhere as an added bonus!

I liked 'toine, but he wasn't that effective at shooting, but man would he love the NBA today!

To Moranis' point, what makes a stretch 4? Volume or ability? A combination?

Thing with Larry is that he didn't shoot a lot of attempts per game from behind the arc.

Certainly not a lot in terms of the modern day.  For his era, though, he was a volume 3PT shooter.  He finished in the top-10 in attempts seven different times (although many of those cane as a SF).


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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 03:42:42 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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'Toine is one of the biggest "what if" players I ever saw.  Feel like he barely scrapped his potential as a basketball player and, ultimately, underachieved in regards to what he could've been.

It was frustrating to watch as it was unfolding.  Especially early 2000s 'Toine.

He came on to one of the worse Celtics teams in Celtics history and tanked more than a few years away chasing draft picks that didn't pan out. If Walker had come to a team with vets and good coaching he might have been a much better player...

He was in the same boat as Pierce, and we all know the opposite trajectories their careers went.

Not buying that excuse.
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Re: Antoine Walker was the first stretch 4
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 03:55:24 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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He was the first...no shot is a bad shot chucker