Author Topic: Roy Moore  (Read 9535 times)

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #90 on: November 21, 2017, 01:01:13 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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More on topic, here's a real quote from an actual Alabama pastor named Earl Wise:

“How these gals came up with this, I don’t know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20.”

Don't you just hate it when you set out to drop some truth bombs about how high school girls just love fantasizing over 35 year old men that look like Roy Moore and accidentally let it slip that you're totally into 14-year-olds too?

WOW. Just man. Alabama sucks. Roll Tide. Roll tide detergent everywhere. Gross.
it's mind-boggling some of the people news outlets have gotten quotes from in Alabama concerning this issue.  I can't fathom how there's grown adults in this country that excuse Moore's behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable.

wonder if Earl's allowed within 500 feet of a school after that comment?  smh

I agree.

But, Bill Clinton is an actual, violent rapist. His wife actively helped suppress that story, as well as the stories of other women Clinton harassed and abused.

Didn't most Democrats excuse that behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable?  I mean, this is Gloria Freakin’ Steinem saying that even if all the accusations from Paula Jones and Katherine Willey were true, it’s no big deal:

http://www2.edc.org/WomensEquity/edequity98/0561.html

Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, John Conyers, Al Franken, Mark Foley, and many others.  For way too long, both Washington and Hollywood have been a boys will be boys, power and control culture. Offenders belong in prison, not in office.
there were certainly those who excused Clinton's behavior back then.  I wasn't one of them. 

completely agree that those in power who commit these acts should be removed from power or kept out of office when/if the allegations against them are proven --> doesn't even have to be a court of law for criminal charges but a preponderance of evidence showing moral/ethical issues that would lead to either removal from office or preclusion for running (or at the very least, voters having enough self-respect and common decency not to vote for these people).

I noticed that you left Trump off the list -- someone by his own words has committed acts worse than some of those you listed.  you've gone on record as voting for him to get your pet cause supported while ignoring all the sexual harassment/predatory behavior he was known to commit.  how is that different?

Lesser of two evils. I thought he was the worst candidate in the GOP field, but he made it through.  If Hillary wasn’t a corrupt monster with no soul, I might not have voted for Trump.  Also, for better or for worse, you can’t trust anything said about Trump, including stuff out of his own mouth. Unlike the others, some of the allegations against Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue.
Serious question and not trying to be argumentative:  what allegations against President Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue? 
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #91 on: November 21, 2017, 01:16:46 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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More on topic, here's a real quote from an actual Alabama pastor named Earl Wise:

“How these gals came up with this, I don’t know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20.”

Don't you just hate it when you set out to drop some truth bombs about how high school girls just love fantasizing over 35 year old men that look like Roy Moore and accidentally let it slip that you're totally into 14-year-olds too?

WOW. Just man. Alabama sucks. Roll Tide. Roll tide detergent everywhere. Gross.
it's mind-boggling some of the people news outlets have gotten quotes from in Alabama concerning this issue.  I can't fathom how there's grown adults in this country that excuse Moore's behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable.

wonder if Earl's allowed within 500 feet of a school after that comment?  smh

I agree.

But, Bill Clinton is an actual, violent rapist. His wife actively helped suppress that story, as well as the stories of other women Clinton harassed and abused.

Didn't most Democrats excuse that behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable?  I mean, this is Gloria Freakin’ Steinem saying that even if all the accusations from Paula Jones and Katherine Willey were true, it’s no big deal:

http://www2.edc.org/WomensEquity/edequity98/0561.html

Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, John Conyers, Al Franken, Mark Foley, and many others.  For way too long, both Washington and Hollywood have been a boys will be boys, power and control culture. Offenders belong in prison, not in office.
there were certainly those who excused Clinton's behavior back then.  I wasn't one of them. 

completely agree that those in power who commit these acts should be removed from power or kept out of office when/if the allegations against them are proven --> doesn't even have to be a court of law for criminal charges but a preponderance of evidence showing moral/ethical issues that would lead to either removal from office or preclusion for running (or at the very least, voters having enough self-respect and common decency not to vote for these people).

I noticed that you left Trump off the list -- someone by his own words has committed acts worse than some of those you listed.  you've gone on record as voting for him to get your pet cause supported while ignoring all the sexual harassment/predatory behavior he was known to commit.  how is that different?

Lesser of two evils. I thought he was the worst candidate in the GOP field, but he made it through.  If Hillary wasn’t a corrupt monster with no soul, I might not have voted for Trump.  Also, for better or for worse, you can’t trust anything said about Trump, including stuff out of his own mouth. Unlike the others, some of the allegations against Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue.
Serious question and not trying to be argumentative:  what allegations against President Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue? 
yeah, I'd love to hear this. 

Also, I only take his bragging of self-aggrandizement with a grain of salt (well, enough salt that the salt flats in Utah look like nothing) but his bragging/admittance of boorish/harrassing behavior I take as a likely understatement.  Grabbing women by the p*****.  I think he's really tried/done that.  The intentional walking in on beauty contestants in states of undress.  that's a known thing.  The comment about dating a 10 year old in 10 years was on record and not exactly something that would be much of   a stretch for him to try.

that's not nearly all the things he's stated or much less what he's been accused of.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #92 on: November 21, 2017, 01:19:37 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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More on topic, here's a real quote from an actual Alabama pastor named Earl Wise:

“How these gals came up with this, I don’t know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20.”

Don't you just hate it when you set out to drop some truth bombs about how high school girls just love fantasizing over 35 year old men that look like Roy Moore and accidentally let it slip that you're totally into 14-year-olds too?

WOW. Just man. Alabama sucks. Roll Tide. Roll tide detergent everywhere. Gross.
it's mind-boggling some of the people news outlets have gotten quotes from in Alabama concerning this issue.  I can't fathom how there's grown adults in this country that excuse Moore's behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable.

wonder if Earl's allowed within 500 feet of a school after that comment?  smh

I agree.

But, Bill Clinton is an actual, violent rapist. His wife actively helped suppress that story, as well as the stories of other women Clinton harassed and abused.

Didn't most Democrats excuse that behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable?  I mean, this is Gloria Freakin’ Steinem saying that even if all the accusations from Paula Jones and Katherine Willey were true, it’s no big deal:

http://www2.edc.org/WomensEquity/edequity98/0561.html

Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, John Conyers, Al Franken, Mark Foley, and many others.  For way too long, both Washington and Hollywood have been a boys will be boys, power and control culture. Offenders belong in prison, not in office.
there were certainly those who excused Clinton's behavior back then.  I wasn't one of them. 

completely agree that those in power who commit these acts should be removed from power or kept out of office when/if the allegations against them are proven --> doesn't even have to be a court of law for criminal charges but a preponderance of evidence showing moral/ethical issues that would lead to either removal from office or preclusion for running (or at the very least, voters having enough self-respect and common decency not to vote for these people).

I noticed that you left Trump off the list -- someone by his own words has committed acts worse than some of those you listed.  you've gone on record as voting for him to get your pet cause supported while ignoring all the sexual harassment/predatory behavior he was known to commit.  how is that different?

Lesser of two evils. I thought he was the worst candidate in the GOP field, but he made it through.  If Hillary wasn’t a corrupt monster with no soul, I might not have voted for Trump.  Also, for better or for worse, you can’t trust anything said about Trump, including stuff out of his own mouth. Unlike the others, some of the allegations against Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue.
Serious question and not trying to be argumentative:  what allegations against President Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue?

The dossier.

The rape lawsuit was also pretty thin, but we’ll never know how that would have held up in court because the case was withdrawn.

Ivana says allegations attributed to her were untrue, and “lawyer’s words”.


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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #93 on: November 21, 2017, 01:40:06 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I agree.

But, Bill Clinton is an actual, violent rapist. His wife actively helped suppress that story, as well as the stories of other women Clinton harassed and abused.

Didn't most Democrats excuse that behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable?  I mean, this is Gloria Freakin’ Steinem saying that even if all the accusations from Paula Jones and Katherine Willey were true, it’s no big deal:

http://www2.edc.org/WomensEquity/edequity98/0561.html

Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, John Conyers, Al Franken, Mark Foley, and many others.  For way too long, both Washington and Hollywood have been a boys will be boys, power and control culture. Offenders belong in prison, not in office.

Not singling out Roy but he just tends to make his points very clearly.  Clinton was investigated by a special council (or whatever the Ken Starr investigation was officially called) that started out looking at financial allegations (Whitewater) but after finding nothing prosecutable, moved on the the other stuff and finally landing on the Monica affair.  Then Congress held impeachment hearings twice.  It is not like Clinton got off easy.

I don't want to see Moore in the US Senate and it has nothing to do with his sexually chasing children when he was in his 30's (which I believe).  I also believe that he should suffer consequences for those actions.  Any conservative (such as the Alabama governor) who comes out and says you should still vote for him, really is in a very bad place too.

I just don't get the point in raising the what about...  Either you feel it is still good that Moore gets elected or you don't.  Same with Bill Clinton, either you voted for him or you didn't (I did not).  I am not religious but what little I do know is that you are not supposed to judge or throw stones.  No human is perfect and certainly not any politician but voting means judging so we have to judge.  If you judge that Roy Moore is the kind of guy you want representing your state in the Senate, then vote for Roy but don't try to justify that vote by saying well liberals voted for Bill Clinton.  You need to own that you are voting for a likely criminal child molester who believes gays should be put in jail, and on and on...

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #94 on: November 21, 2017, 01:42:59 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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More on topic, here's a real quote from an actual Alabama pastor named Earl Wise:

“How these gals came up with this, I don’t know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20.”

Don't you just hate it when you set out to drop some truth bombs about how high school girls just love fantasizing over 35 year old men that look like Roy Moore and accidentally let it slip that you're totally into 14-year-olds too?

WOW. Just man. Alabama sucks. Roll Tide. Roll tide detergent everywhere. Gross.
it's mind-boggling some of the people news outlets have gotten quotes from in Alabama concerning this issue.  I can't fathom how there's grown adults in this country that excuse Moore's behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable.

wonder if Earl's allowed within 500 feet of a school after that comment?  smh

I agree.

But, Bill Clinton is an actual, violent rapist. His wife actively helped suppress that story, as well as the stories of other women Clinton harassed and abused.

Didn't most Democrats excuse that behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable?  I mean, this is Gloria Freakin’ Steinem saying that even if all the accusations from Paula Jones and Katherine Willey were true, it’s no big deal:

http://www2.edc.org/WomensEquity/edequity98/0561.html

Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, John Conyers, Al Franken, Mark Foley, and many others.  For way too long, both Washington and Hollywood have been a boys will be boys, power and control culture. Offenders belong in prison, not in office.
there were certainly those who excused Clinton's behavior back then.  I wasn't one of them. 

completely agree that those in power who commit these acts should be removed from power or kept out of office when/if the allegations against them are proven --> doesn't even have to be a court of law for criminal charges but a preponderance of evidence showing moral/ethical issues that would lead to either removal from office or preclusion for running (or at the very least, voters having enough self-respect and common decency not to vote for these people).

I noticed that you left Trump off the list -- someone by his own words has committed acts worse than some of those you listed.  you've gone on record as voting for him to get your pet cause supported while ignoring all the sexual harassment/predatory behavior he was known to commit.  how is that different?

Lesser of two evils. I thought he was the worst candidate in the GOP field, but he made it through.  If Hillary wasn’t a corrupt monster with no soul, I might not have voted for Trump.  Also, for better or for worse, you can’t trust anything said about Trump, including stuff out of his own mouth. Unlike the others, some of the allegations against Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue.
Serious question and not trying to be argumentative:  what allegations against President Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue?

The dossier.

The rape lawsuit was also pretty thin, but we’ll never know how that would have held up in court because the case was withdrawn.

Ivana says allegations attributed to her were untrue, and “lawyer’s words”.
That's pretty thin for "some of the allegations" and none of those are examples of where he specifically stated/admitted to reprehensible/unethical/harrassing/immoral (to everyone but him and apparently a number of politicians and other people in power) behavior.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #95 on: November 21, 2017, 02:03:09 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I just don't get the point in raising the what about...  Either you feel it is still good that Moore gets elected or you don't.  Same with Bill Clinton, either you voted for him or you didn't (I did not).  I am not religious but what little I do know is that you are not supposed to judge or throw stones.  No human is perfect and certainly not any politician but voting means judging so we have to judge.  If you judge that Roy Moore is the kind of guy you want representing your state in the Senate, then vote for Roy but don't try to justify that vote by saying well liberals voted for Bill Clinton.  You need to own that you are voting for a likely criminal child molester who believes gays should be put in jail, and on and on...

Agree about the whataboutism.

If you hit your wife, did you make a defensible choice because your neighbor did too?

If you knowingly put a guy in national office who has in the past showed a repeated behavior of using his power to prey on young women, including sexually assaulting them, is your choice somehow made better because Bill Clinton got elected?

The morality there is absurd. Just own it. For those in Alabama or those nationally who would excuse it, just say, I want to elect a probable pedophile because I care more about tax cuts and Supreme Court seats than I do about putting good people in office. Just own it.

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #96 on: November 21, 2017, 02:14:13 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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More on topic, here's a real quote from an actual Alabama pastor named Earl Wise:

“How these gals came up with this, I don’t know. They must have had some sweet dreams somewhere down the line. Plus there are some 14-year-olds, who, the way they look, could pass for 20.”

Don't you just hate it when you set out to drop some truth bombs about how high school girls just love fantasizing over 35 year old men that look like Roy Moore and accidentally let it slip that you're totally into 14-year-olds too?

WOW. Just man. Alabama sucks. Roll Tide. Roll tide detergent everywhere. Gross.
it's mind-boggling some of the people news outlets have gotten quotes from in Alabama concerning this issue.  I can't fathom how there's grown adults in this country that excuse Moore's behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable.

wonder if Earl's allowed within 500 feet of a school after that comment?  smh

I agree.

But, Bill Clinton is an actual, violent rapist. His wife actively helped suppress that story, as well as the stories of other women Clinton harassed and abused.

Didn't most Democrats excuse that behavior by any excuse they deem personally acceptable?  I mean, this is Gloria Freakin’ Steinem saying that even if all the accusations from Paula Jones and Katherine Willey were true, it’s no big deal:

http://www2.edc.org/WomensEquity/edequity98/0561.html

Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, John Conyers, Al Franken, Mark Foley, and many others.  For way too long, both Washington and Hollywood have been a boys will be boys, power and control culture. Offenders belong in prison, not in office.
there were certainly those who excused Clinton's behavior back then.  I wasn't one of them. 

completely agree that those in power who commit these acts should be removed from power or kept out of office when/if the allegations against them are proven --> doesn't even have to be a court of law for criminal charges but a preponderance of evidence showing moral/ethical issues that would lead to either removal from office or preclusion for running (or at the very least, voters having enough self-respect and common decency not to vote for these people).

I noticed that you left Trump off the list -- someone by his own words has committed acts worse than some of those you listed.  you've gone on record as voting for him to get your pet cause supported while ignoring all the sexual harassment/predatory behavior he was known to commit.  how is that different?

Lesser of two evils. I thought he was the worst candidate in the GOP field, but he made it through.  If Hillary wasn’t a corrupt monster with no soul, I might not have voted for Trump.  Also, for better or for worse, you can’t trust anything said about Trump, including stuff out of his own mouth. Unlike the others, some of the allegations against Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue.
Serious question and not trying to be argumentative:  what allegations against President Trump have been coordinated and demonstrably untrue?

The dossier.

The rape lawsuit was also pretty thin, but we’ll never know how that would have held up in court because the case was withdrawn.

Ivana says allegations attributed to her were untrue, and “lawyer’s words”.
Do we know any of those are "demonstrably untrue"?  The dossier could be untrue, partly true or true...I have not seen compelling proof either way.  Coordinated I will give you but isn't all opposition research coordinated? 

Ivana walked back statements to a certain extent but I believe in a deposition claimed she was raped and has since said she felt violated.  Regarding the deposition President Trump's lawyer said about Ivana "“she felt raped emotionally… She was not referring to it [as] a criminal matter, and not in its literal sense, though there’s many literal senses to the word.” 
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #97 on: November 21, 2017, 02:34:30 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Good news, we never have to decide whether or not to vote for Bill Clinton ever again.  And he is no longer the top campaigner for Democrats. 

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #98 on: November 21, 2017, 02:38:43 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The problem Republicans in Alabama have, is if Moore drops out, they will almost certainly lose the election to Jones.  Now maybe Jones beats Moore anyway and it is moot point, but if Moore wins, he can always resign or be removed and then a second election can be held where a better Republican candidate can be nominated and win.  Republicans can't lose this seat or they might lose the Senate in 2018 and that is why you see some of the "support" you are seeing.   Most of the 2018 Senate races are in democratic areas, so an unexpected party swing from a very strong traditional Republican base, could affect a great deal for the party as a whole.
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #99 on: November 21, 2017, 02:42:45 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Good news, we never have to decide whether or not to vote for Bill Clinton ever again.  And he is no longer the top campaigner for Democrats.

I'm still writing Ted Kennedy in every year in every election and no one can stop me.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #100 on: November 21, 2017, 03:20:23 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The problem Republicans in Alabama have, is if Moore drops out, they will almost certainly lose the election to Jones.  Now maybe Jones beats Moore anyway and it is moot point, but if Moore wins, he can always resign or be removed and then a second election can be held where a better Republican candidate can be nominated and win.  Republicans can't lose this seat or they might lose the Senate in 2018 and that is why you see some of the "support" you are seeing.   Most of the 2018 Senate races are in democratic areas, so an unexpected party swing from a very strong traditional Republican base, could affect a great deal for the party as a whole.

This is the most disgusting of the rationalizations, and it reminds me of Mitch McConnell's ridiculous theft of Merrick Garland's SC seat. The Alabama Gov has put the kibosh on some of the more outlandish maneuvers R's have to keep the seat (like having Luther Strange resign now, forcing a new special election), leaving only a write-in campaign or electing Moore and then removing him from office and replacing him.

It is a big seat. It would be a big win for Dems. How much do Alabama R's want to prevent that? How dirty is the national party going to get to assure the outcome they want?

Also under reported angle: If somehow Moore wins and then is ousted, where does that leave the Bannon-wing? Bannon has maintained his innocence as of the last time I checked. I wonder if that means that he'll declare double-secret war against establishment republicans.

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #101 on: November 21, 2017, 04:08:40 PM »

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I am just amazed that not only a pedophile will possibly be elected to that seat but a person who has such extreme views against gays, Islams, Mexicans, etc. Some of his stances are just outlandish for the 1990's America, never mind 2017 America. This is just a reprehensible individual and yet, he could be a US Senator. That boggles my mind. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised given who this country elected as President.

I just get the feeling that 100 years from now historians worldwide will point to this time as the beginning of the end of the greatness of the American empire.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #102 on: November 21, 2017, 04:09:55 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Great news, after the Press Secretary claimed the official WH position was for "the voters of Alabama to decide", the President of the United States has decided to contradict that and openly endorse the accused serial child predator, on the grounds that Moore denies it and "we don't need a liberal person in there, a Democrat". Also oddly managed to work in that most of the accusers voted for him, presumably because the conversation had veered away from himself for upwards of 10 seconds.

In fairness, Trump also denied the harassment/assault claims against Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, and himself, and history has certainly borne those out.  ::)

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #103 on: November 21, 2017, 04:13:03 PM »

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Great news, after the Press Secretary claimed the official WH position was for "the voters of Alabama to decide", the President of the United States has decided to contradict that and openly endorse the accused serial child predator, on the grounds that Moore denies it and "we don't need a liberal person in there, a Democrat". Also oddly managed to work in that most of the accusers voted for him, presumably because the conversation had veered away from himself for upwards of 10 seconds.

In fairness, Trump also denied the harassment/assault claims against Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, and himself, and history has certainly borne those out.  ::)
This is so ridiculous as to be sadly funny given his tweets against Al Franken.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #104 on: November 21, 2017, 04:35:05 PM »

Offline blink

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http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/361421-trump-on-alabama-race-we-dont-need-a-democrat-in-the-seat

you guys beat me to it.  our hypocritical lying self absorbed president thinks Roy Moore is worth endorsing.  the 2018 elections are going to get even more interesting.