Author Topic: Roy Moore  (Read 20393 times)

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2017, 04:47:44 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I don't know if this is going too far off topic or if we should just make this a general sexual assault allegation thread, but a woman has accused Bush Sr. of groping her in 1992 while President. This is the 7th woman to allege groping and the 2nd outside of the last few years (the original excuse was that he was grabbing butts accidentally because he was in a wheelchair).

So...I guess congrats to Obama and W. for seemingly being the only non-sex offender POTUSes in at least the last 30 years.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 05:38:09 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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From the look of it, both parties in congress will soon have less time on their hands to look down on Moore.   15 million payed out?   

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html


This is not a party issue.


Who know, maybe this will lead to some sweeping changes to who is in there and maybe we can get some people who can actually get something useful done.

So disgusting.

Al Franken is in the new today for kissing and growing a woman without consent. Youíre right, itís not a partisan issue. Itís a power and control, ďIíll do it because Iíll get away with itĒ issue.
I don't think he's even touching her on that "groping" picture. That seems like hogwash to me.



Contact looks pretty clear. I donít even think Franken is denying it.

Itís just not behavior that most people would be comfortable with.
yeah he admitted doing it.  said he was trying to be funny and knows he shouldn't have done it.  Also said he didn't recall the other allegation at all.
I don't know how contact is clear. Look at his left index finger. At worst, there's some incidental contact with the vest, but describing what's happening here as "groping" is awfully self-serving. It is quite horrible optics though (literally and figuratively) as a minimum, though., and he put himself in this position so he'll have to face the music.

Also, Franken doesn't admit to any sort of groping. Read the statement.

https://twitter.com/samstein/status/931215736927899648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F11%2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fal-franken-sexual-harassment-groping-forcible-kissing.html
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2017, 05:44:10 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Perspective IS a thing. I mean, this lady is clearly touching the Tower of Pisa, right?

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2017, 05:46:35 PM »

Online Roy H.

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From the look of it, both parties in congress will soon have less time on their hands to look down on Moore.   15 million payed out?   

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html


This is not a party issue.


Who know, maybe this will lead to some sweeping changes to who is in there and maybe we can get some people who can actually get something useful done.

So disgusting.

Al Franken is in the new today for kissing and growing a woman without consent. Youíre right, itís not a partisan issue. Itís a power and control, ďIíll do it because Iíll get away with itĒ issue.
I don't think he's even touching her on that "groping" picture. That seems like hogwash to me.



Contact looks pretty clear. I donít even think Franken is denying it.

Itís just not behavior that most people would be comfortable with.
yeah he admitted doing it.  said he was trying to be funny and knows he shouldn't have done it.  Also said he didn't recall the other allegation at all.
I don't know how contact is clear. Look at his left index finger. At worst, there's some incidental contact with the vest, but describing what's happening here as "groping" is awfully self-serving. It is quite horrible optics though (literally and figuratively) as a minimum, though., and he put himself in this position so he'll have to face the music.

Also, Franken doesn't admit to any sort of groping. Read the statement.

https://twitter.com/samstein/status/931215736927899648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F11%2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fal-franken-sexual-harassment-groping-forcible-kissing.html

Are you cool with a stranger touching your wife / daughter / mother like that?

If not, what are you arguing about?


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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2017, 05:50:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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From the look of it, both parties in congress will soon have less time on their hands to look down on Moore.   15 million payed out?   

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html


This is not a party issue.


Who know, maybe this will lead to some sweeping changes to who is in there and maybe we can get some people who can actually get something useful done.

So disgusting.

Al Franken is in the new today for kissing and growing a woman without consent. Youíre right, itís not a partisan issue. Itís a power and control, ďIíll do it because Iíll get away with itĒ issue.
I don't think he's even touching her on that "groping" picture. That seems like hogwash to me.



Contact looks pretty clear. I donít even think Franken is denying it.

Itís just not behavior that most people would be comfortable with.
yeah he admitted doing it.  said he was trying to be funny and knows he shouldn't have done it.  Also said he didn't recall the other allegation at all.
I don't know how contact is clear. Look at his left index finger. At worst, there's some incidental contact with the vest, but describing what's happening here as "groping" is awfully self-serving. It is quite horrible optics though (literally and figuratively) as a minimum, though., and he put himself in this position so he'll have to face the music.

Also, Franken doesn't admit to any sort of groping. Read the statement.

https://twitter.com/samstein/status/931215736927899648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F11%2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fal-franken-sexual-harassment-groping-forcible-kissing.html

Are you cool with a stranger touching your wife / daughter / mother like that?

If not, what are you arguing about?
There's no touching taking place. Way to build a strawman.

Are you cool with being accused with stuff that's deliberately misrepresented to make you look bad?
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2017, 06:04:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

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From the look of it, both parties in congress will soon have less time on their hands to look down on Moore.   15 million payed out?   

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html


This is not a party issue.


Who know, maybe this will lead to some sweeping changes to who is in there and maybe we can get some people who can actually get something useful done.

So disgusting.

Al Franken is in the new today for kissing and growing a woman without consent. Youíre right, itís not a partisan issue. Itís a power and control, ďIíll do it because Iíll get away with itĒ issue.
I don't think he's even touching her on that "groping" picture. That seems like hogwash to me.



Contact looks pretty clear. I donít even think Franken is denying it.

Itís just not behavior that most people would be comfortable with.
yeah he admitted doing it.  said he was trying to be funny and knows he shouldn't have done it.  Also said he didn't recall the other allegation at all.
I don't know how contact is clear. Look at his left index finger. At worst, there's some incidental contact with the vest, but describing what's happening here as "groping" is awfully self-serving. It is quite horrible optics though (literally and figuratively) as a minimum, though., and he put himself in this position so he'll have to face the music.

Also, Franken doesn't admit to any sort of groping. Read the statement.

https://twitter.com/samstein/status/931215736927899648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F11%2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fal-franken-sexual-harassment-groping-forcible-kissing.html

Are you cool with a stranger touching your wife / daughter / mother like that?

If not, what are you arguing about?
There's no touching taking place. Way to build a strawman.

Are you cool with being accused with stuff that's deliberately misrepresented to make you look bad?

The victim thinks she was touched, and felt humiliated. Franken hasnít denied touching her. The picture shows apparent touching.  Yet, youíre convinced it didnít happen.

Are you giving Moore the same benefit of the doubt?


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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2017, 06:19:43 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The victim thinks she was touched, and felt humiliated. Franken hasnít denied touching her. The picture shows apparent touching.  Yet, youíre convinced it didnít happen.

Are you giving Moore the same benefit of the doubt?
I'm looking at the same picture the victim was looking at to form her opinion of the situation. I don't see apparent contact. That's just me I guess. The picture situation is conjecture by all sides.

That picture is a poor taste and I can certainly understand why that person would feel humiliated. But we're setting an awfully low bar here for character assassination. Several hours ago someone popped out of the woodwork to complain that she felt harassed after she got into an argument with Franken after a talk show. What's next, a neighbor complaining that Franken trained his dog to pee on the daily paper?

I'm afraid that this is snowballing out of control and is doing a disservice to everyone who was assaulted. Being able to call a spade a spade is important. I guarantee you that people will start tuning the issue out.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 06:24:48 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2017, 06:34:00 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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From the look of it, both parties in congress will soon have less time on their hands to look down on Moore.   15 million payed out?   

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html


This is not a party issue.


Who know, maybe this will lead to some sweeping changes to who is in there and maybe we can get some people who can actually get something useful done.

So disgusting.

Al Franken is in the new today for kissing and growing a woman without consent. Youíre right, itís not a partisan issue. Itís a power and control, ďIíll do it because Iíll get away with itĒ issue.
I don't think he's even touching her on that "groping" picture. That seems like hogwash to me.



Contact looks pretty clear. I donít even think Franken is denying it.

Itís just not behavior that most people would be comfortable with.
yeah he admitted doing it.  said he was trying to be funny and knows he shouldn't have done it.  Also said he didn't recall the other allegation at all.
I don't know how contact is clear. Look at his left index finger. At worst, there's some incidental contact with the vest, but describing what's happening here as "groping" is awfully self-serving. It is quite horrible optics though (literally and figuratively) as a minimum, though., and he put himself in this position so he'll have to face the music.

Also, Franken doesn't admit to any sort of groping. Read the statement.

https://twitter.com/samstein/status/931215736927899648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F11%2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2Fal-franken-sexual-harassment-groping-forcible-kissing.html

Are you cool with a stranger touching your wife / daughter / mother like that?

If not, what are you arguing about?
There's no touching taking place. Way to build a strawman.

Are you cool with being accused with stuff that's deliberately misrepresented to make you look bad?

The victim thinks she was touched, and felt humiliated. Franken hasnít denied touching her. The picture shows apparent touching.  Yet, youíre convinced it didnít happen.

Are you giving Moore the same benefit of the doubt?

It's not bad optics -- this is behavior that men have gotten away with forever.  Many women in our country face one consistent, durable, identifiable fear in the workplace, in the community and at home -- and that is, men.  It isn't that Franken's thoughtless, humiliating behavior is the worst thing ever... it's that our culture generally has accepted that it's OK for men to humiliate, denigrate and objectify women.  What is happening now (what appears to be an opening of floodgates, but probably is only a trickle of the real volume) seems like a necessary first wave in getting the ball rolling, but I doubt it means the end male misuse of power just as the civil rights movement and the election of an African-American president did not end racism. 

The reasons it takes so long for some women to make an accusation are fundamentally reflective of what many (not all) women endure in our culture.  The question shouldn't be "why did she wait so long?", it should result in a look in the mirror -- "What do we do that cultivates the fear"? 

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2017, 06:44:03 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's not bad optics -- this is behavior that men have gotten away with forever.  Many women in our country face one consistent, durable, identifiable fear in the workplace, in the community and at home -- and that is, men.  It isn't that Franken's thoughtless, humiliating behavior is the worst thing ever... it's that our culture generally has accepted that it's OK for men to humiliate, denigrate and objectify women.  What is happening now (what appears to be an opening of floodgates, but probably is only a trickle of the real volume) seems like a necessary first wave in getting the ball rolling, but I doubt it means the end male misuse of power just as the civil rights movement and the election of an African-American president did not end racism. 

The reasons it takes so long for some women to make an accusation are fundamentally reflective of what many (not all) women endure in our culture.  The question shouldn't be "why did she wait so long?", it should result in a look in the mirror -- "What do we do that cultivates the fear"?
Sure, that's fine. Let's just remember why BLM crashed and burned so spectacularly, though.
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2017, 05:04:10 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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So apparently someone was impersonating a Jewish Washington Post reporter in an effort to discredit allegations against Moore. Seems to be in the mold of the far-right Yankee/media/Jewish conspiracy stuff.

It's both hilarious and disturbing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/14/alabama-pastor-says-man-posing-as-washington-post-reporter-offered-reward-for-dirt-on-roy-moore/?utm_term=.eb96feef027e

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2017, 05:21:34 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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clicked on the link, it is a pay site. would you able to summarize the key points for us cheaper human beings?  ;D
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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2017, 06:05:49 PM »

Offline mef730

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clicked on the link, it is a pay site. would you able to summarize the key points for us cheaper human beings?  ;D

I'll let Trevor Noah take over from here, with a special guest star:

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/3uqgx6/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-bernie-bernstein--aka-jon-stewart--crashes-the-daily-show

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Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2017, 02:49:14 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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clicked on the link, it is a pay site. would you able to summarize the key points for us cheaper human beings?  ;D

Derp, good idea

Someone had been sending out robocalls to citizens in Alabama, identifying themselves as "Bernie Bernstein form the Washington Post" sporting a fake NY Jewish accent. The caller offers $5000-$7000 for any female ages 54-57 who will who will "damaging remarks" about Roy Moore.

There is no real "Bernie Bernstein" at the Washington Post and the calls are likely meant to confirm conspiracy theories that accuse Jewish Elites of using the "mainstream media" to concoct fake news against decent godfearing men like Roy Moore.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/11/15/call-fake-washington-post-reporter-asks-damaging-info-roy-moore/865981001/
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 02:59:18 PM by kraidstar »

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2017, 03:46:40 PM »

Offline liam

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clicked on the link, it is a pay site. would you able to summarize the key points for us cheaper human beings?  ;D

Derp, good idea

Someone had been sending out robocalls to citizens in Alabama, identifying themselves as "Bernie Bernstein form the Washington Post" sporting a fake NY Jewish accent. The caller offers $5000-$7000 for any female ages 54-57 who will who will "damaging remarks" about Roy Moore.

There is no real "Bernie Bernstein" at the Washington Post and the calls are likely meant to confirm conspiracy theories that accuse Jewish Elites of using the "mainstream media" to concoct fake news against decent godfearing men like Roy Moore.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/11/15/call-fake-washington-post-reporter-asks-damaging-info-roy-moore/865981001/

It's a classic antisemitic tactic.

Re: Roy Moore
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2017, 05:57:45 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Epidemic:

https://t.co/byOZoY3WMv

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