Author Topic: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?  (Read 1117 times)

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Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« on: November 15, 2017, 08:35:51 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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Smart wants to be a starting guard and his salary will command something in the region of 13-15 million, Utah Jazz just signed Joe Ingles to a similar figure and although is a central figure for them is already 30 and by the time their team is a sudo contender he will be well past his best, but Ingles would be the perfect impact guy for us. Ingles can play small ball 4 and next to guys like Semi and Rozier could be the perfect three to create havoc against second units. I know Utah may not be our biggest fans after sort of stealing Hayward but it is actually an ideal swap for them and perhaps we can throw in a future pick and Nader to sweeten the deal.

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 08:38:00 AM »

Offline chilidawg

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When has Smart ever said he wanted to be a starting guard?  He's always been good with whatever role he plays.

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 08:46:15 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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When has Smart ever said he wanted to be a starting guard?  He's always been good with whatever role he plays.

He's good at most roles doesn't mean he doesn't want to play his natural position, he obviously wants to make starter money and you're mad if you think a player in his prime years doesn't want to start.

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 08:57:13 AM »

Offline Green-18

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When has Smart ever said he wanted to be a starting guard?  He's always been good with whatever role he plays.

He's good at most roles doesn't mean he doesn't want to play his natural position, he obviously wants to make starter money and you're mad if you think a player in his prime years doesn't want to start.

I think Marcus wants to get paid more than anything else.  The starter designation isn't important as long as he plays an important role.  He asked to come off the bench this season and has stated that he is most comfortable as a "swiss army knife".  Another reason he likes the 6th man role is because it gives him an opportunity to get a feel for the other team from the bench. 

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 09:07:31 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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I struggle with the money thing because how is your life different at $5/m a year and $15/m a year and $25/m a year?

Seems to me your life is going to be pretty amazing no matter what. My thoughts more money would cause me more stress because more people will want part of that.

Maybe it's a pride thing or maybe an extra few million a year makes a different in the comfort of life.

I get that it's a business but after the first few million what's the difference in quality of life?

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 09:21:18 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I struggle with the money thing because how is your life different at $5/m a year and $15/m a year and $25/m a year?

Seems to me your life is going to be pretty amazing no matter what. My thoughts more money would cause me more stress because more people will want part of that.

Maybe it's a pride thing or maybe an extra few million a year makes a different in the comfort of life.

I get that it's a business but after the first few million what's the difference in quality of life?

Pride definitely plays a huge role.  There's also the fact that agents push their clients hard for the best deals.  They are constantly emphasizing value relative to the rest of the league.  I'm sure family influence goes a long way too.  Then there's probably indirect peer pressure from other players to a certain extent.  I think the general expectation throughout the league is that you need to seek the biggest payday on your first run through free agency.

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 09:49:15 AM »

Online slamtheking

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Smart wants to be a starting guard and his salary will command something in the region of 13-15 million, Utah Jazz just signed Joe Ingles to a similar figure and although is a central figure for them is already 30 and by the time their team is a sudo contender he will be well past his best, but Ingles would be the perfect impact guy for us. Ingles can play small ball 4 and next to guys like Semi and Rozier could be the perfect three to create havoc against second units. I know Utah may not be our biggest fans after sort of stealing Hayward but it is actually an ideal swap for them and perhaps we can throw in a future pick and Nader to sweeten the deal.
pure unsupported speculation on your part. 

Smart actually requested to come off the bench this year so your statement that he wants to be a starting guard has no grounds in reality.  Also, it's not who starts, but who finishes games which is what Smart does a lot of for us.  That's what gets players a lot of money is how they perform in crunch time. 

He may get a deal in the 13-15 mill range.  wouldn't be a stretch.  if his preseason shooting had carried over to the regular season he'd be seeing something around 20 per year.   

Ingles wouldn't be a 'perfect' impact guy for us.  he's a bit 'old' for a player we should be looking at and if we're going to have a player making his kind of money, I'd rather have Smart. 

the only reason to consider moving him in a deal is if the C's determine Smart will command more on the market than they're willing to pay OR signing him will prevent the team from signing other crucial players such as Baynes.  We're limited to what we can offer Baynes next season and I don't think trading Marcus will free up any money under the cap where we could offer Baynes more than the MLE.  Everyone else important on the roster is cost controlled the following year and without cap space, C's won't be big players in free agency this year so trading Marcus doesn't help free up the money needed for those pursuits.

In short, I don't see the point to trading Smart.  He's showing that he is what he's always been so far this season and it's not a player that's going to get a major deal this offseason -- certainly not one that the C's wouldn't consider matching.

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 10:22:19 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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If we don't want to pay Marcus that much why would we want to pay Joe Ingles that much money?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 10:51:03 AM by Fafnir »

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 11:14:11 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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Smart wants to be a starting guard and his salary will command something in the region of 13-15 million, Utah Jazz just signed Joe Ingles to a similar figure and although is a central figure for them is already 30 and by the time their team is a sudo contender he will be well past his best, but Ingles would be the perfect impact guy for us. Ingles can play small ball 4 and next to guys like Semi and Rozier could be the perfect three to create havoc against second units. I know Utah may not be our biggest fans after sort of stealing Hayward but it is actually an ideal swap for them and perhaps we can throw in a future pick and Nader to sweeten the deal.
pure unsupported speculation on your part. 

Smart actually requested to come off the bench this year so your statement that he wants to be a starting guard has no grounds in reality.  Also, it's not who starts, but who finishes games which is what Smart does a lot of for us.  That's what gets players a lot of money is how they perform in crunch time. 

He may get a deal in the 13-15 mill range.  wouldn't be a stretch.  if his preseason shooting had carried over to the regular season he'd be seeing something around 20 per year.   

Ingles wouldn't be a 'perfect' impact guy for us.  he's a bit 'old' for a player we should be looking at and if we're going to have a player making his kind of money, I'd rather have Smart. 

the only reason to consider moving him in a deal is if the C's determine Smart will command more on the market than they're willing to pay OR signing him will prevent the team from signing other crucial players such as Baynes.  We're limited to what we can offer Baynes next season and I don't think trading Marcus will free up any money under the cap where we could offer Baynes more than the MLE.  Everyone else important on the roster is cost controlled the following year and without cap space, C's won't be big players in free agency this year so trading Marcus doesn't help free up the money needed for those pursuits.

In short, I don't see the point to trading Smart.  He's showing that he is what he's always been so far this season and it's not a player that's going to get a major deal this offseason -- certainly not one that the C's wouldn't consider matching.

Smart requested to come off the bench because he wants to run the team at is favourite position at the point he wants to play point guard and he knows he's going to get payed more the better his stats and peformance...which is at point.

Enlighten me about how my words are unfounded but your general god like statement of he wouldn't be perfect is apt? His league high in threes isn't perfect? His off the bench playmaking isn't perfect? His versatility in Stevens system (similar to Turner but with shooting) isn't perfect? The fact that we are lacking in all of these things from our bench isn't perfect enough? What about the fact that his deal actually depreciates in value as he ages or the fact he is a very good friend of Haywards?

If 30 is too old for a team that wants to contend then perhaps we should be trading Horford too?

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 09:56:56 AM »

Offline iadera

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Why the hell would we need Slow-mo Joe Ingles, especially as an roster upgrade?

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 10:20:55 AM »

Offline eja117

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If we don't want to pay Marcus that much why would we want to pay Joe Ingles that much money?
Poorly run franchises do weird stuff

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 10:27:34 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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If we don't want to pay Marcus that much why would we want to pay Joe Ingles that much money?
Poorly run franchises do weird stuff
You think the C's are poorly run?

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 10:41:42 AM »

Online slamtheking

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Smart wants to be a starting guard and his salary will command something in the region of 13-15 million, Utah Jazz just signed Joe Ingles to a similar figure and although is a central figure for them is already 30 and by the time their team is a sudo contender he will be well past his best, but Ingles would be the perfect impact guy for us. Ingles can play small ball 4 and next to guys like Semi and Rozier could be the perfect three to create havoc against second units. I know Utah may not be our biggest fans after sort of stealing Hayward but it is actually an ideal swap for them and perhaps we can throw in a future pick and Nader to sweeten the deal.
pure unsupported speculation on your part. 

Smart actually requested to come off the bench this year so your statement that he wants to be a starting guard has no grounds in reality.  Also, it's not who starts, but who finishes games which is what Smart does a lot of for us.  That's what gets players a lot of money is how they perform in crunch time. 

He may get a deal in the 13-15 mill range.  wouldn't be a stretch.  if his preseason shooting had carried over to the regular season he'd be seeing something around 20 per year.   

Ingles wouldn't be a 'perfect' impact guy for us.  he's a bit 'old' for a player we should be looking at and if we're going to have a player making his kind of money, I'd rather have Smart. 

the only reason to consider moving him in a deal is if the C's determine Smart will command more on the market than they're willing to pay OR signing him will prevent the team from signing other crucial players such as Baynes.  We're limited to what we can offer Baynes next season and I don't think trading Marcus will free up any money under the cap where we could offer Baynes more than the MLE.  Everyone else important on the roster is cost controlled the following year and without cap space, C's won't be big players in free agency this year so trading Marcus doesn't help free up the money needed for those pursuits.

In short, I don't see the point to trading Smart.  He's showing that he is what he's always been so far this season and it's not a player that's going to get a major deal this offseason -- certainly not one that the C's wouldn't consider matching.

Smart requested to come off the bench because he wants to run the team at is favourite position at the point he wants to play point guard and he knows he's going to get payed more the better his stats and peformance...which is at point.

Enlighten me about how my words are unfounded but your general god like statement of he wouldn't be perfect is apt? His league high in threes isn't perfect? His off the bench playmaking isn't perfect? His versatility in Stevens system (similar to Turner but with shooting) isn't perfect? The fact that we are lacking in all of these things from our bench isn't perfect enough? What about the fact that his deal actually depreciates in value as he ages or the fact he is a very good friend of Haywards?

If 30 is too old for a team that wants to contend then perhaps we should be trading Horford too?
ok - so your statement about him wanting to be a starter is now verified as incorrect based on what you're stating now --> correct?   

as for Ingles, I quoted "perfect" because that's a pretty high standard to hit.  a "perfect" fit would be someone younger than Ingles that provides what Smart does but with better offense at the same price which isn't going to happen. 

Would Ingles be a good addition to the team?  sure.  didn't say he wouldn't be.  would he be the "perfect" fit?  - no.   Would I swap Marcus for him? -- I would not.

Ingles: 30 years old.  4th year in league.  averaged 5.0, 4.2 & 7.1 ppg the previous 3 years.  Career average 5.7 ppg
Smart: 23 years old. 4th year in league.  averaged 7.8, 9.7 & 10.6 ppg the previous 3 years.  Career average 9.3 ppg

This Season:
Ingles: 6'8" SF
10.1 PPG, 434% FG%, 4.5 rb, 3.5 asst, 1.53 stl, .2 blk, 1.8 to, 2.3 fouls, 436% 3FG%, 29 MPG
Salary this year and going forward: 14.136 mill, 13.045 mill, 11.954 mill, 10.863 mill

Smart: 6'4" PG
9.6 PPG, 281% FG%, 4.4 rb, 5.5 asst, 1.54 stl, .31 blk, 2.2 to, 2.2 fouls, 276% 3FG%, 30 MPG
Salary this year and going forward: 4.538 mill, 6.053 mill (qualifiying offer)

Smart's shooting has been abnormally off so far this season.  for his career it's been in the 350% range (which still isn't good) so I'm anticipating some improvement in this regard as the season progresses.  sure, speculation on my part but the career stats so far make this a reasonable expectation.

Smart's shooting is also likely to keep his future contract in the same range as Ingles' current deal.  Think about that for a second --Smart is that good in every other aspect of his game and his impact on the court that he could get a contract similar to Ingles despite his shooting percentage. 
Considering his fit, hustle and knack for making big plays down the stretch of games, there's really no reason to make that deal.  Ingles is more of a forward which we have plenty of right now.  He's on a team that could really use scoring and lacks a star that he would have to defer to on offense so I don't really see him as much of an improvement.  sure, he shoots a better percentage but he's not producing a lot for a team that needs him to and at his age, he's can't really be expected to improve much from what he already is. 

Still not seeing the upside of this deal for the C's.

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 11:16:04 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I don't think Joe Ingles is that 'sexy' option most people anticipated when clicking on this thread. If people are going to trade their 'favorite Celtic' (which Smart is for many people), I think we need to come up with better/younger/cheaper options than Joe Ingles.

Like, say if it looked like the LAL pick was almost definitely not going to convey this draft (meaning no young big with potential), would people consider trading Smart for say Skal Labissiere? He was previously the #1 rated prospect in his draft (which Ainge loves), has two additional bargain-basement years left on his contract after this one, and can stretch the floor.

I am not saying that this is the deal to make or that Sac would go for it, but I don't know too many CBers who are going to be jumping for joy over Ingles. TP for thinking out the box, though.

Edit: I also see that you changed your giant Len Bias pick to a normal sized one - way to join the rest of us  ;)

Re: Marcus Smart sign and trade option?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 11:26:44 AM »

Online saltlover

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Firstly, if I had to choose between paying Marcus Smart $13 million and Joe Ingles $13 million, my answer is Smart.

Secondly, the Jazz would have to pay Smart $20.7 million for his salary to match with Ingles in a trade.  If the Jazz are willing to pay that much for Smart, they’re probably not making a sign-and-trade, because the Celtics aren’t going to go that high to keep him.

If a sign-and-trade occurs, it will likely be for a pick in the future, as a way to buy the Celtics off from matching.  The reasons for the Celtics to let Smart go are the luxury tax and an impending roster squeeze with five potential 1st rounders in two years.  Getting a salary back like Ingles doesn’t make much sense.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 11:40:04 AM by saltlover »