Author Topic: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?  (Read 1659 times)

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Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 01:09:41 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
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Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 01:10:42 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Finally they clearly thought Fultz was good enough that there was a good chance we'd take him #1 if they didn't trade up to snag him. Oops!
Lakers reportedly would have taken Fultz over Ball, so I think they thought the only way to get him was to trade up.

If they viewed Tatum as a 4 it makes more sense, especially if they didn't want Ball (two ball handlers who can't shoot is a no go)
if they viewed Tatum as a 4 in this era of positionless basketball, it makes more sense that their GM And front office is a joke.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 01:13:27 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
exactly. The signs were there. Even during phillys workout we all saw he shot badly: https://youtu.be/aUmw6anaSps

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2017, 01:19:14 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

He even looked pretty darned good in the Summer League.  Something happened in between SL and the preseason.  Did he get some bad advice from a trainer and try to change his shot?  Was he injured?

If he can just revert back to what he was doing in SL he'll be fine.  He has the skills.  The only question is whether he has some sort of confidence issue that he can't get over.

I expect he'll return to form and by the end of the year he'll be a key part of their rotation.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 01:20:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Finally they clearly thought Fultz was good enough that there was a good chance we'd take him #1 if they didn't trade up to snag him. Oops!
Lakers reportedly would have taken Fultz over Ball, so I think they thought the only way to get him was to trade up.

If they viewed Tatum as a 4 it makes more sense, especially if they didn't want Ball (two ball handlers who can't shoot is a no go)

That's interesting, I hadn't heard that. Makes the deal make more sense for them because Ball and Simmons would be a really bad fit.
There was so much Ball hype I'm not surprised you missed it. I think they were leaking reports because they thought the C's might take Tatum/Jackson and that's why Magic wasn't 100% in on the Ball hype till he knew Fultz wasn't going to be available.

There was a period where articles like this were out there from very connected Lakers reportser: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2714648-lonzo-ball-may-be-a-star-but-los-angeles-lakers-have-questions-ahead-of-draft

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 01:21:37 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I think Philly is still all about taking the best talent and figuring out later, especially with Embiid's injury history and Okafor being a bust for them.

I find it interesting that Philly and the consensus view chose to ignore winning in the calculus. They also chose to ignore potential shooting issues, as well as potential defensive issues and health issues. Fultz missed a decent amount of time near the end of his one year in college.

Maybe Tatum appeared to be "less athletic", but he was polished and ready to contribute. I think he would have been a perfect fit next to high end potential players in Simmons and Embiid.

I know its super early, but I think there's a chance that Fultz is just another high end pick (like Noel and Okafor) that is not part of Philly's long term plan.

Didn't those also apply to Tatum?  He was a good FT and midrange shooter, but there were questions about his 3 pointer.  He wasn't a great defender in college, either, although he was considered to have good "defensive potential" (as was Fultz).  Tatum also missed time his freshman year (not appearing in any of Duke's first 8 games after he sprained his foot in October)

Fultz definitely had some question marks/red flags, but let's not pretend that Tatum didn't have some as well
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Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2017, 01:23:48 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
There was somewhat but he shot better than Tatum everywhere except from the line. Even if he wasn't an elite shooter he projected well onto adequate territory for a PG with his ability to drive and passing ability.

Instead it became a disaster of near Lonzo Ball proportions with regards to his shot.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2017, 01:29:06 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think Philly is still all about taking the best talent and figuring out later, especially with Embiid's injury history and Okafor being a bust for them.

I find it interesting that Philly and the consensus view chose to ignore winning in the calculus. They also chose to ignore potential shooting issues, as well as potential defensive issues and health issues. Fultz missed a decent amount of time near the end of his one year in college.

Maybe Tatum appeared to be "less athletic", but he was polished and ready to contribute. I think he would have been a perfect fit next to high end potential players in Simmons and Embiid.

I know its super early, but I think there's a chance that Fultz is just another high end pick (like Noel and Okafor) that is not part of Philly's long term plan.

Didn't those also apply to Tatum?  He was a good FT and midrange shooter, but there were questions about his 3 pointer.  He wasn't a great defender in college, either, although he was considered to have good "defensive potential" (as was Fultz).  Tatum also missed time his freshman year (not appearing in any of Duke's first 8 games after he sprained his foot in October)

Fultz definitely had some question marks/red flags, but let's not pretend that Tatum didn't have some as well

I was impressed by how Tatum improved as his team got into the conference and even NCAA tourney. Unlike Fultz and Harry Giles, he led his team to meaningful wins at the end of the year (besides their loss to S. Carolina).

Having hindsight is huge, but I think people were attracted to Fultz's flashy game and Damian Lillard/Harden projections. At this point (super early), I'm not sure if he will be better than D'angelo Russell.

On the other hand (wearing green goggles mind you), the sky is the limit for Tatum. He looks just as good as Pierce in his rookie year.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 01:32:42 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
exactly. The signs were there. Even during phillys workout we all saw he shot badly: https://youtu.be/aUmw6anaSps
Wow. That looks so bad.

Ballhandling looks poor, brings the ball down on spot-up shots, can't make threes, free throws have a hitch.

If I didn't know better, I'd guess it was Demetrius Jackson of Phil Pressey working out.
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Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 01:39:14 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
exactly. The signs were there. Even during phillys workout we all saw he shot badly: https://youtu.be/aUmw6anaSps
Wow. That looks so bad.

Ballhandling looks poor, brings the ball down on spot-up shots, can't make threes, free throws have a hitch.

If I didn't know better, I'd guess it was Demetrius Jackson of Phil Pressey working out.

The other side of this argument is "everyone else thought he'd be a perennial all star". Fortunately, Danny and Brad aren't everyone else.

They clearly saw some alarming things in Fultz's workouts. I imagine Tatum looked NBA ready in his Celtics workouts.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2017, 01:40:56 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
exactly. The signs were there. Even during phillys workout we all saw he shot badly: https://youtu.be/aUmw6anaSps
Wow. That looks so bad.

Ballhandling looks poor, brings the ball down on spot-up shots, can't make threes, free throws have a hitch.

If I didn't know better, I'd guess it was Demetrius Jackson of Phil Pressey working out.

The other side of this argument is "everyone else thought he'd be a perennial all star". Fortunately, Danny and Brad aren't everyone else.

They clearly saw some alarming things in Fultz's workouts. I imagine Tatum looked NBA ready in his Celtics workouts.
yup the rumor was he had a bad workout in Boston too. Danny was asked how the workout went


“You know how I feel about workouts by themselves,” he said. “You don’t really take much from them.”

Ainge was reluctant to go into detail about impressions of the workout because the Celtics remain in the early stages of their draft preparations. But he said there was value in spending time with Fultz and learning more about him, both as a person and a player.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2017, 01:45:15 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
exactly. The signs were there. Even during phillys workout we all saw he shot badly: https://youtu.be/aUmw6anaSps
Wow. That looks so bad.

Ballhandling looks poor, brings the ball down on spot-up shots, can't make threes, free throws have a hitch.

If I didn't know better, I'd guess it was Demetrius Jackson of Phil Pressey working out.

The other side of this argument is "everyone else thought he'd be a perennial all star". Fortunately, Danny and Brad aren't everyone else.

They clearly saw some alarming things in Fultz's workouts. I imagine Tatum looked NBA ready in his Celtics workouts.

Or, they simply saw a lot of good things in Tatum.

It's a false dichotomy to assert that because they liked Tatum (plus a pick) more that they must have NOT liked Fultz.   

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Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2017, 01:46:10 PM »

Offline RIPRED

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

He even looked pretty darned good in the Summer League.  Something happened in between SL and the preseason.  Did he get some bad advice from a trainer and try to change his shot?  Was he injured?

If he can just revert back to what he was doing in SL he'll be fine.  He has the skills.  The only question is whether he has some sort of confidence issue that he can't get over.

I expect he'll return to form and by the end of the year he'll be a key part of their rotation.

There is a massive difference in the quality of competition he faced in SL versus what he currently faces in the NBA.

Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2017, 01:48:15 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Fultz's shooting was not an issue in college! The fact that it's become an issue is the reason everyone is freaking out, he was a good shooter in college.

To be fair, there were questions about how his shooting would translate based on his 65% on free throws.  But yeah, it wasn't nearly as big of a concern as it is now.
exactly. The signs were there. Even during phillys workout we all saw he shot badly: https://youtu.be/aUmw6anaSps
Wow. That looks so bad.

Ballhandling looks poor, brings the ball down on spot-up shots, can't make threes, free throws have a hitch.

If I didn't know better, I'd guess it was Demetrius Jackson of Phil Pressey working out.

The other side of this argument is "everyone else thought he'd be a perennial all star". Fortunately, Danny and Brad aren't everyone else.

They clearly saw some alarming things in Fultz's workouts. I imagine Tatum looked NBA ready in his Celtics workouts.
There was talk that Fultz didn't shoot great during his Celtics workout either.

I can see what the team may have loved about Tatum: well-spoken, strong family background, character guy, spent one year in a great college program. But I doubt even they imagined things were going to unfold as they have so far.
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Re: Why Did Philly Take Fultz over Tatum?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2017, 01:50:53 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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yup the rumor was he had a bad workout in Boston too. Danny was asked how the workout went


“You know how I feel about workouts by themselves,” he said. “You don’t really take much from them.”

Ainge was reluctant to go into detail about impressions of the workout because the Celtics remain in the early stages of their draft preparations. But he said there was value in spending time with Fultz and learning more about him, both as a person and a player.
http://www.weei.com/blogs/weei/espns-jeff-goodman-dh-markelle-fultz-didn%E2%80%99t-shoot-ball-well-workout-celtics
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