Author Topic: People need to cool the Kyrie hype  (Read 3288 times)

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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2017, 08:50:39 AM »

Online Surferdad

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!

Does hitting one shot make a guy the most important guy in a series? Or the “main reason” a team won the series?

Was Steve Kerr more important than Jordan? Was Horry more important than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan?

Nothing against Kyrie, it’s just indisputable that Lebron was the primary reason the Cavs won that title.

Yikes- we're now comparing Kyrie to Steve Kerr? Kerr averaged 6 points a game in his 910 NBA games. The only thing they have in common is that they hit championship winning shots.

Lebron was clearly the #1 on Cleveland, but Kyrie was clearly the #2.

"Nothing against Kyrie?" You just compared him to Steve Kerr. We know that you don't like Kyrie, but come on man!

I compared them in the sense that a series-clinching shot doesn’t make the shot-maker the primary reason his team won.

Kyrie was the second best player. There’s no shame in that, but the gap between he and Lebron is a significant one.
The gap between LeBron and anyone is significant.  Kyrie was not only the 2nd best player, he was in the top-10 in the league at the time in some people's minds.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2017, 08:55:01 AM »

Offline incoherent

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Hey everyone. 

I want you to completely ignore everything you see with your own eyes.

Instead look at these numbers, see them? Now has your opinion of Kyrie changed?


Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2017, 08:56:33 AM »

Offline incoherent

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In this thread:  People who didn't like the Kyrie trade grasping at straws.

I mean guys, he was the 2nd best player on a championship team. He wasn't even better then Lebron.

When are the Celtics finally going to get their number 1 guy? Are we still 1 trade away?


Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2017, 09:14:29 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Hey everyone. 

I want you to completely ignore everything you see with your own eyes.

Instead look at these numbers, see them? Now has your opinion of Kyrie changed?

Objective stats are a good way to tell if the “eye test” is reliable. People shouldn’t be chastised for doing a statistical comparison, whether it be standard individual stats, advanced stats, or team stats.

The stats tell us the team is better, the defense is much better and the offense is worse. Kyrie is playing good defense but has struggled with his shot and isn’t getting to the line much.

Is any of that controversial?


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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2017, 09:27:35 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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Hey everyone. 

I want you to completely ignore everything you see with your own eyes.

Instead look at these numbers, see them? Now has your opinion of Kyrie changed?

Objective stats are a good way to tell if the “eye test” is reliable. People shouldn’t be chastised for doing a statistical comparison, whether it be standard individual stats, advanced stats, or team stats.

The stats tell us the team is better, the defense is much better and the offense is worse. Kyrie is playing good defense but has struggled with his shot and isn’t getting to the line much.

Is any of that controversial?

Pretty spot on from what my eyes have seen so far.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2017, 10:09:55 AM »

Offline Green-18

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Hey everyone. 

I want you to completely ignore everything you see with your own eyes.

Instead look at these numbers, see them? Now has your opinion of Kyrie changed?

Objective stats are a good way to tell if the “eye test” is reliable. People shouldn’t be chastised for doing a statistical comparison, whether it be standard individual stats, advanced stats, or team stats.

The stats tell us the team is better, the defense is much better and the offense is worse. Kyrie is playing good defense but has struggled with his shot and isn’t getting to the line much.

Is any of that controversial?

Pretty spot on from what my eyes have seen so far.

I think the decline in offense has more to do with a lack of continuity than Kyrie's shooting inconsistency.  Our teams 3pt% is nearly identical to last year and we are getting to the free throw line 5 more times per game.  These are all great signs indicating that our offense should be on par with last seasons by the end of the year. 

The loss of Bradley, Crowder, and Olynyk has has definitely hurt our execution in half court sets.  Crowder was part of our two best offensive lineups going by offensive rating.  Bradley was part of our second best.  This speaks to the value of having a group together for 2+ seasons in Brad's system.  Fortunately these are all short term issues that will be corrected with practice and repetition.   

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2017, 10:23:27 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I've been pretty happy with his play.  He sometimes drifts into hero ball mode which can be aggravating and once in a while takes some ill advised shots but IT was doing the same thing.    Still think he's a talent upgrade from IT and he's been able to gel with this roster right off the bat which was a concern I had going into the season.  Thought it might take some time but it really hasn't. 


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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2017, 10:45:53 AM »

Offline lbgreen33

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I think the loss of Larry Bird has really hurt our 3 point shooting.  This is the team we have now!
You can review stats and not be happy all day long. Or just enjoy the ride!
I choose to just enjoy the ride!

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2017, 10:52:22 AM »

Offline Big333223

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I think the hype has been twofold. One, his defense is has matched even the wildest hopes of Kyrie fans, so far. Two, while his raw scoring numbers aren't any better than they've always been, the way he's scoring those points is different. He's playing a team game, getting everyone involved and allowing himself to be a background player in an effort to get others' into rhythm but then he's still been there in clutch moments when he's needed.

So that's why I'm hyped about Kyrie, even though his raw numbers don't show a ton of improvement.

That and because the C's are on a 12 game win streak, there's not much that could diminish my general hype about this team right now.  ;D

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2017, 11:00:28 AM »

Offline incoherent

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The reason I have a problem with using stats sometimes, is that people have used them here to say that IT is a better player then Kyrie. 

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2017, 11:11:45 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I've been pretty happy with his play.  He sometimes drifts into hero ball mode which can be aggravating and once in a while takes some ill advised shots but IT was doing the same thing.    Still think he's a talent upgrade from IT and he's been able to gel with this roster right off the bat which was a concern I had going into the season.  Thought it might take some time but it really hasn't.
Yeah he's trying to do the right things and playing hard on D overall.

My main complaint is his shot isn't falling right now, compared to his past performance with similar shots. That should turn around.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2017, 11:35:10 AM »

Offline Granath

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Hear me out!

I love how Kyrie is functioning in our offence and I think he is only going to improve, but pundits and fans alike have been raving about how much Irving has changed this season but if you look at his statistics this year in comparison to his career they are almost identical.

Career: 21.6 PPG 3.4 RPG 5.5 AST / 45.6 FG% 38.1 FG3%  87.3 FT%
17/18: 20.3 PPG 3.1 RPG 5.2 AST / 44.4 FG% 32.1 FG3%  88.4 FT%

Kyrie seems much more engaged on defence but his steals averages have only slightly increased from 1.3 career to 1.9 so it hasn't been the dramatic change that the media's narrative has spun.

I disagree, And this is from someone who loves Isaiah Thomas.

He is trending towards being a much more complete plater now.

And 1.3 to 1.9 is a 50% increase. That's pretty substantial.

That 1.9 is an unsustainable rate on a small sample size. It was 2.3 just three games ago. He'll regress much closer to his career average.

That's not to say he won't be playing good defense. But anyone who is trotting out the steals number as proof of his defensive prowess is asking for trouble.
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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2017, 12:05:18 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think the loss of Larry Bird has really hurt our 3 point shooting.  This is the team we have now!
You can review stats and not be happy all day long. Or just enjoy the ride!
I choose to just enjoy the ride!

Haha TP.

We really could use Havlicek's timely steals, as well as Tiny Archibald's coast to coast abilities. McHale and Parish would fit nicely on this team.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Steals is not the only defensive statistic. You are completely ignoring all actual defensive  stats


“It's not just the steals or Boston's defensive rating when Irving is on the court, it's his obvious effort and desire to contribute on that end of the floor.

In his six seasons in Cleveland, Irving held an average defensive rating of 106.9. Through 11 games with Boston, that number is down 11.4 points to 95.5, even lower than Boston's league-best rating of 95.9.”

“Kyrie Irving is putting up some of the best individual numbers of his career this season. Here's a look at his career defensive rating via NBA data, as well as his points allowed per possession via Synergy Sports data.” http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21329484/kyrie-irving-boston-celtics-flat-dominating-defense

Umm.... I don't know where you are getting your defensive rating numbers, but per nbawowy.com, so far this season Kyrie has been on the floor for 767 defensive possessions during which the opponents have scored 802 points which is a defensive rating of 104.5 points per 100 possessions.

With Kyrie OFF the floor, the team has surrendered 511 points on 509 defensive possessions for a defensive rating of 100.5 points per 100 possessions.

If you are using the individual Defensive Rating numbers from basketball-reference.com, keep in mind that those are estimates, not measurements.  And they give Aron Baynes the same 111 offensive rating as they do to Kyrie, when in fact the team has actually only scored 103.5 points per 100 offensive possessions with Aron on the floor.  In other words, I would take those numbers with a big grain of salt.
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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2017, 01:10:22 PM »

Offline GreenShooter

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