Author Topic: People need to cool the Kyrie hype  (Read 3289 times)

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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 11:44:18 PM »

Online tarheelsxxiii

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Sample sizes this year are still way too small to start making any meaningful inferences.  DRtg, like most defensive stats, is incredibly flawed.  To my knowledge, it's essentially a +/- on steroids, and corrects for things like pace and teammate contributions.  But it does a very poor job of isolating individual contributions and is reliant on stats as they're quantified and reported on sites like Bballref.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2017, 12:39:54 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Sample sizes this year are still way too small to start making any meaningful inferences.  DRtg, like most defensive stats, is incredibly flawed.  To my knowledge, it's essentially a +/- on steroids, and corrects for things like pace and teammate contributions.  But it does a very poor job of isolating individual contributions and is reliant on stats as they're quantified and reported on sites like Bballref.

Yeah yeah we get it, you hate Kyrie.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2017, 12:54:16 AM »

Online tarheelsxxiii

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Sample sizes this year are still way too small to start making any meaningful inferences.  DRtg, like most defensive stats, is incredibly flawed.  To my knowledge, it's essentially a +/- on steroids, and corrects for things like pace and teammate contributions.  But it does a very poor job of isolating individual contributions and is reliant on stats as they're quantified and reported on sites like Bballref.

Yeah yeah we get it, you hate Kyrie.

Really wasn't my point.  IT was a horrible defender, worst than Kyrie will be in Boston.  Defensive stats have always seemed way too flawed to take seriously imo.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2017, 01:15:25 AM »

Offline liam

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Sample sizes this year are still way too small to start making any meaningful inferences.  DRtg, like most defensive stats, is incredibly flawed.  To my knowledge, it's essentially a +/- on steroids, and corrects for things like pace and teammate contributions.  But it does a very poor job of isolating individual contributions and is reliant on stats as they're quantified and reported on sites like Bballref.

Yeah yeah we get it, you hate Kyrie.

Really wasn't my point.  IT was a horrible defender, worst than Kyrie will be in Boston.  Defensive stats have always seemed way too flawed to take seriously imo.

Stats do not explain basketball well like they do for baseball. Their are too intangibles. You can see someone having a great game with average stats and you can see someone filling up the stats having a bad to mediocre game. Basketball is a team sport and win loss is the best judgement on how good a team is.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2017, 01:21:29 AM »

Online tarheelsxxiii

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Sample sizes this year are still way too small to start making any meaningful inferences.  DRtg, like most defensive stats, is incredibly flawed.  To my knowledge, it's essentially a +/- on steroids, and corrects for things like pace and teammate contributions.  But it does a very poor job of isolating individual contributions and is reliant on stats as they're quantified and reported on sites like Bballref.

Yeah yeah we get it, you hate Kyrie.

Really wasn't my point.  IT was a horrible defender, worst than Kyrie will be in Boston.  Defensive stats have always seemed way too flawed to take seriously imo.

Stats do not explain basketball well like they do for baseball. Their are too intangibles. You can see someone having a great game with average stats and you can see someone filling up the stats having a bad to mediocre game. Basketball is a team sport and win loss is the best judgement on how good a team is.

I agree, and would think that also explains why Bradley was so well-respected even when his advanced defensive stats weren't world-beating at the time. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2017, 02:58:31 AM »

Online Androslav

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You guys can cool off all you want.
Octobers/Novembers numbers mean nothing to me when I have seen the future.
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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2017, 05:29:21 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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Who gives a flying #### about Stats. It’s about winning and Irving is a winner !

Some of these post are ridiculous!

Just win the game!
LOL what? "Irving is a winner" so you're telling me there are only select few "winners" out there? What was Isaiah last year, "not a winner"?

How do you even determine that.  ???  :P
By rings. One to nothing.

Okay that's pretty ridiculous.

So by that logic, all the guys like Iman Shumpert, Matthew Dellavedova, etc. are all pure winners? You actually would think that?
It’s a simplified answer. But if you’re one of the main reasons, perhaps the main reason that team got the ring then you’re a winner.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2017, 06:05:01 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Who gives a flying #### about Stats. It’s about winning and Irving is a winner !

Some of these post are ridiculous!

Just win the game!
LOL what? "Irving is a winner" so you're telling me there are only select few "winners" out there? What was Isaiah last year, "not a winner"?

How do you even determine that.  ???  :P
By rings. One to nothing.

Okay that's pretty ridiculous.

So by that logic, all the guys like Iman Shumpert, Matthew Dellavedova, etc. are all pure winners? You actually would think that?
It’s a simplified answer. But if you’re one of the main reasons, perhaps the main reason that team got the ring then you’re a winner.

“Perhaps the main reason” the Cavs got a ring?




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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2017, 06:51:05 AM »

Offline lbgreen33

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!
Whatever, the Celtics are my favorite team and to me that means you Love your team. This is our point guard and I for one am a huge fan! Stats are cool I guess, but this is my team! So yes I love the players on the Celtics! I just love being a Celtics Fan!! They have given me so much joy through the years! They are winning right now and people are finding things to complain about??
Oh well, sending out my love to Kyrie and this whole Celtics team, Thank You!!!!!!

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2017, 07:17:19 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!

Does hitting one shot make a guy the most important guy in a series? Or the “main reason” a team won the series?

Was Steve Kerr more important than Jordan? Was Horry more important than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan?

Nothing against Kyrie, it’s just indisputable that Lebron was the primary reason the Cavs won that title.


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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 07:28:13 AM »

Online Androslav

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Who gives a flying #### about Stats. It’s about winning and Irving is a winner !

Some of these post are ridiculous!

Just win the game!
LOL what? "Irving is a winner" so you're telling me there are only select few "winners" out there? What was Isaiah last year, "not a winner"?

How do you even determine that.  ???  :P
By rings. One to nothing.

Okay that's pretty ridiculous.

So by that logic, all the guys like Iman Shumpert, Matthew Dellavedova, etc. are all pure winners? You actually would think that?
It’s a simplified answer. But if you’re one of the main reasons, perhaps the main reason that team got the ring then you’re a winner.

“Perhaps the main reason” the Cavs got a ring?


He, pictured one, LBJ, is the main reason no doubt (if Kyrie at age 24 was better than him than league needs to change its marketing philosophy) Kyrie chipped in with 27.1 PPG on 47 fg%.
Also, Curry injury and Dray suspension gave Cleveland a chance in the 1st place.
Lebron left Cleveland for the 1st time cause he didn't have a scorer like Kyrie by his side.
He returned because a scorer like Kyrie was there then and they had the 1st pick in the draft to trade freely. LBJ wouldn't win without him in Cleveland, I think that's pretty clear to everyone. Did we ever diminish McHale's impact cause he wasn't as good as Larry?

This other thing, the winner talk is a nonsense IMO. If you make it in the league you are a winner in my book, as you are in the 99,99999th percentile (every 19th million human) of the most successful humans that play basketball in the world. Skill, popularity and earning wise. That's like 1 out of every living Dutch, Kazakh or Romanian.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
Divide about 400 players that stick for more than 3 years with that number. Eg. Stockton isn't a loser or not a winner. Manute Bol, born in Sudan too or even Rex Chapman who never won a chip. They all overcame many, many obstacles and sacrifices to reach their goal.

I think that in general, many people mistake physical or skill deficiency for a guy being a loser. While common logic would tell us that being deficient in those areas clearly makes you less probable to win in the league.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 07:58:23 AM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 07:30:25 AM »

Offline lbgreen33

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!

Does hitting one shot make a guy the most important guy in a series? Or the “main reason” a team won the series?

Was Steve Kerr more important than Jordan? Was Horry more important than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan?

Nothing against Kyrie, it’s just indisputable that Lebron was the primary reason the Cavs won that title.

The simple answer to that question is yes, that is why it is called the series winning shot.

But, I will not debate the Lebron is Lebron and the reason they were even there in the first place. Also, the reason Miami won the finals when he was there, that still takes nothing away from Dwade and the other players on the Heat team at the time.

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 08:10:33 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!

Does hitting one shot make a guy the most important guy in a series? Or the “main reason” a team won the series?

Was Steve Kerr more important than Jordan? Was Horry more important than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan?

Nothing against Kyrie, it’s just indisputable that Lebron was the primary reason the Cavs won that title.

Yikes- we're now comparing Kyrie to Steve Kerr? Kerr averaged 6 points a game in his 910 NBA games. The only thing they have in common is that they hit championship winning shots.

Lebron was clearly the #1 on Cleveland, but Kyrie was clearly the #2.

"Nothing against Kyrie?" You just compared him to Steve Kerr. We know that you don't like Kyrie, but come on man!

Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 08:20:25 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!

Does hitting one shot make a guy the most important guy in a series? Or the “main reason” a team won the series?

Was Steve Kerr more important than Jordan? Was Horry more important than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan?

Nothing against Kyrie, it’s just indisputable that Lebron was the primary reason the Cavs won that title.

Yikes- we're now comparing Kyrie to Steve Kerr? Kerr averaged 6 points a game in his 910 NBA games. The only thing they have in common is that they hit championship winning shots.

Lebron was clearly the #1 on Cleveland, but Kyrie was clearly the #2.

"Nothing against Kyrie?" You just compared him to Steve Kerr. We know that you don't like Kyrie, but come on man!

I compared them in the sense that a series-clinching shot doesn’t make the shot-maker the primary reason his team won.

Kyrie was the second best player. There’s no shame in that, but the gap between he and Lebron is a significant one.


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Re: People need to cool the Kyrie hype
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 08:39:17 AM »

Offline Redz

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I don't post a lot or I would load the picture of the series winning shot in game 7 of the finals by
KYRIE!

Does hitting one shot make a guy the most important guy in a series? Or the “main reason” a team won the series?

Was Steve Kerr more important than Jordan? Was Horry more important than Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan?

Nothing against Kyrie, it’s just indisputable that Lebron was the primary reason the Cavs won that title.

Yikes- we're now comparing Kyrie to Steve Kerr? Kerr averaged 6 points a game in his 910 NBA games. The only thing they have in common is that they hit championship winning shots.

Lebron was clearly the #1 on Cleveland, but Kyrie was clearly the #2.

"Nothing against Kyrie?" You just compared him to Steve Kerr. We know that you don't like Kyrie, but come on man!

I compared them in the sense that a series-clinching shot doesn’t make the shot-maker the primary reason his team won.

Kyrie was the second best player. There’s no shame in that, but the gap between he and Lebron is a significant one.

Kyrie's shot was clutch.  No doubt.  But the thing I remember about that game was guys on both sides choking repeatedly shown the stretch.  Kyrie's filed goal was the only one in the several minutes of the game.  It was almost like it was the law of odds that one bucket would go in. 

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