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Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« on: November 10, 2017, 12:42:29 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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My list

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Rozier
Morris
Baynes
Semi
Theis

Yours?

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 12:56:34 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Smart

Has been great on defense.  Has made huge plays.  Been great passing, working well with everyone from Theis with the alley oops to running some plays while Kyrie is more off ball.  He has been good on the boards.  He has been making an impact with his post game (I have been joking he will soon be Adrian Dantely). 

Still very underrated on defense most of all.



Brown/Tatum

At the moment they are so neck and neck, but soon Tatum could jump above everyone here.  Brown has been up and down shooting, but has rebounded and defended and shot the 3 well. 

Jayson has been solid all along for the most part and he looks like he can start really scoring the ball when he starts getting it more, and getting comfortable shooting it more.

At the same time, Jaylen can really jump up a level if he starts finishing at the rim more consistently and figuring out a few things on offense. 

Even as a big Smart guy, I think clearly either one of these guys and probably both will be better soon, even though Smart has looked good.  Not an insult to him.  I'm sure a lot of others would already think so but again I think Smart's defense keeps him up there for me at the top.




Baynes

I was high on him and he has delivered.




Morris

Has had some down moments a bit but also looked really good at others.  I like his ability to make something happen off the dribble a bit, which this team needs without Hayward.


Rozier

Working well and settling into a role as basically a backup SG.



Theis

Very solid back up big man.

Semi

Impressive start.  Great defense and potential for a nice offensive player too.

Larkin

Yabu

Nader


Nader is the only one I haven't anything of.  Yabu is not ready but he physically is very interesting.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 03:50:49 PM by Snakehead »
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Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 12:57:45 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Right now? You're sleeping on Morris, who is probably the fourth best and most consistent player right now behind the Big 3. That's mostly just due to him being a solid vet, too.
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Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 12:58:50 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Not going by potential talent but by the contributions they are giving to the team this year

Brown
Tatum
Smart
Baynes
Morris
Rozier
Theis
Ojeleye
Larkin
Nader
Yabusele

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 01:10:03 PM »

Offline Green-18

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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time.  Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch?  This means there's no guarantee  of a competent coach and/or system.  Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.

1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system.  His durability up until this season has also been impressive. 

2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot.  Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.

3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter.  He would be an asset on any team in the league.  I also believe that his effort is contagious.

4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system.  Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team.  Durability would also be a concern.  As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team. 

5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins.  Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored.  The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.

6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.

7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game.  Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper.  He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.

8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us.  Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 01:30:16 PM »

Online wdleehi

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Smart
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Semi
Larkin
Nader
Bird
Yabo

Knicks: Irving, Drummond, Marcus Morris, S. Muhammad, C. Lee, Sullinger, Hield, M. Chriss , V. Carter, T. Zeller, N. Cole, T. Prince, Livio Jean-Charles, Tyler Ulis, N. Collison

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 01:40:09 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time.  Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch?  This means there's no guarantee  of a competent coach and/or system.  Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.

1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system.  His durability up until this season has also been impressive. 

2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot.  Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.

3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter.  He would be an asset on any team in the league.  I also believe that his effort is contagious.

4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system.  Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team.  Durability would also be a concern.  As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team. 

5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins.  Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored.  The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.

6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.

7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game.  Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper.  He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.

8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us.  Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.

Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row

Cant say the same without Tatum

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 01:52:58 PM »

Offline Green-18

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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time.  Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch?  This means there's no guarantee  of a competent coach and/or system.  Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.

1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system.  His durability up until this season has also been impressive. 

2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot.  Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.

3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter.  He would be an asset on any team in the league.  I also believe that his effort is contagious.

4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system.  Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team.  Durability would also be a concern.  As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team. 

5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins.  Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored.  The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.

6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.

7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game.  Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper.  He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.

8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us.  Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.

Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row

Cant say the same without Tatum

I clarified my criteria before ranking the players.  I said Brown and Tatum were 1 and 2 within the context of our team.  However I ranked these players under the assumption that we were starting from scratch for one season only.  The rankings are more fun when we remove the Celtics from the equation.  I'm not sure Tatum could be plugged into any system and thrive instantly.  Durability is also a concern for a 19 year old. 

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 02:04:36 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I'll bite, but I'm gonna do it in tiers.

Tier 1: Al, Kyrie, Hayward
A winning team's philosophy can be built around these guys.

Tier 2: Brown, Tatum
These guys are in a tier by themselves because of their ability to do more things than anyone else on the court. They can defend. They can pass. They can shoot. They can score. On top of all of that, they play with a swagger that helps our team win games. That being said, they are still learning how to leverage all of their skills to help their team win games.

Tier 3: Smart, Baynes, Rozier
These guys are still important to winning basketball, but have serious flaws. Each of these guys swing entire basketball games because of their impact. Smart continues to struggle on offense, but makes winning basketball plays on the court. Baynes protects the rim and sets great picks, but is a bit foul-prone and an inconsistent threat on offense. Rozier shows flashes of being able to move up to the next tier, but continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the court.

Tier 4: Morris, Theis, Ojeyle, Larkin
These guys are quintessential role players that don't swing basketball games like Tier 3 guys, but still play good basketball. They can play with the starters at a high level and in spurts as the fulcrum of the team, but they don't normally change the dynamic of the game that much. I like Morris, Larkin, and Theis a lot. Ojeyle has the potential to ascend to Tier 3 eventually due to his lock-down defense, energy, and 3 point shooting.

Tier 5: Everyone else
Yabusele has Tier 2 potential, but right now he is like a bad Tier 3. He changes the dynamic of the game, for better or worse, when he is in there. He's not reliable at all. Nader has Tier 4 potential and I think that's why CBS likes him. He wants a wing that can give him minutes without being a risky play. I actually think Jabari Bird has Tier 3 potential, and it seems like CBS wants to bring him into that role.

That's how I see this team.

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 02:08:07 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time.  Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch?  This means there's no guarantee  of a competent coach and/or system.  Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.

1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system.  His durability up until this season has also been impressive. 

2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot.  Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.

3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter.  He would be an asset on any team in the league.  I also believe that his effort is contagious.

4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system.  Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team.  Durability would also be a concern.  As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team. 

5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins.  Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored.  The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.

6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.

7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game.  Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper.  He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.

8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us.  Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.

Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row

Cant say the same without Tatum

I clarified my criteria before ranking the players.  I said Brown and Tatum were 1 and 2 within the context of our team.  However I ranked these players under the assumption that we were starting from scratch for one season only.  The rankings are more fun when we remove the Celtics from the equation.  I'm not sure Tatum could be plugged into any system and thrive instantly.  Durability is also a concern for a 19 year old.

He was plugged into the Pistons lineuo the past 2 seasons and they went nowhere.  Not saying its all on him but he does not move the needle

In 2 years Tatum could something special. He is already special. Right now he is better than alot of 25 year olds

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2017, 03:09:58 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Morris
Baynes
Rozier
Theis
Semi
Larkin
Nader
Bird
Yabo

I think Bird will pass Nader before all is said and done.

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 03:30:42 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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I'll bite, but I'm gonna do it in tiers.

Tier 1: Al, Kyrie, Hayward
A winning team's philosophy can be built around these guys.

Tier 2: Brown, Tatum
These guys are in a tier by themselves because of their ability to do more things than anyone else on the court. They can defend. They can pass. They can shoot. They can score. On top of all of that, they play with a swagger that helps our team win games. That being said, they are still learning how to leverage all of their skills to help their team win games.

Tier 3: Smart, Baynes, Rozier
These guys are still important to winning basketball, but have serious flaws. Each of these guys swing entire basketball games because of their impact. Smart continues to struggle on offense, but makes winning basketball plays on the court. Baynes protects the rim and sets great picks, but is a bit foul-prone and an inconsistent threat on offense. Rozier shows flashes of being able to move up to the next tier, but continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the court.

Tier 4: Morris, Theis, Ojeyle, Larkin
These guys are quintessential role players that don't swing basketball games like Tier 3 guys, but still play good basketball. They can play with the starters at a high level and in spurts as the fulcrum of the team, but they don't normally change the dynamic of the game that much. I like Morris, Larkin, and Theis a lot. Ojeyle has the potential to ascend to Tier 3 eventually due to his lock-down defense, energy, and 3 point shooting.

Tier 5: Everyone else
Yabusele has Tier 2 potential, but right now he is like a bad Tier 3. He changes the dynamic of the game, for better or worse, when he is in there. He's not reliable at all. Nader has Tier 4 potential and I think that's why CBS likes him. He wants a wing that can give him minutes without being a risky play. I actually think Jabari Bird has Tier 3 potential, and it seems like CBS wants to bring him into that role.

That's how I see this team.

Agreed, except I’d swap Morris and Rozier so Morris is in Tier 3, and drop Larkin from Tier 4 to Everyone Else.
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Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 03:35:07 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I'll bite, but I'm gonna do it in tiers.

Tier 1: Al, Kyrie, Hayward
A winning team's philosophy can be built around these guys.

Tier 2: Brown, Tatum
These guys are in a tier by themselves because of their ability to do more things than anyone else on the court. They can defend. They can pass. They can shoot. They can score. On top of all of that, they play with a swagger that helps our team win games. That being said, they are still learning how to leverage all of their skills to help their team win games.

Tier 3: Smart, Baynes, Rozier
These guys are still important to winning basketball, but have serious flaws. Each of these guys swing entire basketball games because of their impact. Smart continues to struggle on offense, but makes winning basketball plays on the court. Baynes protects the rim and sets great picks, but is a bit foul-prone and an inconsistent threat on offense. Rozier shows flashes of being able to move up to the next tier, but continues to be inconsistent on both ends of the court.

Tier 4: Morris, Theis, Ojeyle, Larkin
These guys are quintessential role players that don't swing basketball games like Tier 3 guys, but still play good basketball. They can play with the starters at a high level and in spurts as the fulcrum of the team, but they don't normally change the dynamic of the game that much. I like Morris, Larkin, and Theis a lot. Ojeyle has the potential to ascend to Tier 3 eventually due to his lock-down defense, energy, and 3 point shooting.

Tier 5: Everyone else
Yabusele has Tier 2 potential, but right now he is like a bad Tier 3. He changes the dynamic of the game, for better or worse, when he is in there. He's not reliable at all. Nader has Tier 4 potential and I think that's why CBS likes him. He wants a wing that can give him minutes without being a risky play. I actually think Jabari Bird has Tier 3 potential, and it seems like CBS wants to bring him into that role.

That's how I see this team.

Agreed, except Id swap Morris and Rozier so Morris is in Tier 3, and drop Larkin from Tier 4 to Everyone Else.

Interesting. I've seen Rozier swing too many games in last year's playoffs and the beginning of this season to have him in tier 4. You can tell CBS likes him a lot too.

I can see the argument of moving Morris up. I guess he did swing the game for us the other day with his play. Do you think we'll get that going forward?

It seems like CBS has Larkin in the tier 4. He likes him to give them some minutes as a rotation guy, and he likes playing Larkin with Irving for whatever reason. I get having him lower though.


Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2017, 03:44:50 PM »

Offline Green-18

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My rankings are strictly based upon this moment in time.  Who would I choose to help me win games if I was starting from scratch?  This means there's no guarantee  of a competent coach and/or system.  Brown and Tatum are potentially 1 and 2 within the context of our team.

1. Marcus Morris - Proven veteran who can be plugged in to almost any system.  His durability up until this season has also been impressive. 

2. Jaylen Brown - I almost went with Marcus but Jaylen has elevated his game enough to win this spot.  Jaylen's defense and transition ability make him extremely valuable to any team.

3. Marcus Smart - We all know what Marcus brings especially in the 4th quarter.  He would be an asset on any team in the league.  I also believe that his effort is contagious.

4. Jayson Tatum - People will feel that I ranked him low but I think we need to credit a lot of Tatum's success to our team and system.  Tatum is a potential Superstar but it would be tough for him to contribute in the same way on a mediocre team.  Durability would also be a concern.  As I mentioned before Tatum is 1st or 2nd within the context of our team. 

5. Terry Rozier - This is where the drop-off begins.  Terry shows flashes on offense but his lack of consistency can't be ignored.  The good news is that he plays with effort every night and is an elite rebounder at the PG spot.

6. Aron Baynes - Baynes is such an awesome fit with our team but his impact would be minimized without the right system.

7. Daniel Theis - Theis knows how to play the game.  Solid as a roll man and has decent jumper.  He has also shown excellent timing as a shot blocker.

8. Semi Ojeleye - Solid 3 and D player for us.  Not sure how he would fare on other teams as a rookie.

Tatum is too low. Without Morris the team has won 7-8 in a row

Cant say the same without Tatum

I clarified my criteria before ranking the players.  I said Brown and Tatum were 1 and 2 within the context of our team.  However I ranked these players under the assumption that we were starting from scratch for one season only.  The rankings are more fun when we remove the Celtics from the equation.  I'm not sure Tatum could be plugged into any system and thrive instantly.  Durability is also a concern for a 19 year old.

He was plugged into the Pistons lineuo the past 2 seasons and they went nowhere.  Not saying its all on him but he does not move the needle

In 2 years Tatum could something special. He is already special. Right now he is better than alot of 25 year olds

I mentioned that Tatum has superstar potential but my criteria was 100% based upon this season.  The fact of the matter is only KI, GH, and Horford would move the needle THIS season on a new team.  I don't think a rookie Tatum moves the needle with the exact same grouping Detroit had last season.  Tatum has some very polished NBA skills but Stevens is also putting him in the ideal position to succeed.

I think some people are undervaluing the versatility of Marcus Morris.  I'm not the biggest advanced analytics guy but he has ranked 15th and 9th in win shares among PF's the past two seasons.  His length, athleticism, and well rounded offensive game allows him to play both the 3 and 4 without being a liability on either end of the court.  He was also the starter for a 44 win Pistons team two season ago.  The Pistons definitely regressed last season but Stan Van Gundy would be the first to tell you that Morris was his most reliable player.  Reggie Jackson missed 30 games last season and the Pistons had one of the worst PG situations in basketball.

The reason I ranked Morris #1 is because I believe he could be a positive contributor in a 30+ MPG role regardless of the team he played for.  He could get traded tomorrow and instantly slide in with a new team.  Let's not discount his performances in the first 3 games with our group.  Morris doesn't have any further upside but he's a reliable pro.

Re: Rank the players on Celtics team (minus AL, Kyrie, GH)
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2017, 03:58:30 PM »

Offline Androslav

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I went with the "If I had to win an elimination/close out playoff game" criteria. Since those mean the most. Naturally that could occure at least 5 or 6 months from now, so I tried to include in the players individual developement and players ability to mesh in/provide what is needed.

1. Morris
2. Smart
3. Brown
4. Tatum
5. Rozier
6. Baynes
7. Semi
8. Theis

I can't see anyone else in the playoff rotation.
11 is deep enough.
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