Monroe will soon be bought out?

[Jvalin]

Meh. Good player, bad fit. Whatever CBS thinks, I'm on board with it.

[Moranis]

Danny is not going to waste that last roster spot on Monroe. He will wait for someone good to surprisingly be bought out then dangle the dpe on them

Can you give some examples of players you think will be available and superior to Monroe? Should be a really long list so I'll give you some time.

Not directly superior, but filling an 8,4 mil slot with any player just to be ready for a potential AD trade (or other, you never know, see Kyrie) if they self-combust would be a superior use of the DPE in my book.

Boston still has the DPE and 8.4 million if it signs Monroe to a minimum contract though.  Boston then just has to waive someone like Nader to make the roster spot.  That seems like a much preferred option then hoping someone better comes along.

[D Dub]

I don't get what is not to like about Greg Monroe.  He has been a remarkably consistent and durable player for 8 seasons and is only 27 years old.  With his current contract, there is no way we can get him without him being bought out but if he is, I can't think of anything much better we are going to get for Hayward's DPE.

Others say he won't want to come here or whatever but there is a good chance he would start.  He would definitely have the chance at consistent minutes.  I think a big rotation of Horford, Morris, Monroe, Baynes, with the first 3 getting most of the minutes, is pretty solid.  Yes, he will get fewer shots and need to focus more on defense and rebounding but he may get a chance to play in the finals.  Not too many teams can offer that.

Compare stats for Monroe to Al Horford through 8 seasons, pretty similar.  Now I get it that Horford has developed a 3-pt shot that Monroe does not have but Horford didn't have one either at that point in his career.  I think Monroe can be a very useful big even without a 3-pt shot.  I hope we get him.

The red flag I see with him is defensively. 

He just doesn’t have the lateral foot speed to guard anyone other than a true center.  With so many teams deploying stretch fours, I think he’d become the weak link in our defense as we’d only be one switch away from a mismatch anytime he’s on the floor.   And even the true dominant bigs, like Porzingis and Embiid, are too quick and skilled from the perimeter for him to guard. 

And to that, the fact that he can’t shoot the three, and you are talking about a guy who is a liability on both ends of the floor.  Skilled, yes, but if you are already committed to sub-par shooters like Smart and Brown, there is no way you can add another non-shooter to the mix and expect Kyrie to still find open lanes to drive the ball. 

Remember it took Al Horford nearly five years of targeted work to become a three point threat.  We can’t expect Monroe (or Okafor for that matter) to add that to their game in one offseason.  At this point, Baynes and Theis both are better fits for this team.   

[chilidawg]

Seems like the question should be is he an upgrade over Baynes, because Baynes has most of the same limitations.  At very least he'd be solid injury depth, and he's a better low post scorer and passer than Baynes.

[Vermont Green]

At this point, Baynes and Theis both are better fits for this team.

I don't understand this take.  Baynes and Theis are much less talented players than Monroe.  Baynes is a true banger and offers an ingredient that is useful and that Monroe cannot provide but if we add Monroe, then we can still have Baynes around to bang for say 16 min and 4 fouls per game.  Monroe has demonstrated that he doesn't mind playing with the second unit where his lack of defense is not as big an issue and his skills (scoring/passing) can be featured more.  Baynes and Theis are not going to be featured for anything.

I don't see Monroe transcending the team or anything like that but if he becomes available, I see him as a valuable add to the big rotation mix.

[RockinRyA]

At this point, Baynes and Theis both are better fits for this team.

I don't understand this take.  Baynes and Theis are much less talented players than Monroe.  Baynes is a true banger and offers an ingredient that is useful and that Monroe cannot provide but if we add Monroe, then we can still have Baynes around to bang for say 16 min and 4 fouls per game.  Monroe has demonstrated that he doesn't mind playing with the second unit where his lack of defense is not as big an issue and his skills (scoring/passing) can be featured more.  Baynes and Theis are not going to be featured for anything.

I don't see Monroe transcending the team or anything like that but if he becomes available, I see him as a valuable add to the big rotation mix.

More talent =/= better fit.

[greece66]

Monroe is a good player.

In a perfect world, I'd like a 2 or a 3 for us now, but Monroe might well be the best player available now on the market. I won't complain if we get him.

[saltlover]

At this point, Baynes and Theis both are better fits for this team.

I don't understand this take.  Baynes and Theis are much less talented players than Monroe.  Baynes is a true banger and offers an ingredient that is useful and that Monroe cannot provide but if we add Monroe, then we can still have Baynes around to bang for say 16 min and 4 fouls per game.  Monroe has demonstrated that he doesn't mind playing with the second unit where his lack of defense is not as big an issue and his skills (scoring/passing) can be featured more.  Baynes and Theis are not going to be featured for anything.

I don't see Monroe transcending the team or anything like that but if he becomes available, I see him as a valuable add to the big rotation mix.

More talent =/= better fit.

 A better fit than who tho?  He’s a better fit than Okafor, in that they have similar styles but Monroe actually knows what to do in an NBA game.  Our position with the least depth is PF/C, so that’s probably what we should be looking at for any player acquired.  The pickings are slim.  It’s November — people say “wait for buyout season” as if all these amazing players are going to line up to come to Boston.  As we’ve seen in past years, the players aren’t amazing, and they don’t line up to be a Celtic.  If Monroe is released in the next few weeks, the Celtics absolutely should make him the top priority with the DPE.  The odds of a better player or even a better fit coming along are pretty low.  Stevens is very good at putting players in situations/lineups that maximize their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses, and I have no concern that he’d figure out how to do that with a talented player like Monroe.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is from IndeedProceed.

Before everyone calls this a definitive 'win' for Milwaukee, some numbers:

Greg Monroe was 2nd on the team in SIMPLE Rating, 2nd on the team in ESPN's RPM, 2nd on the team in defensive rating last year, and 2nd on the team in WS/48 (assuming you don't count Spencer Hawes's 171 total minutes).

Greg Monroe has been the Buck's 2nd best player for the last 3 years. He's done that in spite of Jason Kidd blaming him for every little thing that goes wrong, and yanking him in and out of the lineup seemingly at random.

Don't be surprised if A) This is a lateral year for the Bucks in terms of wins B) They suddenly get terrible defensively because Greg Monroe was also their best defensive big man last year.
I probably still do the trade if I'm Milwaukee because Monroe is in the last year of his contract and won't be back after how he's been treated if money isn't a motivating factor, but treating him as just a dollar sign placeholder in terms of what's being taken away vs whats being added is wrong, demonstrably.

I thought myself that he was a bad defender, but IP's argument here makes the case for me. If he gets bought out, I won't mind having him on our team.

[JBcat]

We are slowly acquiring ex Pistons big men. Baynes, Morris, maybe Monroe next. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

As far as I can see, CBS wants his bigs to be able to do these things: 1) Mobility to defend the perimeter 2) Passing 3) Pick-game 4) Shooting Outside 5) Toughness to defend the paint 6) Rebounding 7) Post-up scoring.

That's also in the order it seems like CBS prioritizes it.

From how I see it, most of the things Monroe does well are the things CBS values the least in a big. However, there is one skill that is legit: passing.

Monroe legitimately has some of the best passing instincts in the NBA for a big man. The stats do not back this up because he has played for the Pistons, next to Drummond, which closed down offensive passing lanes. For the Bucks, he was assigned to the bench, to play with bench players in an ISO-heavy offense that lacks movement.

Monroe's passing ability is similar to Horford's, but the problem is that, because Monroe can't shoot, bigs can ice ball-handlers on the pick and roll with no fear that Monroe will pop for a 17 footer, or for a 3. This would also close down driving lanes for Kyrie, Smart, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum.

What I do like is that he would fit into our culture of moving the ball and making the right passes. It also wouldn't be too hard to get him touches on the block, because we are doing those actions more this year in our offense.

Monroe's rebounding solves a problem we really don't have anymore. He has always had a bad habit of peeling off the ball-handler driving into the lane too soon so that he can try to get a rebound. He is also late on rotations. These things give him good rebounding numbers, but below average defensive field goal percentage at the rim (above 52%).

His poor foot speed and lack of effort also puts him in the 24% of all big men in defending the pick-and-roll. For reference, last year, Al and Baynes were above 50% and Kelly and Amir above 78%.

Considering that we have Baynes, who can protect the rim, set picks, pass (a little), and stretch the floor out to 18 feet (corner 3s are coming soon!), Theis who can defend the perimeter and paint, set picks, pass, and stretch the floor out to the 3 point line, and Morris, who can can defend the perimeter, set picks, pass, and stretch the floor out to the 3 point line, I don't see Monroe as a necessary cog or a cog that fits our system.

With how we are rebounding, even Tatum and Brown fit at the 4 next to one of those bigs better than Monroe would.

Even if there was an injury, because this is largely a developmental season, I would love to run with Yabusele and Smart out on the court at the same time. Yabusele would do some of the offensive stuff that you look for, and Smart would yell at Yabusele until he started figuring out rotations. Our defense would be awful for a while, but Yabadabadoo would be just as good if not better than Monroe at defending the pick-and-rolls.

[Moranis]

As far as I can see, CBS wants his bigs to be able to do these things: 1) Mobility to defend the perimeter 2) Passing 3) Pick-game 4) Shooting Outside 5) Toughness to defend the paint 6) Rebounding 7) Post-up scoring.

That's also in the order it seems like CBS prioritizes it.

From how I see it, most of the things Monroe does well are the things CBS values the least in a big. However, there is one skill that is legit: passing.

Monroe legitimately has some of the best passing instincts in the NBA for a big man. The stats do not back this up because he has played for the Pistons, next to Drummond, which closed down offensive passing lanes. For the Bucks, he was assigned to the bench, to play with bench players in an ISO-heavy offense that lacks movement.

Monroe's passing ability is similar to Horford's, but the problem is that, because Monroe can't shoot, bigs can ice ball-handlers on the pick and roll with no fear that Monroe will pop for a 17 footer, or for a 3. This would also close down driving lanes for Kyrie, Smart, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum.

What I do like is that he would fit into our culture of moving the ball and making the right passes. It also wouldn't be too hard to get him touches on the block, because we are doing those actions more this year in our offense.

Monroe's rebounding solves a problem we really don't have anymore. He has always had a bad habit of peeling off the ball-handler driving into the lane too soon so that he can try to get a rebound. He is also late on rotations. These things give him good rebounding numbers, but below average defensive field goal percentage at the rim (above 52%).

His poor foot speed and lack of effort also puts him in the 24% of all big men in defending the pick-and-roll. For reference, last year, Al and Baynes were above 50% and Kelly and Amir above 78%.

Considering that we have Baynes, who can protect the rim, set picks, pass (a little), and stretch the floor out to 18 feet (corner 3s are coming soon!), Theis who can defend the perimeter and paint, set picks, pass, and stretch the floor out to the 3 point line, and Morris, who can can defend the perimeter, set picks, pass, and stretch the floor out to the 3 point line, I don't see Monroe as a necessary cog or a cog that fits our system.

With how we are rebounding, even Tatum and Brown fit at the 4 next to one of those bigs better than Monroe would.

Even if there was an injury, because this is largely a developmental season, I would love to run with Yabusele and Smart out on the court at the same time. Yabusele would do some of the offensive stuff that you look for, and Smart would yell at Yabusele until he started figuring out rotations. Our defense would be awful for a while, but Yabadabadoo is not that much of a step down from Monroe on defense. He'd get a lot of fouls, but he'd also be a better perimeter defender with his foot speed.

So far this year Monroe is shooting 66.7% from 10-16 feet.  Small sample size, but last year he shot 47.5% from that range and the year before that 42.9%.  All three are well above the league average from 10-16 feet.  From 16' to 3 pointers, he shot 43.8% last year and 39.3% the year before.  He barely shoots 3 pointers and never hits them, but he is actually a pretty good deep 2 ball shooter. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

As far as I can see, CBS wants his bigs to be able to do these things: 1) Mobility to defend the perimeter 2) Passing 3) Pick-game 4) Shooting Outside 5) Toughness to defend the paint 6) Rebounding 7) Post-up scoring.

That's also in the order it seems like CBS prioritizes it.

From how I see it, most of the things Monroe does well are the things CBS values the least in a big. However, there is one skill that is legit: passing.

Monroe legitimately has some of the best passing instincts in the NBA for a big man. The stats do not back this up because he has played for the Pistons, next to Drummond, which closed down offensive passing lanes. For the Bucks, he was assigned to the bench, to play with bench players in an ISO-heavy offense that lacks movement.

Monroe's passing ability is similar to Horford's, but the problem is that, because Monroe can't shoot, bigs can ice ball-handlers on the pick and roll with no fear that Monroe will pop for a 17 footer, or for a 3. This would also close down driving lanes for Kyrie, Smart, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum.

What I do like is that he would fit into our culture of moving the ball and making the right passes. It also wouldn't be too hard to get him touches on the block, because we are doing those actions more this year in our offense.

Monroe's rebounding solves a problem we really don't have anymore. He has always had a bad habit of peeling off the ball-handler driving into the lane too soon so that he can try to get a rebound. He is also late on rotations. These things give him good rebounding numbers, but below average defensive field goal percentage at the rim (above 52%).

His poor foot speed and lack of effort also puts him in the 24% of all big men in defending the pick-and-roll. For reference, last year, Al and Baynes were above 50% and Kelly and Amir above 78%.

Considering that we have Baynes, who can protect the rim, set picks, pass (a little), and stretch the floor out to 18 feet (corner 3s are coming soon!), Theis who can defend the perimeter and paint, set picks, pass, and stretch the floor out to the 3 point line, and Morris, who can can defend the perimeter, set picks, pass, and stretch the floor out to the 3 point line, I don't see Monroe as a necessary cog or a cog that fits our system.

With how we are rebounding, even Tatum and Brown fit at the 4 next to one of those bigs better than Monroe would.

Even if there was an injury, because this is largely a developmental season, I would love to run with Yabusele and Smart out on the court at the same time. Yabusele would do some of the offensive stuff that you look for, and Smart would yell at Yabusele until he started figuring out rotations. Our defense would be awful for a while, but Yabadabadoo is not that much of a step down from Monroe on defense. He'd get a lot of fouls, but he'd also be a better perimeter defender with his foot speed.

So far this year Monroe is shooting 66.7% from 10-16 feet.  Small sample size, but last year he shot 47.5% from that range and the year before that 42.9%.  All three are well above the league average from 10-16 feet.  From 16' to 3 pointers, he shot 43.8% last year and 39.3% the year before.  He barely shoots 3 pointers and never hits them, but he is actually a pretty good deep 2 ball shooter.

I did not know that. His shooting touch is better than I thought.

However, the rate at which he shoots them is very low. Based on my math, last year, he took 1 shot more than 10 feet from the basket per game.

This means that he made two of those every 5 games. Not bad, but also that's not going to be something that pulls the big defender away from helping on the ball-handler after a pick.

[Vermont Green]

Monroe has now started 3 games with PHX.  Per36 (I know, the beloved stat), he is 20.6 pts/10.3 rebs in two wins (CHI, LAL) and a loss (HOU).  In one game (the second of a back to back) he played only 16 minutes.

That is a pretty nice audition for teams who might be looking at him.  It does not seem like he will be released (why would PHX want to do that?).  Someone will trade for him.

Monroe makes about $17.9M.  The DPE is $8.4  To get within 125%, we would need to include about $6M in salary, right?  I don't see how that happens.

[Fafnir]

(why would PHX want to do that?)

They don't have any intention of signing him and want to save some money (if they're above the salary floor) or doing the player/agent a solid to build goodwill. We will see if he stays there all season, a lot depends on if he wants to go to a playoff team towards that deadline.