Author Topic: Ball arrested in China (UPDATE: Trump to Lavar "should have left them in jail")  (Read 6299 times)

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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2017, 01:51:06 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies

Nothing at all? No fine, no suspension?

Personally Iíd expel him.

I was speaking specifically on jail time - I should have clarified. He should be fined, given a misdemeanor, and perhaps even be required to do community service (depending on the value of the merchandise).

UCLA should do as they feel as these are scholarship athletes who have been given the great privilege of attending their school. If they are expelled, they should accept the consequences as they have shamed the university.

Thatís pretty much where I am.  I donít think a long jail sentence is really just, for these kids or average Chinese citizens. 


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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2017, 01:54:57 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2017, 02:06:23 PM »

Offline matteo

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I hope they are punished but not in China where the penalty for this is way disproportionate to the crime

really?

The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton menís sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the companyís U.S. website.


and in california...

According to statistics from the California Department of Corrections, thousands of individuals are serving life sentences under California's three strikes law for nonviolent third strikesóin fact, 360 individuals in California are serving life sentences for shoplifting small amounts of merchandise. California is one of twenty-six states nationally with a three strikes law, but California's is the harshest in that the third strike need not be a serious or violent felony-any felony, even shoplifting, can be the basis for a life sentence.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html
2 to 3 years in jail for shop lifting is incredibly harsh. That is the point I was making. I think I read somewhere the value stolen woild be a 3 to 10 year sentence under Chinese law. That is just way to harsh.  It doesn't excuse the offense bit of rather see an American level penalty
No sympathy for thieves. None.

Really? You think somebody who shoplifts deserves jail time? Whether it be China or the US, this is not a crime that should be treated very seriously. Armed robbery is one thing, but an 18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses is nothing.

Another member of CB has a quote has his signature by George W Bush (how times have changed where I can speak positively of Bush) where he says often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Humans are not perfect - we all make mistakes and this is incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. As much as I dislike what the Ball family represents, I really hope this falls by the wayside sooner rather than later.

According to reports, they stole from 3 different stores. So it wasn't merely a random crime of opportunity, but instead speaks to the defendants' specific intent. That to me needs to be treated more harshly than the way you downplayed it... "18 year old kid trying to snatch a pair of sunglasses".

How harshly? I mean, these are kids that did something stupid all in the same basic time frame. It's not like they beat somebody with a baseball bat and stole their car.

Maybe I just have a different perspective - I purchase and rent condos in Florida. When I have an eviction, I am out at least two months rent (usually, three) plus the cost of the eviction. My loss on an eviction is in the thousands - it is terrible. And there is no real way to ever collect the money. Think about it, these people essentially 'steal' thousands of dollars from me and absolutely nothing happens to them.

So, no, I don't think anything should happen to LiAngelo and his buddies and I think everybody who is ready to lay the hammer down really needs to take a big chill pill. I didn't know we had so many perfect members of society on CB.

I also have over 100 rental units in MA, (an extremely pro-tenant state) and lose just as much if not more for every eviction.  I have to follow the law, it comes with the territory of owning rental property here so I have no complaints.  I also have some retail stores.  When someone steals from me I feel they should be prosecuted, and I do whatever I can to help the police in their investigation, cause it's "the law"....Maybe I just have a different perspective

It must be really cool being you. I hope I can one day reach the direction of your moral compass.

i doubt you "hope" and I doubt you could

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2017, 02:07:53 PM »

Offline eja117

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I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Again....not a criminologist, but on some level I think a big factor is no real male role models, not enough education, and not enough economic opportunities. Prison done well.....GEDs and work release stuff so people get an education and a skill......I think that stuff makes a huge difference. It's very unfortunate that a lot of people have to go to jail to end up getting this stuff but that's how it is. But again....if a person has been through this twice already.....maybe punishment is all that's left. 

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #124 on: November 12, 2017, 02:22:57 PM »

Offline CelticD

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I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Again....not a criminologist, but on some level I think a big factor is no real male role models, not enough education, and not enough economic opportunities. Prison done well.....GEDs and work release stuff so people get an education and a skill......I think that stuff makes a huge difference. It's very unfortunate that a lot of people have to go to jail to end up getting this stuff but that's how it is. But again....if a person has been through this twice already.....maybe punishment is all that's left.

Since you were talking about lack of male role models I'm assuming you're talking about black people, but lack of economic opportunities is pretty much it in my opinion. When you're unable to accumulate and pass down wealth to your children due to centuries of free labor, economic disenfranchisement is difficult to avoid. High poverty, high crime simple as that.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #125 on: November 12, 2017, 02:34:49 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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As someone pretty familiar with the judicial/criminal procedure...

They should probably be able to plea down to a misdemeanor, pay a fine+fees, and be banned from the country.

Then they should face the UCLA board, which at the very least they should lose any scholarships, with some sort of probation should they ever get in trouble with the law again, immediate expulsion. Kicking them off the team seems logical.

Any incarceratory sentence for a non-violent, dumb criminal act such as this one would seem extreme, especially if they donít have a criminal record.

If they donít want to accept a plea bargain or there is no offer (wanting to make an example out of them), then all bets are off.
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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #126 on: November 12, 2017, 03:11:53 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Since you were talking about lack of male role models I'm assuming you're talking about black people

That's a rather bizarre and dangerous assumption to make.


Also, LiAngelo has a father who is in his life, and it didn't seem to make a difference here.

Introducing race into the subject of teens acting foolishly is hardly logical. Teens of every single race act foolishly. The important thing is that they learn from their mistakes and misdeeds. Holding them accountable for their actions is part of that.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #127 on: November 12, 2017, 03:13:19 PM »

Offline eja117

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I'm not a criminologist by any means but isn't it true that roughly speaking the 3 strikes rules has correlated (correlation.....not necessarily causation) with a huge national decline in crime?

Obviously if somebody keeps doing something they are not supposed to do, then they should be punished more harshly; however, I have a bigger problem with mandatory sentencing - especially for non-violent offenses. Also, these repeat offenders probably have something else going on and I believe the cause should be addressed (rehab) so that the behavior doesn't continue if/when they get released prison.
Again....not a criminologist, but on some level I think a big factor is no real male role models, not enough education, and not enough economic opportunities. Prison done well.....GEDs and work release stuff so people get an education and a skill......I think that stuff makes a huge difference. It's very unfortunate that a lot of people have to go to jail to end up getting this stuff but that's how it is. But again....if a person has been through this twice already.....maybe punishment is all that's left.

Since you were talking about lack of male role models I'm assuming you're talking about black people, but lack of economic opportunities is pretty much it in my opinion. When you're unable to accumulate and pass down wealth to your children due to centuries of free labor, economic disenfranchisement is difficult to avoid. High poverty, high crime simple as that.
I'm certainly not just talking about black people. Single parent household is a huge indicator of likely poverty across races, right? However it is well known the lack of black fathers, as well as the statistical overrepresentation of people of color in the prison system. I don't think this is an easy thing to fix for anyone.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2017, 12:18:39 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I'll say this, though -

I apologize.

I took CelticsElite bait and went somewhere with a Trump conspiracy that I should NOT have done.

It was foolish.

With THAT being said -



I'm thankful that I'm not the ONLY one who is prone to foolishness...............

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21400082/president-donald-trump-asks-chinese-president-xi-jinping-help-ucla-bruins-case

President Donald Trump personally asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to help resolve the case involving three UCLA basketball players, including LiAngelo Ball, who were arrested on shoplifting charges in Hangzhou, The Washington Post reported Monday.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2017, 12:34:26 PM »

Offline CelticD

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I'll say this, though -

I apologize.

I took CelticsElite bait and went somewhere with a Trump conspiracy that I should NOT have done.

It was foolish.

With THAT being said -



I'm thankful that I'm not the ONLY one who is prone to foolishness...............

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21400082/president-donald-trump-asks-chinese-president-xi-jinping-help-ucla-bruins-case

President Donald Trump personally asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to help resolve the case involving three UCLA basketball players, including LiAngelo Ball, who were arrested on shoplifting charges in Hangzhou, The Washington Post reported Monday.

That'd be great. Much respect for him at least bringing it up.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
« Reply #130 on: November 14, 2017, 02:36:35 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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"The three UCLA menís basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement


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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
« Reply #131 on: November 14, 2017, 02:42:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I don't quite understand. It's great that the President helped a bunch of alleged thieves to dodge the local justice system? I hope UCLA doesn't pretend this didn't happen.
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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
« Reply #132 on: November 14, 2017, 02:52:07 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't quite understand. It's great that the President helped a bunch of alleged thieves to dodge the local justice system? I hope UCLA doesn't pretend this didn't happen.

Yeah, I donít want them locked up, but I would like to see some consequences.


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Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
« Reply #133 on: November 14, 2017, 02:52:39 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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"The three UCLA menís basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement

if i have to guess, it's probably we paid the local authorities the value of the items that were "stolen", idk

BUT, these kids are extremely lucky, though I agree that 3+ years for a first offense might be too harsh, and I am worried that these kids will feel entitled. I expect UCLA to punish them somehow though.

Re: LiAngelo Ball arrested in China (update: Trump asks President Xi to help)
« Reply #134 on: November 14, 2017, 03:09:19 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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"The three UCLA menís basketball student-athletes involved in the incident with authorities in Hangzhou, China are on a flight back home to Los Angeles, and the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the Chinese authorities," Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said in a statement

if i have to guess, it's probably we paid the local authorities the value of the items that were "stolen", idk

BUT, these kids are extremely lucky, though I agree that 3+ years for a first offense might be too harsh, and I am worried that these kids will feel entitled. I expect UCLA to punish them somehow though.
Will you be surprised to know that shoplifting more than $100 carries up to 2.5 yrs in jail + $1,000 fine in MA -- regardless of whether it's a first offense? And that's provided you don't get charged with larceny, which  carries up to 5 years in jail.

Also, if the value of stolen goods is north of $250, you may be charged with a felony.
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