Woj + Lowe: Bledsoe to Bucks

[Moranis]

Milwaukee will be our major competition in the east for a long time. I知 worried about them more than Philly.

I still think Philly poses more of a long term threat because they have a lot more potential top end talent.  I mean Milwaukee is pretty much Giannis and maybe Parker (if he ever stays healthy) as every year all star level players (or better in the case of Giannis).  Philly has Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, and maybe even Saric with that sort of potential as well a lot of solid depth.

Philly will not be able to keep those 4 and fill out their team. Especially with Covington getting big money. Saric will be the odd man out.

Saric had a nice game but it is a bit ludicrous that some people are acting like he is a future star cause he put up some points on Philly when they were tanking hard last year. Even the Philly fans acknowledge he is a role player. He shot 41% from the field last year and is down to 38% this year. He is averaging 10 and 5 with as many turnovers as assists. By comparison when KO was 23 he was averaging 10 and 4 on 45% shooting. When Mirotic came over at 24 he averaged 10 and 5 on 40% shooting also.

When people start talking about Saric as some big star I really don't understand if they just saw a few garbage time games last year or think he is like 3-4 years younger than he is.... it really is confusing. Meanwhile a player like Middletown averaging 19, 6 and 5 on 42% shooting with better defense is a nobody...

I didn't mention Middleton because he isn't mich different than Covington (different skill set but similar level of player).  Bledsoe is a solid player but I don't expect him to be there long term nor him to be the level of player he is now in 2 or 3 years when this sort of debate matters.

Saric is 23 but is just in his 2nd year.  He has upped his 3 point shooting to 41% and his per 36 numbers are fairly solid for a 2nd year player.  Philly just plays a lot of players so minutes and stats are stunted a great deal.  Brogdon is a more equivalent level player but he is even older than Saric is. Maker is a defensive specialist. Parker is always hurt.

I'd take Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz over Giannis every single day of the week even though Giannis is trending like the best player on either team.

[celticsclay]

Milwaukee will be our major competition in the east for a long time. I知 worried about them more than Philly.

I still think Philly poses more of a long term threat because they have a lot more potential top end talent.  I mean Milwaukee is pretty much Giannis and maybe Parker (if he ever stays healthy) as every year all star level players (or better in the case of Giannis).  Philly has Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, and maybe even Saric with that sort of potential as well a lot of solid depth.

Philly will not be able to keep those 4 and fill out their team. Especially with Covington getting big money. Saric will be the odd man out.

Saric had a nice game but it is a bit ludicrous that some people are acting like he is a future star cause he put up some points on Philly when they were tanking hard last year. Even the Philly fans acknowledge he is a role player. He shot 41% from the field last year and is down to 38% this year. He is averaging 10 and 5 with as many turnovers as assists. By comparison when KO was 23 he was averaging 10 and 4 on 45% shooting. When Mirotic came over at 24 he averaged 10 and 5 on 40% shooting also.

When people start talking about Saric as some big star I really don't understand if they just saw a few garbage time games last year or think he is like 3-4 years younger than he is.... it really is confusing. Meanwhile a player like Middletown averaging 19, 6 and 5 on 42% shooting with better defense is a nobody...

I didn't mention Middleton because he isn't mich different than Covington (different skill set but similar level of player).  Bledsoe is a solid player but I don't expect him to be there long term nor him to be the level of player he is now in 2 or 3 years when this sort of debate matters.

Saric is 23 but is just in his 2nd year.  He has upped his 3 point shooting to 41% and his per 36 numbers are fairly solid for a 2nd year player.  Philly just plays a lot of players so minutes and stats are stunted a great deal.  Brogdon is a more equivalent level player but he is even older than Saric is. Maker is a defensive specialist. Parker is always hurt.

I'd take Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz over Giannis every single day of the week even though Giannis is trending like the best player on either team.

You would take fultz over Giannis? That doesn't really make any sense. Giannis is probably the front runner for MVP right now. He is considered the most valuable asset in the league by many given his age and production. The bucks would probably not trade Gianni's for fultz and Covington and saric. combined. Very interesting take

Edit if you are saying those three combined that makes sense but we can just disagree on ignoring all the other good players the bucks have. If you are talking that you prefer fultz over giannis 1 to 1 though, enjoy that Island.

[Moranis]

Milwaukee will be our major competition in the east for a long time. I知 worried about them more than Philly.

I still think Philly poses more of a long term threat because they have a lot more potential top end talent.  I mean Milwaukee is pretty much Giannis and maybe Parker (if he ever stays healthy) as every year all star level players (or better in the case of Giannis).  Philly has Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, and maybe even Saric with that sort of potential as well a lot of solid depth.

Philly will not be able to keep those 4 and fill out their team. Especially with Covington getting big money. Saric will be the odd man out.

Saric had a nice game but it is a bit ludicrous that some people are acting like he is a future star cause he put up some points on Philly when they were tanking hard last year. Even the Philly fans acknowledge he is a role player. He shot 41% from the field last year and is down to 38% this year. He is averaging 10 and 5 with as many turnovers as assists. By comparison when KO was 23 he was averaging 10 and 4 on 45% shooting. When Mirotic came over at 24 he averaged 10 and 5 on 40% shooting also.

When people start talking about Saric as some big star I really don't understand if they just saw a few garbage time games last year or think he is like 3-4 years younger than he is.... it really is confusing. Meanwhile a player like Middletown averaging 19, 6 and 5 on 42% shooting with better defense is a nobody...

I didn't mention Middleton because he isn't mich different than Covington (different skill set but similar level of player).  Bledsoe is a solid player but I don't expect him to be there long term nor him to be the level of player he is now in 2 or 3 years when this sort of debate matters.

Saric is 23 but is just in his 2nd year.  He has upped his 3 point shooting to 41% and his per 36 numbers are fairly solid for a 2nd year player.  Philly just plays a lot of players so minutes and stats are stunted a great deal.  Brogdon is a more equivalent level player but he is even older than Saric is. Maker is a defensive specialist. Parker is always hurt.

I'd take Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz over Giannis every single day of the week even though Giannis is trending like the best player on either team.

You would take fultz over Giannis? That doesn't really make any sense. Giannis is probably the front runner for MVP right now. He is considered the most valuable asset in the league by many given his age and production. The bucks would probably not trade Gianni's for fultz and Covington and saric. combined. Very interesting take

You misread what I said.  I probably could have put it clearer, but when I say Giannis is trending like the best player on either team, it should be pretty obvious what I was intending to say i.e. that the 3 players from Philly are better than Giannis alone and those are the only 4 players that really have HOF level talent (not saying they will all be HOFers, just they have that talent).

[celticsclay]

Milwaukee will be our major competition in the east for a long time. I知 worried about them more than Philly.

I still think Philly poses more of a long term threat because they have a lot more potential top end talent.  I mean Milwaukee is pretty much Giannis and maybe Parker (if he ever stays healthy) as every year all star level players (or better in the case of Giannis).  Philly has Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, and maybe even Saric with that sort of potential as well a lot of solid depth.

Philly will not be able to keep those 4 and fill out their team. Especially with Covington getting big money. Saric will be the odd man out.

Saric had a nice game but it is a bit ludicrous that some people are acting like he is a future star cause he put up some points on Philly when they were tanking hard last year. Even the Philly fans acknowledge he is a role player. He shot 41% from the field last year and is down to 38% this year. He is averaging 10 and 5 with as many turnovers as assists. By comparison when KO was 23 he was averaging 10 and 4 on 45% shooting. When Mirotic came over at 24 he averaged 10 and 5 on 40% shooting also.

When people start talking about Saric as some big star I really don't understand if they just saw a few garbage time games last year or think he is like 3-4 years younger than he is.... it really is confusing. Meanwhile a player like Middletown averaging 19, 6 and 5 on 42% shooting with better defense is a nobody...

I didn't mention Middleton because he isn't mich different than Covington (different skill set but similar level of player).  Bledsoe is a solid player but I don't expect him to be there long term nor him to be the level of player he is now in 2 or 3 years when this sort of debate matters.

Saric is 23 but is just in his 2nd year.  He has upped his 3 point shooting to 41% and his per 36 numbers are fairly solid for a 2nd year player.  Philly just plays a lot of players so minutes and stats are stunted a great deal.  Brogdon is a more equivalent level player but he is even older than Saric is. Maker is a defensive specialist. Parker is always hurt.

I'd take Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz over Giannis every single day of the week even though Giannis is trending like the best player on either team.

You would take fultz over Giannis? That doesn't really make any sense. Giannis is probably the front runner for MVP right now. He is considered the most valuable asset in the league by many given his age and production. The bucks would probably not trade Gianni's for fultz and Covington and saric. combined. Very interesting take

You misread what I said.  I probably could have put it clearer, but when I say Giannis is trending like the best player on either team, it should be pretty obvious what I was intending to say i.e. that the 3 players from Philly are better than Giannis alone and those are the only 4 players that really have HOF level talent (not saying they will all be HOFers, just they have that talent).

I don't think Fultz has anymore hall of fame talent than Parker or Middletown at this point. I am a really big fan of Embiid and Simmons, but Fultz is not even in the same ballpark as those guys. He was the 8th ranked recruit coming out of high school (not a clear number 1 like Simmons or even a clear top 3 like Brown). He then rode an injury shortened season on a bad team, some impressive measurables and game tape to a number 1 pick. He now again looks like the 5th or 6th best guy in this class. Unless you are saying the top 7 guys in every draft have "HOF talent" and only one or two of them makes it, that is a ridiculous label for Fultz at this point. I say it is 50 50 whether he is ever better than Bledsoe is now (fringe all-star)

[celticsclay]

Milwaukee will be our major competition in the east for a long time. I知 worried about them more than Philly.

I still think Philly poses more of a long term threat because they have a lot more potential top end talent.  I mean Milwaukee is pretty much Giannis and maybe Parker (if he ever stays healthy) as every year all star level players (or better in the case of Giannis).  Philly has Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, and maybe even Saric with that sort of potential as well a lot of solid depth.

Philly will not be able to keep those 4 and fill out their team. Especially with Covington getting big money. Saric will be the odd man out.

Saric had a nice game but it is a bit ludicrous that some people are acting like he is a future star cause he put up some points on Philly when they were tanking hard last year. Even the Philly fans acknowledge he is a role player. He shot 41% from the field last year and is down to 38% this year. He is averaging 10 and 5 with as many turnovers as assists. By comparison when KO was 23 he was averaging 10 and 4 on 45% shooting. When Mirotic came over at 24 he averaged 10 and 5 on 40% shooting also.

When people start talking about Saric as some big star I really don't understand if they just saw a few garbage time games last year or think he is like 3-4 years younger than he is.... it really is confusing. Meanwhile a player like Middletown averaging 19, 6 and 5 on 42% shooting with better defense is a nobody...

I didn't mention Middleton because he isn't mich different than Covington (different skill set but similar level of player).  Bledsoe is a solid player but I don't expect him to be there long term nor him to be the level of player he is now in 2 or 3 years when this sort of debate matters.

Saric is 23 but is just in his 2nd year.  He has upped his 3 point shooting to 41% and his per 36 numbers are fairly solid for a 2nd year player.  Philly just plays a lot of players so minutes and stats are stunted a great deal.  Brogdon is a more equivalent level player but he is even older than Saric is. Maker is a defensive specialist. Parker is always hurt.

I'd take Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz over Giannis every single day of the week even though Giannis is trending like the best player on either team.

You would take fultz over Giannis? That doesn't really make any sense. Giannis is probably the front runner for MVP right now. He is considered the most valuable asset in the league by many given his age and production. The bucks would probably not trade Gianni's for fultz and Covington and saric. combined. Very interesting take

You misread what I said.  I probably could have put it clearer, but when I say Giannis is trending like the best player on either team, it should be pretty obvious what I was intending to say i.e. that the 3 players from Philly are better than Giannis alone and those are the only 4 players that really have HOF level talent (not saying they will all be HOFers, just they have that talent).

I don't think Fultz has anymore hall of fame talent than Parker or Middletown at this point. I am a really big fan of Embiid and Simmons, but Fultz is not even in the same ballpark as those guys. He was the 8th ranked recruit coming out of high school (not a clear number 1 like Simmons or even a clear top 3 like Brown). He then rode an injury shortened season on a bad team, some impressive measurables and game tape to a number 1 pick. He now again looks like the 5th or 6th best guy in this class. Unless you are saying the top 7 guys in every draft have "HOF talent" and only one or two of them makes it, that is a ridiculous label for Fultz at this point. I say it is 50 50 whether he is ever better than Bledsoe is now (fringe all-star)

I'll also add there were probably people that thought Okafor and Noel and were hall of fame talents at various points in their career. My friend Larbrd use to point out there was a 35 games stretch were Noel was putting up rebound, steal and block totals that only 3 other players had done ever (and I think they were all of famers including the admiral and hakeem). Jahill was averaging 17 and 7 as a rookie which also put him in very rare territory. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'll also add there were probably people that thought Okafor and Noel and were hall of fame talents at various points in their career. My friend Larbrd use to point out there was a 35 games stretch were Noel was putting up rebound, steal and block totals that only 3 other players had done ever (and I think they were all of famers including the admiral and hakeem). Jahill was averaging 17 and 7 as a rookie which also put him in very rare territory.

Yeah, but the rule is that putting up those numbers on a losing team is worth 1/5th of what it means to put up numbers on a winning team.

[nickagneta]

If Fultz has HOF talent then the Celtics are stacked with 5 players(Kyrie, Horford, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward) with HOF talent.

[celticsclay]

If Fultz has HOF talent then the Celtics are stacked with 5 players(Kyrie, Horford, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward) with HOF talent.

[celticsclay]

In the context of "hall of fame talent" for rookies this is an interesting article.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19681478/most-likely-all-stars-starters-role-players-top-2017-nba-draft

Note they don't even discuss hall of famer, but break down their chances of being an all-star, starter or role player based on their college stats.

[Moranis]

In the context of "hall of fame talent" for rookies this is an interesting article.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19681478/most-likely-all-stars-starters-role-players-top-2017-nba-draft

Note they don't even discuss hall of famer, but break down their chances of being an all-star, starter or role player based on their college stats.

they have Frank Ntilikina as the most likely all star out of everyone drafted, which just seems odd.  I'd be curious to see what this type of analysis yielded from a draft 6+ years ago, to see how accurate it actually ends up. 

[celticsclay]

In the context of "hall of fame talent" for rookies this is an interesting article.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19681478/most-likely-all-stars-starters-role-players-top-2017-nba-draft

Note they don't even discuss hall of famer, but break down their chances of being an all-star, starter or role player based on their college stats.

they have Frank Ntilikina as the most likely all star out of everyone drafted, which just seems odd.  I'd be curious to see what this type of analysis yielded from a draft 6+ years ago, to see how accurate it actually ends up.

Yeah I'm not saying this will be the most accurate, although I do find it interesting. It more underscores how ridiculous it is to call a rookie a hall of fame talent unless they are one of these once every 5 year guys that have been head and shoulders above others Shaq, Lebron, Simmons and perhaps Antonio Davis. Maybe 1 or 2 others I am forgetting. fultz clearly is not the in that category as evidence by him being ranked 8th in his class coming out of high school